Java creator trying to win the stupidest statement award of the year
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: JasonKnox wrote: whats the sense of bytecode if its bound to windows again? Umm... not sure if you are refering to .NET cause bytecode is java. .NET gets compiled to IL name it like you want. [MSA] Matt Newman wrote: I don't see the relevance of your statement read my second posting in this thread.
JasonKnox wrote: name it like you want. I'd rather stick with the proper definition - that way no one gets confused. If there is one thing that really hurts productivity in a project, that could very easily be fixed, is when people use different appellations for the same thing.
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: JasonKnox wrote: whats the sense of bytecode if its bound to windows again? Umm... not sure if you are refering to .NET cause bytecode is java. .NET gets compiled to IL name it like you want. [MSA] Matt Newman wrote: I don't see the relevance of your statement read my second posting in this thread.
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The only problem im having at this point is that i cant go conform with "java is for pregnent women". So is .NET for lesbians? If hes earning his money with MS i appreciate that but i dislike those crusades. Whats the point in telling me how to spell something? Is this some sort of an argument?
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I think you mean an 'h' instead of a 'p' in spat.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote: I think you mean an 'h' instead of a 'p' in spat. This is the Lounge - and I didn't want to get too scatalogical. I figured that substituting an act of expectoration would keep within the Lounge's PG guidelines.
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Can one block assemblies containing "unsafe" code in .NET? I believe you can block JNI stuff in Java. -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. I blog too now[^]
Yes, unsafe code is blocked by default if run remotely. That's the purpose of 'unsafe' blocks. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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[quote]Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and pregnant women. C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers.[/quote] Have u understood the sense of java? Do you think your no.300 clone of tic-tac-toe in your DOSbox means that your rule all those java coders out there? Ever thought of taking the best language in the right situation instead of trying to drag-and-drop your new gui in visual studio? And btw. whats the sense of bytecode if its bound to windows again? Safety? - why? - because of the cute c++ programmers that wont be able to code responsibly?
Looks like the Java guy lost the contest. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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My friend (pro-Linux) sent this URL to our class mailing list :- Huge security hole in .NET: Java creator [^] This was my reply :- What else would you expect a Java person to say :-) I primarily specialize in C++/CLI (formerly Managed C++) and the reason it's the most powerful .NET language is that it supports 3 compiler modes :- * pure managed (this produces IL is same as what C# or VB.NET or J# will produce and is safe/secure etc) * unmanaged (or native) - does not target the .NET runtime - produces PE executables and native DLLs * mixed mode - has managed and unmanaged code in the same assembly - the managed portions will run under .NET security, while the unmanaged components will run under normal Windows security. What Gosling is trying to say is probably that a mixed mode app/DLL is unsafe because it has portions of code that will run outside the security model of the CLR. But then the developer (when he's using unmanaged code) is taking responsibility for what he's doing. He'll have to make sure his native code blocks don't have any gaping holes. I don't believe any sane person can assume that this is a .NET issue - it's just that C++ offers one the option to shoot yourself in the foot. Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and little children***(see below). C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers. What's more, C# and VB.NET can use .NET code access security features to make sure that unmanaged transitions are disallowed. This means that when a C# program accesses a C++ generated DLL that may contain unmanaged code, the unmanaged code won't be allowed to execute - instead, a security exception gets thrown. I myself always look out for security holes and other issues with .NET and the CLR (since knowing them increases my market potential), but meaningless shit like what this Gosling fellow throws out makes me wanna puke. If he wants to make grand statements like that, he could at least have got the facts right. Nish Regards Nish *** [edit]I replaced
pregnant womenwithlittle childrenas I felt the usage ofpregnant womenwould give the impression that I am looking down upon women.[/edit]Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and pregnant women. C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers. (sigh) Do we really have to make our choice of language into some test of manhood? Real men use C++? (I can already hear the assembly language programmers questioning the "toughness" and manliness of C++ programmers.) I'm not a Java programmer, but I fully support making languages that help developers avoid problems, rather than castigating languages as being for the weak-minded when they do this. [Edit] I suppose I should say that I'm a C++/MFC programmer before someone accuses me of using VB. :~ [\Edit] ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
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Uhm.. there is no semantic difference between java bytecode and IL. IL is run in the .NET interpreter, and the java bytecode is run in the java virtual machine. Or have I missed something..? -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. I blog too now[^]
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Uhm.. there is no semantic difference between java bytecode and IL. IL is run in the .NET interpreter, and the java bytecode is run in the java virtual machine. Or have I missed something..? -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. I blog too now[^]
There's no such thing as an ".NET interpreter". .NET always executes code natively. The IL gets compiled into x86 instructions by the JITter before executing.
A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine. - Murphy's Law of Computing
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My friend (pro-Linux) sent this URL to our class mailing list :- Huge security hole in .NET: Java creator [^] This was my reply :- What else would you expect a Java person to say :-) I primarily specialize in C++/CLI (formerly Managed C++) and the reason it's the most powerful .NET language is that it supports 3 compiler modes :- * pure managed (this produces IL is same as what C# or VB.NET or J# will produce and is safe/secure etc) * unmanaged (or native) - does not target the .NET runtime - produces PE executables and native DLLs * mixed mode - has managed and unmanaged code in the same assembly - the managed portions will run under .NET security, while the unmanaged components will run under normal Windows security. What Gosling is trying to say is probably that a mixed mode app/DLL is unsafe because it has portions of code that will run outside the security model of the CLR. But then the developer (when he's using unmanaged code) is taking responsibility for what he's doing. He'll have to make sure his native code blocks don't have any gaping holes. I don't believe any sane person can assume that this is a .NET issue - it's just that C++ offers one the option to shoot yourself in the foot. Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and little children***(see below). C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers. What's more, C# and VB.NET can use .NET code access security features to make sure that unmanaged transitions are disallowed. This means that when a C# program accesses a C++ generated DLL that may contain unmanaged code, the unmanaged code won't be allowed to execute - instead, a security exception gets thrown. I myself always look out for security holes and other issues with .NET and the CLR (since knowing them increases my market potential), but meaningless shit like what this Gosling fellow throws out makes me wanna puke. If he wants to make grand statements like that, he could at least have got the facts right. Nish Regards Nish *** [edit]I replaced
pregnant womenwithlittle childrenas I felt the usage ofpregnant womenwould give the impression that I am looking down upon women.[/edit]Yea, Nish. You tell 'em what-for! (A vote of 5 for you) Jerry He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com DotNetGroup.org
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There's no such thing as an ".NET interpreter". .NET always executes code natively. The IL gets compiled into x86 instructions by the JITter before executing.
A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine. - Murphy's Law of Computing
Yeah that's true, but I thought Java also now has a JIT, so I think the argument that they are semantically similar still holds.
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[quote]Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and pregnant women. C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers.[/quote] Have u understood the sense of java? Do you think your no.300 clone of tic-tac-toe in your DOSbox means that your rule all those java coders out there? Ever thought of taking the best language in the right situation instead of trying to drag-and-drop your new gui in visual studio? And btw. whats the sense of bytecode if its bound to windows again? Safety? - why? - because of the cute c++ programmers that wont be able to code responsibly?
Is there any possible reasonable response to what you just posted? Jerry He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com DotNetGroup.org
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Not to mention punctuation...
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
Josh, I don't think you should be the one to talk about punctuation. :rolleyes:
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and pregnant women. C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers. (sigh) Do we really have to make our choice of language into some test of manhood? Real men use C++? (I can already hear the assembly language programmers questioning the "toughness" and manliness of C++ programmers.) I'm not a Java programmer, but I fully support making languages that help developers avoid problems, rather than castigating languages as being for the weak-minded when they do this. [Edit] I suppose I should say that I'm a C++/MFC programmer before someone accuses me of using VB. :~ [\Edit] ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
Brit wrote: [Edit] I suppose I should say that I'm a C++/MFC programmer before someone accuses me of using VB. [\Edit] Too late. I was just in the restroom down that hall and noticed that someone had already marked one of the stalls with a message claiming you use VB. Sorry, Dude. Jerry He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com DotNetGroup.org
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Josh, I don't think you should be the one to talk about punctuation. :rolleyes:
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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Java won't let you do that - Java is probably meant for babies and pregnant women. C++ is targetted at tougher people - or rather tougher programmers. (sigh) Do we really have to make our choice of language into some test of manhood? Real men use C++? (I can already hear the assembly language programmers questioning the "toughness" and manliness of C++ programmers.) I'm not a Java programmer, but I fully support making languages that help developers avoid problems, rather than castigating languages as being for the weak-minded when they do this. [Edit] I suppose I should say that I'm a C++/MFC programmer before someone accuses me of using VB. :~ [\Edit] ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
Brit wrote: (sigh) Do we really have to make our choice of language into some test of manhood? Real men use C++? (I can already hear the assembly language programmers questioning the "toughness" and manliness of C++ programmers.) I wasn't trying to do a "C++ is for tough people" thing - I was saying that relative to Java, C++ is targetted at a far tougher audience. Nish
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Yea, Nish. You tell 'em what-for! (A vote of 5 for you) Jerry He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com DotNetGroup.org
Toasty0 wrote: Yea, Nish. You tell 'em what-for! (A vote of 5 for you) :-D
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:-O ...
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
:laugh::laugh::laugh: "If it's Snowbird season, why can't we shoot them?" - Overheard in a bar in Bullhead City
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Can one block assemblies containing "unsafe" code in .NET? I believe you can block JNI stuff in Java. -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. I blog too now[^]
On the "Administrative Tools", you have "Microsoft .NET Framework Configuration". There, you can configure everything about .NET security: you have a great granularity and you can even say how the same assembly should execute when invoked from different assemblies or different sources (disk, network, internet, etc). Yes, even I am blogging now!