VS.NET Team System versions
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Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/compare/[^] Here is a link to the features - although it seems awfully slow: http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/chart/[^] mass confusion to follow... tim Founder, TMurgent Technologies www.tmurgent.com tmangan@tmurgent.com
When you upgrade MSDN Universal you only get one choice, Architect, Developer or Tester, but they each have features I use and I sure can't afford $10k!!
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Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/compare/[^] Here is a link to the features - although it seems awfully slow: http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/chart/[^] mass confusion to follow... tim Founder, TMurgent Technologies www.tmurgent.com tmangan@tmurgent.com
tmangan wrote: Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? I think Team System is one of those products where if you need to look at the prices, it isn't for you. :rolleyes:
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
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tmangan wrote: Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? I think Team System is one of those products where if you need to look at the prices, it isn't for you. :rolleyes:
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
Browsing their web site I came to the conclusion that this product isn't bought by developers anyway. So why bother?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
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tmangan wrote: Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? I think Team System is one of those products where if you need to look at the prices, it isn't for you. :rolleyes:
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
...one suspects you don't pay for it out of your own pocket then... But seriously, a 2x to 5x increase in price for an annual subscription is a bit much. It is a real kick in the (you know) to the independent developer. I need those premium packages to test against. Maybe Chris M can get us a really sweet deal? You know, something like $3000, but in canadian!;) tim Founder, TMurgent Technologies www.tmurgent.com tmangan@tmurgent.com
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tmangan wrote: Forget the features. DID YOU SEE THE PRICES? I think Team System is one of those products where if you need to look at the prices, it isn't for you. :rolleyes:
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
Shog9 wrote: I think Team System is one of those products where if you need to look at the prices, it isn't for you. No kidding. My company had already been clamping down on MSDN subscriptions - making a lot of developers use the less expensive professional if they didn't absolutely NEED Universal.... even before the huge price hike. Now any hopes of ever having a Universal subscription are pretty much doomed. :sigh: The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
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...one suspects you don't pay for it out of your own pocket then... But seriously, a 2x to 5x increase in price for an annual subscription is a bit much. It is a real kick in the (you know) to the independent developer. I need those premium packages to test against. Maybe Chris M can get us a really sweet deal? You know, something like $3000, but in canadian!;) tim Founder, TMurgent Technologies www.tmurgent.com tmangan@tmurgent.com
As I understood it, and looking at the features matrix, the current MSDN Universal subscription maps to the 'Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition With MSDN Premium' (now there's a catchy name). That costs $2,499/year new and $1,999/year for a renewal. Isn't that the same price you currently pay for the same offering? :confused: Those Team System lifecycle tools whilst they look nice on paper are a new offering, hence why Microsoft are offering a higher level subscription free to existing MSDN Universal subscribers when they renew to get them started. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/[^] MSDN Universal never gave you every product Microsoft made anyway, so I don't see what all the fuss is about? Or is it the whole ego thing? "I have the most expensive car on the block so I must be the best developer..." Tool envy - the geek version of penis envy. :-D
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Has anyone come across a nice listing of the features included in each version of VS.NET Team System? I'm trying to plan what version would be best, Architect or Developer, but can't seem to find any good info to compare them.
I just saw this NTeam[^] NTeam will be an open source alternative to the upcoming Visual Studio Team System(r) and will utilize many existing open source applications such as NUnit, NAnt, and will link with various open source project, issue, and task management applications. NTeam will integrate with both proprietary and open source IDEs and will target small- and mid-sized businesses. I wonder if anything will happen with it.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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As I understood it, and looking at the features matrix, the current MSDN Universal subscription maps to the 'Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition With MSDN Premium' (now there's a catchy name). That costs $2,499/year new and $1,999/year for a renewal. Isn't that the same price you currently pay for the same offering? :confused: Those Team System lifecycle tools whilst they look nice on paper are a new offering, hence why Microsoft are offering a higher level subscription free to existing MSDN Universal subscribers when they renew to get them started. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/[^] MSDN Universal never gave you every product Microsoft made anyway, so I don't see what all the fuss is about? Or is it the whole ego thing? "I have the most expensive car on the block so I must be the best developer..." Tool envy - the geek version of penis envy. :-D
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
OK. It does look like you are right; I skipped a line and the current universal is equivalent to VS5PEw/MSDN Premium. So at the same price that's OK. I'll go back to my Yugo now.:suss: tim Founder, TMurgent Technologies www.tmurgent.com tmangan@tmurgent.com
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I just saw this NTeam[^] NTeam will be an open source alternative to the upcoming Visual Studio Team System(r) and will utilize many existing open source applications such as NUnit, NAnt, and will link with various open source project, issue, and task management applications. NTeam will integrate with both proprietary and open source IDEs and will target small- and mid-sized businesses. I wonder if anything will happen with it.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
"will be" is always a depressing phrase to see on a project page. There's no good reason i can see that this couldn't be done, and i'm sure a fair number of groups have their own internal systems set up using such tools... but the fact that this project has (apparently) four members and yet none of them has brought even a basic system to the table makes me wonder how much experience any of them have with using and integrating such tools. This sounds like more of a reaction to Microsoft's pricing than the usual "scratch an itch" motivation. Still, might be worth watching for a time. OT, but i'm reminded once again how awful the gotdotnet project page layout is. A big title area, two side bars, gobs of whitespace where it isn't needed, and then tiny, tiny fonts for the actual project info... not to mention the project nav thrown right in on the site nav sidebar. Yeack. :rolleyes:
Shog9
I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...
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When you upgrade MSDN Universal you only get one choice, Architect, Developer or Tester, but they each have features I use and I sure can't afford $10k!!
Team system is aimed at large enterprises. MS say for teams of 5+, however others have said it is aimed at companies whose development teams are really 20+ but realistically much more than that. The reason for the different versions is that in sufficiently large teams you get people with only one role. In smaller teams one person typically has more than one role.
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As I understood it, and looking at the features matrix, the current MSDN Universal subscription maps to the 'Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition With MSDN Premium' (now there's a catchy name). That costs $2,499/year new and $1,999/year for a renewal. Isn't that the same price you currently pay for the same offering? :confused: Those Team System lifecycle tools whilst they look nice on paper are a new offering, hence why Microsoft are offering a higher level subscription free to existing MSDN Universal subscribers when they renew to get them started. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/[^] MSDN Universal never gave you every product Microsoft made anyway, so I don't see what all the fuss is about? Or is it the whole ego thing? "I have the most expensive car on the block so I must be the best developer..." Tool envy - the geek version of penis envy. :-D
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
But you know, after someone forks out $2,500, every time you turn around you will hear, that is only available in the super deluxe $10K model! It was nice when a developer could sell his car and buy a MSDN Universal and know he had just about everything worth while for development from MS. Now, if you want to be assured your are fully equipped, $10K out of your pocket. I mean, at a minimum, you are looking at VS Architect which is $5,500. I guess Bill needs to catch up to the Walton's family! Linux is sounding better by the day! While I say that as mostly humor, it has become a serious thought running around in my mind the last year or so and things like this just keeps it growing. Rocky <>< TechTV's ScreenSavers death blow![^]
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But you know, after someone forks out $2,500, every time you turn around you will hear, that is only available in the super deluxe $10K model! It was nice when a developer could sell his car and buy a MSDN Universal and know he had just about everything worth while for development from MS. Now, if you want to be assured your are fully equipped, $10K out of your pocket. I mean, at a minimum, you are looking at VS Architect which is $5,500. I guess Bill needs to catch up to the Walton's family! Linux is sounding better by the day! While I say that as mostly humor, it has become a serious thought running around in my mind the last year or so and things like this just keeps it growing. Rocky <>< TechTV's ScreenSavers death blow![^]
Rocky Moore wrote: Now, if you want to be assured your are fully equipped, $10K out of your pocket. I mean, at a minimum, you are looking at VS Architect which is $5,500. Why do you need the Team System tools, what will they give *us* that we don't already have ourselves? They are aimed very much for role-based development teams, and for those they are being sold as a new product which is going to be too specialised for most of us anyway. Hell, Microsoft are giving it away to current subscribers when they continue their subscriptions because they know that most developers really can't see a use for it. Tit-for-tat, MSDN Universal is just getting a new, less cool-sounding name, and being split into an option package rather than a single choice. More choice is better through, right? There are two products - MSDN (with the different levels, just as there are now but Universal is now called Premium), and VS.NET 2005 (with the Express, Professional and various Team editions). The MSDN components are exactly what we are used to, the only change is that VS.NET 2005 is being marketted as a pick-and-choose product. If you pick-and-choose the current MSDN Universal equivalent (That would be VS.NET 2005 Professional) then it costs exactly the same as it did before. If you want MSDN Enterprise Edition you just select VS.NET 2005 Professional and the MSDN Professional package. Again the same price as now. I must be really stupid because I just cannot see what the issue is here - at all! :~
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Rocky Moore wrote: Now, if you want to be assured your are fully equipped, $10K out of your pocket. I mean, at a minimum, you are looking at VS Architect which is $5,500. Why do you need the Team System tools, what will they give *us* that we don't already have ourselves? They are aimed very much for role-based development teams, and for those they are being sold as a new product which is going to be too specialised for most of us anyway. Hell, Microsoft are giving it away to current subscribers when they continue their subscriptions because they know that most developers really can't see a use for it. Tit-for-tat, MSDN Universal is just getting a new, less cool-sounding name, and being split into an option package rather than a single choice. More choice is better through, right? There are two products - MSDN (with the different levels, just as there are now but Universal is now called Premium), and VS.NET 2005 (with the Express, Professional and various Team editions). The MSDN components are exactly what we are used to, the only change is that VS.NET 2005 is being marketted as a pick-and-choose product. If you pick-and-choose the current MSDN Universal equivalent (That would be VS.NET 2005 Professional) then it costs exactly the same as it did before. If you want MSDN Enterprise Edition you just select VS.NET 2005 Professional and the MSDN Professional package. Again the same price as now. I must be really stupid because I just cannot see what the issue is here - at all! :~
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
In the last MSDN universail I had, they included VS.NET architect package, not just the developers edition. This also included such things as Visio which the developer edition did not. Now for the "architect" version (which many of us small developers wear multiple hats), it is $5,500. Rocky <>< TechTV's ScreenSavers death blow![^]
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In the last MSDN universail I had, they included VS.NET architect package, not just the developers edition. This also included such things as Visio which the developer edition did not. Now for the "architect" version (which many of us small developers wear multiple hats), it is $5,500. Rocky <>< TechTV's ScreenSavers death blow![^]
You get VS.NET 2003 Enterprise Architect Edition with MSDN Universal. That doesn't directly relate to the new products though, don't get confused by the fact they both have 'Architect' in their name. According to the information on the Microsoft web site, all that stuff is included in MSDN Premium, which can be bought with VS.NET 2005 Professional for the same price as MSDN Universal. All the new 'architect' stuff seems to be related to their Dynamic Systems Initiative[^]. I.e. new products/technologies that no ISV is ever going to use.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flikrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen