The criticism starts already
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Nice to see the UN performing as effectively as usual. Immediate griping about the US efforts to help. Amazing how they can sit on their hands and wring them at the same time. http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041228%2F0908852820.htm&sc=1152&photoid=20041227DCLJ102[^] Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: Nice to see the UN performing as effectively as usual. Immediate griping about the US efforts to help. Amazing how they can sit on their hands and wring them at the same time. 60,000 people dead, a great many more injured and homeless, and what is the big issue here? The man in charge of organising humanitarian relief tries to goad rich nations (not specifically the US) into making larger contributions. Shame on him. Where is that man's sense of perspective? John Carson Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. Oscar Wilde
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David Wulff wrote: Many Europeans... well, some vocal ones that have a CodeProject membership and, it seems, strong political views of one kind or another. It all comes down to politics in end A fair and truthful assement I would say. My perspective is skewed I have admit, I see many things that my country has done wrong and needs to deal with, slavery, racism, how we treated the natives to name a few. But on the other hand most nations (and people) have had to deal with these same problems, and not always well. When I see the power that the US has amassed in the form of its economy and its military, I have to believe that we are on the balance pretty good world citizens, clumsy on occasion, but in general we mean well. In history thats something that has been relatively rare IMHO. :rose: Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
I don't think it is as rare as you say - almost every bad decision through history was based on good intentions for at least one group of people and history is always written by the victor. Other than that though you won't get any argument from me - I've been saying the same thing to closed ears for ever.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: If I call somebody dumb several times and after having it repeated that person starts bickering, who do you believe is at fault? A nice try, but that really isn't happening here. Jeremy Falcon wrote: You maybe be right. I'll have to pay more attention to that. I have a lot of time for useless things like that. Jeremy Falcon wrote: But, I do believe that people love to complain about the US on CP. And, I draw my conclusions from that. If you look at these complaints, how many of them are actually saying what you interpret them as? I think we must be browsing different web sites here. The counter-complaints are very real however. :suss: Jeremy Falcon wrote: Well, I choose not to believe it. I believe the mind is more complex than that, and there could be plenty of reasons that bring us to a point to say something. Which means, those words could have many different underlying meanings. If that is your belief then would it not be a good practise to start asking for clarifications of fact before making assumptions? You know, with rose tinted glasses and all.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
A nice try, but that really isn't happening here. But it is. People continually insult the US (whether or not you believe it's in my head) and I respond to it. As in this case, it's like the boy who cried wolf, mixed with a lack of understanding about the word "western" in this context. And granted, there could've been other lack of understandings. But, rarely do I have someone come back with a rebuttal that disproves it -- which only fuels the initial assumptions. Also, by admiting the fact of a possibly of fault (regardless of who it may be) begs me to deliver the point that one can logically conclude that even you may be wrong. If you look at these complaints, how many of them are actually saying what you interpret them as? Well, I don't know a ratio, but all things considered most of those complaints are plainly stated. It's kinda difficult (but not impossible) to misunderstand them. If that is your belief then would it not be a good practise to start asking for clarifications of fact before making assumptions? You know, with rose tinted glasses and all. It's just that, most people don't even realize it themselves. Also, some people are just willing to argue without giving deeper thoughts to much thought. Call me lazy, but I don't really want to have to drill a point out of somebody every time. Jeremy Falcon
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A nice try, but that really isn't happening here. But it is. People continually insult the US (whether or not you believe it's in my head) and I respond to it. As in this case, it's like the boy who cried wolf, mixed with a lack of understanding about the word "western" in this context. And granted, there could've been other lack of understandings. But, rarely do I have someone come back with a rebuttal that disproves it -- which only fuels the initial assumptions. Also, by admiting the fact of a possibly of fault (regardless of who it may be) begs me to deliver the point that one can logically conclude that even you may be wrong. If you look at these complaints, how many of them are actually saying what you interpret them as? Well, I don't know a ratio, but all things considered most of those complaints are plainly stated. It's kinda difficult (but not impossible) to misunderstand them. If that is your belief then would it not be a good practise to start asking for clarifications of fact before making assumptions? You know, with rose tinted glasses and all. It's just that, most people don't even realize it themselves. Also, some people are just willing to argue without giving deeper thoughts to much thought. Call me lazy, but I don't really want to have to drill a point out of somebody every time. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: But it is. People continually insult the US (whether or not you believe it's in my head) Yes, I do believe you are finding insults where there are none. It is just that; nothing more. If you respond to a genuine insult then fine, I won't join in, but with the frequency of this sort of thing it comes across very strongly that you are looking for cause to complain rather than wanting to address any legitimate complaints (and yes - there are some here occasionally). It isn't just me that thinks this, more often than not I am introduced to one of these threads by other people IM'ing me and saying "is it just me?" Jeremy Falcon wrote: All things considered most of those complaints are plainly stated. It's kinda difficult (but not impossible) to misunderstand them. And yet this conversation has happened how many times now? And how many more times will it happen again? You say can't be bothered to, but maybe we do need to adopt a system of asking for clarification on all points before inferring things... because right now (as every time before) you are not addressing what I am asking you and I am not getting anything new from you to ask about. It is as if we are having two entirely different conversations. Every reply from either of us should be "Yes, I know" by now. :wtf:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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We don't give, people complain we're stingy. We do give, people complain about the national debt. What a world we live in. On top of what Powell said, the US has also forgiven more debt than most. What a crazy world we live in. Oh the US is only giving $15 mil. We need money and don't get it -- blame the US. The US has money -- blame the US. Oh, look at the debt of those who can't keep it in check -- blame the US. The list goes on. And, on top of that. Of course, someone voted you a one. It's to be expected though. Jeremy Falcon
Just trying to be pragmatic about the whole thing here, but what if all the figures about who gives what and who writes of what debt are expressed as a percentage of GDP. That way, it becomes clear who is paying their share and who isn't.
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Doug Goulden wrote: Nice to see the UN performing as effectively as usual. Immediate griping about the US efforts to help. Amazing how they can sit on their hands and wring them at the same time. 60,000 people dead, a great many more injured and homeless, and what is the big issue here? The man in charge of organising humanitarian relief tries to goad rich nations (not specifically the US) into making larger contributions. Shame on him. Where is that man's sense of perspective? John Carson Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. Oscar Wilde
No one is trying to minimize the scope of this tragedy. It goes off the tragedy scale. But it is counterproductive at best for people to start pointing fingers at the US, or any other country, this early. Plus, it is extrodinarily offensive for there be any suggestion that we Americans are in even the most remote way responsible for any of this. People should concentrate on the tradgey and helping the survivors without using all this death as yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at US politics. "The Yahoos refused to be tamed."
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No one is trying to minimize the scope of this tragedy. It goes off the tragedy scale. But it is counterproductive at best for people to start pointing fingers at the US, or any other country, this early. Plus, it is extrodinarily offensive for there be any suggestion that we Americans are in even the most remote way responsible for any of this. People should concentrate on the tradgey and helping the survivors without using all this death as yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at US politics. "The Yahoos refused to be tamed."
Stan Shannon wrote: People should concentrate on the tradgey and helping the survivors without using all this death as yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at US politics. i agree. and i'd hope that people would try not to use it as a way to take cheap shots at other political bodies, as well (not accusing you, just sayin). there'll be time enough for that, later. Software | Cleek
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No one is trying to minimize the scope of this tragedy. It goes off the tragedy scale. But it is counterproductive at best for people to start pointing fingers at the US, or any other country, this early. Plus, it is extrodinarily offensive for there be any suggestion that we Americans are in even the most remote way responsible for any of this. People should concentrate on the tradgey and helping the survivors without using all this death as yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at US politics. "The Yahoos refused to be tamed."
Stan Shannon wrote: No one is trying to minimize the scope of this tragedy. That is right. In the minds of some people, it is already so minimal that the central issue for them is some imagined slight to US honour. Stan Shannon wrote: But it is counterproductive at best for people to start pointing fingers at the US, or any other country, this early. Plus, it is extrodinarily offensive for there be any suggestion that we Americans are in even the most remote way responsible for any of this. Nothing has been quoted to show that Egeland did single out the US. Stan Shannon wrote: People should concentrate on the tradgey and helping the survivors without using all this death as yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at US politics. As noted, there is no evidence that Egeland took any sort of shot at US politics. As for helping the survivors, the principal way to do that is with aid supplied by donors. So urging more donations is directly on the point. Whether Egeland would have achieved more with greater diplomacy is something that can be argued. Maybe he spoke as he did because he got a little emotional when contemplating the scale of the tragedy, unlike those whose focus never shifts from their central mission of defending the reputation of the US. John Carson Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. Oscar Wilde
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: But it is. People continually insult the US (whether or not you believe it's in my head) Yes, I do believe you are finding insults where there are none. It is just that; nothing more. If you respond to a genuine insult then fine, I won't join in, but with the frequency of this sort of thing it comes across very strongly that you are looking for cause to complain rather than wanting to address any legitimate complaints (and yes - there are some here occasionally). It isn't just me that thinks this, more often than not I am introduced to one of these threads by other people IM'ing me and saying "is it just me?" Jeremy Falcon wrote: All things considered most of those complaints are plainly stated. It's kinda difficult (but not impossible) to misunderstand them. And yet this conversation has happened how many times now? And how many more times will it happen again? You say can't be bothered to, but maybe we do need to adopt a system of asking for clarification on all points before inferring things... because right now (as every time before) you are not addressing what I am asking you and I am not getting anything new from you to ask about. It is as if we are having two entirely different conversations. Every reply from either of us should be "Yes, I know" by now. :wtf:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
because right now (as every time before) you are not addressing what I am asking you and I am not getting anything new from you to ask about. Well, from what I understand of it, you're saying "Jeremy you could be wrong sometimes." And, I'm saying the same thing; "David you could be wrong sometimes." So, if we agree on that, I'm willing to wager both of our hard heads can come to a succssful conclusion here. :) Jeremy Falcon
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because right now (as every time before) you are not addressing what I am asking you and I am not getting anything new from you to ask about. Well, from what I understand of it, you're saying "Jeremy you could be wrong sometimes." And, I'm saying the same thing; "David you could be wrong sometimes." So, if we agree on that, I'm willing to wager both of our hard heads can come to a succssful conclusion here. :) Jeremy Falcon
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Just trying to be pragmatic about the whole thing here, but what if all the figures about who gives what and who writes of what debt are expressed as a percentage of GDP. That way, it becomes clear who is paying their share and who isn't.
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That'd be ok, but the amount is not really what this was about for me. From what I understood of it, it seemed the US was being attacked in this article because of my lack of understanding of the word "western" in this context. I've already been straightened out on it though. Of course, not without the usual turmoil we so cherish here on CP. :) Jeremy Falcon
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LOL! Jeremy Falcon
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that article doesn't actually say that this one UN worker singled-out the US as being "stingy". from the quotes given, it sounds more like this person was saying all western nations are "stingy". maybe some other remarks singled-out the US... but they aren't in this article. and, in the NYT's[^] piece on this, they say:
Today, Mr. Egeland said his remarks had been misinterpreted, that he was not referring to any particular country, and that the initial American contribution "is one of the most generous pledges so far."
and, if you want to put things in perspective ... W's inauguration festival[^] is expected to cost, without security, 30 to 40 million dollars. so, we can do more, easily; and from what Powell said, we plan to. so, good for us. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: that article doesn't actually say that this one UN worker I think characterizing Jan as a UN worker is misleading. See my link above to get an idea of who this "worker" is and what role he plays in the UN. He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com The Recipe Project
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Being a UN official maybe the guy could speak to Kofi Annan and some of the other UN micreants who embezzled money from the Oil for Food program and pass a few bucks to these poor folks....... Just a thought <edit> In all fairness after looking at this site though, Norway where this guy is from does seem to contribute what seems to be generously based on their population. http://www.norway-un.org/NorwayandtheUN/NorwegianContributions/Norwegian+contributions+to+the+UN.htm[^] </edit> Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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David Wulff wrote: ...the USA just isn't that important in most people's lives... I've been told on many occassions here in the CP Soapbox by non-Americans (including Brits, Aussies and a certain South African) that the US and the POTUS have a significant affect on their daily lives. I tend to agree with you. I hope you'll jump in and set them straight the next time it arises. ;) [EDIT] Score: 1.0 (1 vote). It's stupid shit like this that makes me wonder why I even bother. :mad: Whomever voted this a one... be an adult and post a reply!!! [/EDIT] "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
In my opinion the POTUS has more effect on my daily life than my Prime Minister does. However the effect the PM has is miniscule since it doesn't matter which party is elected the PM will behave mostly the same. The POTUS however does have the power of the BUTTON, so I like to be informed who this power is being transfered to. - In day to day stuff Bush or Kerry would make pretty much the same decisions, although Bush will help me put money in my bank account by not creating as many new Tarrifs as Kerry. Bush also may have the ability to change the SC Justices in the US, and my country is likely to take a lead from their interpretations. - Thus I believe what we need to remember is what President we have now will effect future POTUSes day to day decisions. Regardz Colin J Davies Attention: It's finally arrived, The worlds first DSP.
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Ok. I was taught the continents of North and South America are referred to as the Americas, and the Western World refers to any country that isn't poor and/or communist. I assumed these were dictionary definitions, I didn't realise they were open for interpretation.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
South Africa is poor, communist inclined and yet considered a western country. I think it is more about how you conduct business, the media you have, the entertainment you import and your relations with the world. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project South-East Asia Disaster: How you can help Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "
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Just trying to be pragmatic about the whole thing here, but what if all the figures about who gives what and who writes of what debt are expressed as a percentage of GDP. That way, it becomes clear who is paying their share and who isn't.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: That way, it becomes clear who is paying their share and who isn't. Their share? Come on Colin, just who is assessing? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: That way, it becomes clear who is paying their share and who isn't. Their share? Come on Colin, just who is assessing? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: Their share? Come on Colin, just who is assessing? :confused:
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I agree... I just think this guy was speaking out of turn. In general the US has a pretty good record for antying up when help is needed. I don't think we needed to be mentioned as one of the guys examples. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?