C# Downgrade

Christopher Lord

Why exactly are people saying that C# is a downgrade? At first, it looks like childish fear of change, but I figured I would ask if there where any real reasons a lot of you call it a downgrade.

Its a tool that appears to be good for accomplishing a certain job. Is a screwdriver a downgrade from a hammer? No, almost all that can be done with a hammer can be done with a screwdriver, except perhaps bashing your own head in. And screws have an advantage of being able to do OTHER things as well, such as offering better security, fastening a wider range of materials, and so on. Any construction contractor would LAUGH THEIR ASSES OFF if you made this claim about hammers. Are computer professionals just more ideological about tools?

C++ and C# are like this, it appears. It BOGGLES me to think that people consider one a downgrade of another, can you folks who hold this explain your position so that I can evaluate this idea? // Rock

George

CLaW wrote: Why exactly are people saying that C# is a downgrade? Because: CLaW wrote: Its a tool that appears to be good for accomplishing a certain job. While as the Bjarne Stroustrup says: C++ is a general purpose programming language (...) Obviously it's a downgrade to go from the general purpose language to the one that is only good for certain job. Your example of hammer and screwdriver is "screwed", because it doesn't fit. It's more like a choice between a screwdriver toolset that can operate any screws and the screwdriver that can only operate certain screws (while can't operate the others). Obviously in the real life you never know what kind of screws you will have to deal with and so it's always better to be prepared and have the whole toolset than a limited functionality single screwdriver. CLaW wrote: It BOGGLES me to think that people consider one a downgrade of another, can you folks who hold this explain your position so that I can evaluate this idea? You seem to have evaluated the idea beforehead. Can't put more water into the filled already cup. My guess is that you are just trolling...

Christian Graus

A screwdriver is a downgrade from a toolbox that contains screwdrivers. This is a more accurate summation of the difference between C++ and C#. What can C# do that C++ does not ? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

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Nish Nishant

****Christian Graus wrote: What can C# do that C++ does not ? Nothing. Though if the question were reversed, there must be several thing C++ can do that C# cannot! Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut

Nish Nishant

CLaW wrote: Why exactly are people saying that C# is a downgrade? People mean that it is an intellectual downgrade. It's a bit like asking a 7 year who can multiply to do addition. He is then doing an intellectual downgrade. Of course multiplication is basically repeated addition, but I hope you got my point. My choice of analogy might have been rather weak. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut

Nish Nishant

Good post George. If VS.NET supported CodeDOM for C++ then nobody would even be using C# now :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut

BlameUS

And screws have an advantage of being able to do OTHER things as well, such as offering better security,... One more thing it does better than a hammer: break into other peoples' houses (security) ;P

Christopher Lord

George wrote: Obviously it's a downgrade to go from the general purpose language to the one that is only good for certain job. But the job it does do, it does far better than the general tool. You can use a hammer to put a screw in, but why when you can use a tool designed to solve the problem. So its an ideological thing then? General-use tools are better than more focused tools all the time, so the focused tools are not needed? I would prefer building a site up from a focused language like ASP or C# over C++, even factoring in the extra performance. George wrote: My guess is that you are just trolling... Its a valid question with which I intend to use to understand why you think c# is a downgrade. I see it as a more focused tool, with which one can solve a sub-set of problems more efficently, just like a screwdriver So the analogy is still valid. // Rock

Nish Nishant

Well all your arguments are also applicable to VB then. Would you then say that moving to VB is NOT a downgrade too? Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut

Christopher Lord

****Christian Graus wrote: What can C# do that C++ does not ? It allows the programmer to do a subset of problems with greater ease out of the box. This is a valid reason to choose c# for a project. // Rock

Nish Nishant

VB makes it even more easier, especially VB.NET. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut

Christian Graus

Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Nothing. Though if the question were reversed, there must be several thing C++ can do that C# cannot! Generics for a start. Optimised memory management, because it's under your control. I could go on, but we both know what I'm going to say... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz

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Christian Graus

CLaW wrote: It allows the programmer to do a subset of problems with greater ease out of the box. This is a valid reason to choose c# for a project. So you agree my analogy is a better one than yours - it's capable of doing a subset of the things C++ can, with greater ease ( assuming the programmer is inexperienced, otherwise I'm sure they'd have some code in their toolkit to ease the difference ). As Stroustrup says making programming easy by stopping people from making the common mistakes does not teach them to program, it only increases the size of the istakes they eventually make. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

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Christopher Lord

That depends on what your going to use it for of course. VB is good for rapid prototyping, and I have used it for this purpose with good results. Its also a good gateway language into programming in general, and many people I know, including myself, learned to program from some version of basic. It is a downgrade from C++, however, in terms of performance and 'closeness' to the metal. But really, it is not a downgrade across the board, is it now? // Rock

Christian Graus

kfc wrote: such as offering better security,... Better security from M$ ? Bwhahahahahahahahaha !!!! Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz

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Christopher Lord

Ah yes, but it isnt the same syntax, making it less efficent. I always put in ;'s in ASP, for example, and must remove them afterwards. // Rock

Christopher Lord

****Christian Graus wrote: So you agree my analogy is a better one than yours - it's capable of doing a subset of the things C++ can, with greater ease Well, it may be better for you, and mine for myself. But the idea is the same, really. A screwdriver solves a sub-set of the problems a hammer can solve by integrating many of the techniques hammer users typically employ (I know, thats not completely acurate in the real world of screws and nails, but look at the underlying statement please). ****Christian Graus wrote: assuming the programmer is inexperienced, otherwise I'm sure they'd have some code in their toolkit to ease the difference even still. I am not going to write a full c++ toolkit for things that already exist (hopefully...) fully tested by a huge company. After many years, I might get a piece-meal collection of classes that I always use, but for small projects that dont need the generality of C++, it doesnt make sense to use it, inexperienced or not... ****Christian Graus wrote: As Stroustrup says making programming easy by stopping people from making the common mistakes does not teach them to program, it only increases the size of the istakes they eventually make. And I Agree. // Rock

BlameUS

********* kfc wrote: such as offering better security,... Better security from M$ ? Bwhahahahahahahahaha !!!! ********* It was taken from the original post, I didn't write that :((

Christian Graus

CLaW wrote: Well, it may be better for you, and mine for myself. But the idea is the same, really. A screwdriver solves a sub-set of the problems a hammer can solve by integrating many of the techniques hammer users typically employ (I know, thats not completely acurate in the real world of screws and nails, but look at the underlying statement please). The underlying statement works better when you compare a toolkit to a screwdriver - a hammer cannot drive in a screw without making a mess of it. But we're splitting hairs. CLaW wrote: Christian Graus wrote: As Stroustrup says making programming easy by stopping people from making the common mistakes does not teach them to program, it only increases the size of the istakes they eventually make. And I Agree. So you regard C# as useful as a source of entertainment ? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz

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Christian Graus

I know, I just didn't notice it until you brought it to my attention... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001

Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz

I live in Bob's HungOut now