When to start a new language?
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I don't think it's wrong to even learn two languages from the get go. It certainly makes you more of a programmer and less a slave of the syntax of a particular language. We have a multi language project here at work, and the manager was saying to me the other day that thinking in several languages at once seems to open up ideas and opportunities in all of them. I say go for it. Keep learning the C++, but learn C# as well. You'll find a lot of really nice features in C#, but the C++ standard library is still way cooler and more versatile than the .NET libraries. Either way, you'll be in a position to choose the best language for a task you undertake, instead of having to use the one language you know. ( Having said that, if I could only use one language, it would probably still be C++, even though I hardly use it nowadays ). Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 (which I HATE,HATE,HATE) :). If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 (which I HATE,HATE,HATE) :). If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
BlackDice wrote: Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 I have no comment :P Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Go for it. In fact, you might find you have to. Certainly in web-dev you have to know a range of languages from the get-go. Before the HTML-bashers step-in I can keep my former sentence without even including HTML; when I started my first web-dev job within the first week we figured out we needed to know VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. Now it's still TSQL and JavaScript but also C#, VB.NET and XSLT from the get-go. Then there is knowing the .NET Framework and the ASP.NET environment. Plus the other bits like HTML, CSS, XML etc. I have never been in a uni-language environment but maybe handling multiple environments and languages at once like in web-dev isn't normal. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. YEs, when I started here, I was strong in C++, but knew none of the other stuff. I still hate VBScript ( I hate classic ASP, simple as that ), but I don't mind a bit of JScript. I absolutely love XSLT, I'm about to start reading a book on XQuery, which Microsoft is going for over XSLT 2.0 in the next .NET release. I beg to differ though - I have not and I never will code a line of VB.NET. :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Go for it. In fact, you might find you have to. Certainly in web-dev you have to know a range of languages from the get-go. Before the HTML-bashers step-in I can keep my former sentence without even including HTML; when I started my first web-dev job within the first week we figured out we needed to know VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. Now it's still TSQL and JavaScript but also C#, VB.NET and XSLT from the get-go. Then there is knowing the .NET Framework and the ASP.NET environment. Plus the other bits like HTML, CSS, XML etc. I have never been in a uni-language environment but maybe handling multiple environments and languages at once like in web-dev isn't normal. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Since most of our applications are done as database-driven apps I also had to learn TSQL, MySql. I've even made a mock-website of my own using PHP, and then later with using an ISAPI extension DLL written in C++. I guess php is a programming language as well, although I really wasn't thinking of the HTML and SQL-related stuff. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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Since most of our applications are done as database-driven apps I also had to learn TSQL, MySql. I've even made a mock-website of my own using PHP, and then later with using an ISAPI extension DLL written in C++. I guess php is a programming language as well, although I really wasn't thinking of the HTML and SQL-related stuff. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
>SQL-related stuff. I have to say that "knowing" TSQL can make a huge difference. So many things you will try and tackle in say PHP or VBScript that when you know how to do it in TSQL makes more sense and works a lot better. It isn't a nice language at all though, I cringe everytime I have to do an SP. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
Multi-language programmers are needed in a few industries. Even an archaic language comes in handy to translate code out of. Mult-language (programming language of course) translation is one of my specialities. Of course, english is not, and it is the only human language I know. :doh: Learn at least the basics of each language before you move on. If you are comfortable, you can keep adding languages. But beware! non-use/non-practice will mean easy forgetting of your new languages.... so if you add too much, you may loose more than you gain. Only you will know where that limit is. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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>SQL-related stuff. I have to say that "knowing" TSQL can make a huge difference. So many things you will try and tackle in say PHP or VBScript that when you know how to do it in TSQL makes more sense and works a lot better. It isn't a nice language at all though, I cringe everytime I have to do an SP. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
T-SQL = The worst of VB + The worst of PASCAL. :) But I agree, knowing it well can be a real time saver and it's just better practice (than having to tie database dependent logic into your app). Jeremy Falcon
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
well, I never meant to imply that I would ever be finished. I'll probably be still learning C++ 5 years from now :) If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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I might check it out; the C# book I have is a little outdated. Also, I have the "Visual C++ .Net Bible" as well as "Extending MFC Applications using the .Net Framework" by Tom Archer which I also think are excellent books. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
nice read, thx for link. I most like this part: When you're the worst, you learn what the masters do, and you learn what they don't like to do (because they make you do it for them). :-D David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
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well, I never meant to imply that I would ever be finished. I'll probably be still learning C++ 5 years from now :) If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
well, I never meant to imply you thought you would. I just thought it was an interesting essay. ;)
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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BlackDice wrote: Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 I have no comment :P Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: I have no comment :laugh: - Nick Parker
My Blog | My Articles -
BlackDice wrote: Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 I have no comment :P Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: I have no comment Knowing VB and VFP coders, so do his code. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
1 day or less to learn, a lifetime to master. One day is enough to fool management. Within a week you should know enough that experts need time to figure out that you only have a week. Everything other than individual syntax you already know about programing applies somehow to any other language. C# is not different enough from C++ that you should count it though. You should focus on Assembly (doesn't matter which processor), Scheme (Any LISP, there are some good books on scheme which is why I recomend it), and other very different languages. There are lessens on knowing both of them that will really help your programing. C# will not give you great insights into how to make a computer tick that C++ can't give you. (this is a generalization, and like all it is not true) Spend time in languages that will give you something completely different.
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: If you are learning C# may I recommend Inside C# 2nd Edition by Tom Archer (cpian too nonetheless). In fact i'll be giving a couple copies away at my next C# talk. Matt, Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking???
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: If you are learning C# may I recommend Inside C# 2nd Edition by Tom Archer (cpian too nonetheless). In fact i'll be giving a couple copies away at my next C# talk. Matt, Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking???
Robert Scott wrote: Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking??? No kidding, if there were a 3rd edition with C#2.0 dropped in I'd definitely buy it. Matt Newman
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