Rich Programmer, Poor Programmer
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Why not just get a second job: there's nothing better than having parallel-jobs/experience on your CV. :-D Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Cheers, Simon I don't get paid to be intelligent.
simons wrote: Why not just get a second job I have tried to convice her to let me do this (An easy job like a checkout assistant at weekends etc), but she says she doesn't see enough of me already. simons wrote: Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Not sure where the nearest one is. But I'll look into it. simons wrote: I don't get paid to be intelligent But are you intelligent? ;P Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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simons wrote: Why not just get a second job I have tried to convice her to let me do this (An easy job like a checkout assistant at weekends etc), but she says she doesn't see enough of me already. simons wrote: Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Not sure where the nearest one is. But I'll look into it. simons wrote: I don't get paid to be intelligent But are you intelligent? ;P Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
Roger Allen wrote: but she says she doesn't see enough of me Are you able to do code work from home? Roger Allen wrote: But are you intelligent? Touche...Sometimes when I look at the choices I make, I wonder... :mad: :omg: :( Cheers, Simon If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in the universe of infinite possibilities, then we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that can not be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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xicoloko wrote: Leave your girlfriend Although this is an option (I have thought about it). I don't know if it will ever happen. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Currently, I live paycheck to paycheck which is very sad because i am well paid. When I was single 3 years ago I made alot less and had much more money than I do now. Since getting married, having 2 kids, buying a house, 2 cars and acquiring ~40k in medical bills I have managed to go from 9 months of paychecks in the bank to 0. On a positive note, however, my wife and I have starting saving a little each month again. We put it into an "Add-on-CD" so we can't touch it. Starting small can be so hard to do. We have cut up all of our credit cards except the AMEX which we must pay back at the end of each month. And YES, I am TERRIBLE with money. Giving me a credit card is like giving a sucidal man a loaded gun. My wife is actually better with the credit cards than I am. She is just deadly with a checkbook. She seems to have problems understanding that paycheck - (paycheck+2) is not a good formula for success. Matt Gullett
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Paul Watson wrote: sardine tin that is the Tube huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Cheers, Simon If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in the universe of infinite possibilities, then we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that can not be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
simons wrote: huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Just out here in London for a month on some new projects. Going back on the 3rd of Feb. To All Londoners, how the hell do you live in this dismal city? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Chris Maunder wrote: All I can say is: start saving. It is damned hard for us procrastinators Chris. My parents never taught me all this stuff and only once I found myself in the deep end did I really start to think "crap, I had better do something." How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Or are you, and I am cringing because I think this is true, just one of those very controlled (in a good way) kind of people who do it almost automatically? To you it is obvious and no trouble at all. As I said, these books and people can give all the advice they want, it is the application of it which is the difficult bit. How do those who do it, do it? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Reason #1: I never had any money and I hate scrounging. Reason #2: About 8 years ago I was cruising along like everyone else and not really enjoying my job (hydrological research). For some reason I was reading a .plan from one of the ID software guys and he had just packed up and left his job and was kicking around looking for something to do next. It was he who said it: 'always have 3-6 months survival money so that you always know in the back of your mind that you can get up and walk out of whatever job you're in' (or something like that). Basically he was saying that you should never be dependant on your job. It may be gone tomorrow, but even beyond that, never let your job own you (financially). Reason #3: When I left my job to start CodeProject, insurance agencies refused to give me income insurance and I couldn't afford health insurance. Basically I had to insure (and trust in) myself. cheers, Chris Maunder
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simons wrote: huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Just out here in London for a month on some new projects. Going back on the 3rd of Feb. To All Londoners, how the hell do you live in this dismal city? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
I think I am reasonably smart with my money. I agree with the general trend of start and save something. It does add up. Also split were the savings go. In corporate USA I place the bulk of retirement savings into my companies 401K tax deferred plan now at the max allowed of 8%. It started smaller 2% but then each year I would raise it with any salary adjustment. I never noticed the increase in my savings. Secondly I have an external taxed fund that I now put $100 a month in. I deliberately had any direct access not activated so I would have to go through the funds advisor to get to it. I still can but it takes 5 days. Lastly I have a short-term savings (poorer interest) but I can get to the money by driving to the banks ATM, medical, major purchases, etc. It is not in my checking account so it is a deliberate decision to get to it. All of the above are automatic deductions. It appears to work. This last year I purchased 2 cars (one for my daughter and one for my wife) and paid cash for both.
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I have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. I have found that since I am being paid more now (almost 2*), I am not saving at all. I still don't drink/smoke or go out. But there is one big difference, I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids. The food bills; clothes bills; Mortgage (which is not bad at all); and then her presents (she likes designer stuff - read Gucci/Armani/Cartier etc). Its the presents which are killing me off really. At the moment, I am just treading water, and thats with my yearly bonus and trading all my holidays in for cash. If I lost the girlfiend/kids, installed a paying lodger etc, I could be saving at about £15000 a year. But then love gets in the way. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
Roger Allen wrote: £15000 That's about $45,000 Oz. :omg: Us guys do some damn stupid things for :love: (but I admire you nonetheless ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder
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Paul Watson wrote: Do you live month to month? Not now - but then again I've been working full-time for less than a month :) But, I'll be damned if I spend the rest of my life desparately waiting for that next paycheck. There's no guaruntee that it will come, but there is a guaruntee that you're utterly screwed without it and that you'll need to work long past retirement age. The best way to figure out where your money is going: Go through two months and only use a credit card or debit card (easier said than done if you're not in America). This way, at the end of the month you get to see in excruciating detail exactly what you spend, where you spent it, and how much the $3 here and $2 there actually adds up to over the course of a month. Of course, don't forget to pay the credit card bill in full :) If that's not possible, though, I'd suggest taking a chunk of money out at the beginning of every week and only spending that, while saving the receipts of everything you buy. Then at the end of the week total up you're receipts and look at where your money is going. Doing this, I realized I was spending an extra $80 a month by getting a latte everyday. I reclaimed about $40 a month by foregoing to latte for a plain coffee... Whatever you do, make sure you can save alot of money over the next 20 or 30 years so that, when retirement age comes, you can actually spend each and every day relaxed and doing what you want to do :) -- Russell Morris AFLAC Software Research Center "WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.
Russell Morris wrote: while saving the receipts of everything you buy Funny story that. Whenever I am over here in London everything (food, travel, accomodation, snacks, clients etc.) is a company expense. With the Rand/Pound exchange rate I cannot afford to even pay for a packet of crisps without claiming back. But to claim back you need receipts and it has really built into me a great habit of getting reciepts for everything, even when I am back in SA. It HAS helped me a lot in seeing were my money is really going and what comparitvely are my problem areas. The other day I bought a 24p pack of WAlkers crisps. I asked for a reciept and the Pakistani tender guy laughed his head off. He stopped laughing though when he saw that I was serious... lol I am not welcome back there (cafe-in-da-wall at the Oval station.) Russell Morris wrote: Whatever you do, make sure you can save alot of money over the next 20 or 30 years so that, when retirement age comes, you can actually spend each and every day relaxed and doing what you want to do While that is a good idea, I am not willing to work for the next 20/30 years, not a chance :) I have to temper saving with investment with a bloody good business which brings in the money. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Roger Allen wrote: £15000 That's about $45,000 Oz. :omg: Us guys do some damn stupid things for :love: (but I admire you nonetheless ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder
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simons wrote: huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Just out here in London for a month on some new projects. Going back on the 3rd of Feb. To All Londoners, how the hell do you live in this dismal city? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Nobody lives in London, they commute in from the surronding areas. :-D Which part of London are you stuck in? Michael :-)
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Roger Allen wrote: £15000 That's about $45,000 Oz. :omg: Us guys do some damn stupid things for :love: (but I admire you nonetheless ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: That's about $45,000 Oz. Admittedly, I would only manage to save that if: 1: I stopped my impulse buying (I collect videos etc) 2: Lived off 8p cans of baked beans (would you like to socialise with someone who lived of that! X| phew!) Maybe I am just lucky in the way I live, that I would be able to save that kind of money (If I had the chance to) Chris Maunder wrote: Us guys do some damn stupid things for It was more desperation for me! ;P Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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xicoloko wrote: but what makes you hate London that much? I don't hate the place. It is an amazing pulsating heart of an empire. It is 1st world all the way. The business is great, the money is there and there is plenty to do. BUT I come from Cape Town, South Africa. A city with it's own mountain in the middle of it. With island beaches, forests, huge outdoor areas, hot days and the magnificent ocean. You can hike, camp, suntan OR you can go clubbing at night, dine at fine restaurants, watch movies etc. etc. I am not much of a social person. I like clubbing, but for the music and atmosphere. London is for social people. There is no real outdoor life (Kew Gardens does not count) and the only alternative to being a hermit is going to pubs, clubs, theatre, movies and restaurants. Thats it. Also I own a car back in Cape Town and I love to drive. I like being in control of my "transport." In london it is "wait for bus/tube/train, get on bus/tube/train, sit through ten stops, get off bus/tube/train, work, repeat." I think bottom line is that why would I want to live in London... no reason. CT has it all for me and I love it there. LO is not my type of city. I come from Africa, I need space and hot weather. LO has none of that. But saying all that to visit LO is AMAZING! I blew myself away the first three times I came here. Visited everything and anything. Such history and so much stuff to do. But once the tourist bit is done... well then you have to be a social animal to carry on enjoying it, and I can't abide by that. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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All I can say is: start saving. Get money taken out of your account automatically and into a managed fund or something. My rule of thumb is always have enough money put aside (working for you, but still available) so that if you lose your job tomorrow (or for some other reason are unable to generate income) you'll be OK for 3 months. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: so that if you lose your job tomorrow (or for some other reason are unable to generate income) you'll be OK for 3 months. Agreed... but I prefer to save for 6 months... "Good Jobs" are not so easy here in Brazil... Mauricio Teichmann Ritter Brazil mauricioritter@hotmail.com
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Nobody lives in London, they commute in from the surronding areas. :-D Which part of London are you stuck in? Michael :-)
Michael P Butler wrote: Nobody lives in London, they commute in from the surronding areas LOL true! I think of London though as one big seething mass of people with tube bits stuck between them. It reaches out to all the suburbs and gorges itself on them :) Michael P Butler wrote: Which part of London are you stuck in? Staying in Clapham Common and working at the Oval (all Northern Line.) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Roger Allen wrote: £15000 That's about $45,000 Oz. :omg: Us guys do some damn stupid things for :love: (but I admire you nonetheless ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder
That's why I appreciated my (ex?)-girlfriend. (She is away at Uni). Not only is she not interested in the latest designer fashions, but even if she was, she would much rather be earning her own income. She hates being financially dependant on people. Tha type of attitude definately works for me :) - Jason SonorkID: 100.12194 :bob:'s your uncle
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
I knew a man when I was growing up, a friend of my father's, who came here from Lebanon as a teen without a dime in his pocket. He retired at 40 as a multi-millionarre. His formula was simple. Take 10% a give it to God (he was a devout Christian). Take the next 10% and put it in savings. Live off of whatever is left. Every time his savings grew large enough to make a down payment on an investment property (ie, one that paid back a return) he bought it. It's a formula that I've seen in many books, and I know from watching this man over many years that it really does work. Yet I can't seem to make myself follow his sterling example.... Grrrr... Like most here, I live month to month, check to check. Possibly the only smart thing I've done is to enroll in the investment plan we have at work. In the US we have a plan called a 401K, named after the section of the Internal Revenue (Tax) code that defines it. We can have an amount taken out of our gross pay before taxes, and invest it in an approved plan - usually a mutual fund. The employer usually matches a portion - in my case 50% of what I contribute - and interest earned by the investment is not taxed until we begin to spend it. Despite the falling market of late, mine actually increased 10% last quarter! It amazes me that, knowing that our employer adds 50% to whatever we contribute, we still have employees who refuse to join! Things are turning around, though. I bought an accounting program - Quicken -to track income and expenses. I'm not yet disciplined enough to maintain it properly, but I'm getting there. What is a real eye-opener is the size of the Miscellaneous account each month. That's where the money for beer, darts, cigarettes, sodas, and such lies, and it's far too large! My goal is to reduce that to a minimum, and in doing so, I think I'll find a bonanza... By the way, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is an excellent read - I've got it, and I re-read it from time to time... A penny saved is a penny taxed...
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That's why I appreciated my (ex?)-girlfriend. (She is away at Uni). Not only is she not interested in the latest designer fashions, but even if she was, she would much rather be earning her own income. She hates being financially dependant on people. Tha type of attitude definately works for me :) - Jason SonorkID: 100.12194 :bob:'s your uncle
Jason Hooper wrote: That's why I appreciated my (ex?)-girlfriend. (She is away at Uni). Don't think like that or it may become that. Stay in touch. Jason Hooper wrote: She hates being financially dependant on people. Tha type of attitude definately works for me Janina is the exact same way with me. Our problem though is that I love to spend money on her. Plus she does not have a job yet (going into Varsity (Uni)) and so feels doubly bad about me paying her way. I don't mind though, if I have to spend my money on something then her and I are the top choices. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I'd probably fall in the 1st to 31st category. I finish my pay in 30 days flat. I mean even if I get a hike or a bonus, I still manage to finish it in 30 days. Or if I have a sudden unexpected expense, still it finishes in 30 days. The whole point is that whether I get more or whether I get less, I end up with zero at month-end Same as me. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: and I am quite happy with that too. Not the same as me. I hate living 30 days at a time, it is stressful. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I mean, it's easier that way. I just need to think for 30 days. When the new month starts I get money again and the cycle continues. My point is that even if I start saving money now, it wont amount to much. But 4 years later when I am earning 10 times what I do now, then if I save each month, I can save in one month or two what I could save in an entire year with my current monetary situation I think this is a prime example of what the rich (or soon to be rich) people know about, and what the poor (or soon to be poor) people don't know about. IMHO that is a terrible way to think Nish. With your first job lets say you earned X. At the time you thought "not bad, not enough to start saving so lets just live and get a raise." Then you got a raise to 2X. However you forgot what you said when you were earning X and once again said "not enough to start saving, lets waits until I get 3X. Meanwhile your expenses are increasing, you are expecting more from life and you are sick of eating two minute noodles every night. So you spend more. At the end of the day you are in the same position as you were in when you were earning X. Then you get 3X, and once again your perspective changes and you say "4X." And so on and so on. I worked out that if I had saved just 5% of my salary from the day I started working till know I would have enough to cater for any emergency, put a deposit down on a flat (instead of just having enough to rent it), help Janina pay for her education and so on. Yet I said the same thing every time I got a raise "I need more before I can start saving." I am still in the same financial position as I was two years ago, even though I am earning three times as much as then. Rich people, and I work for one, know that you get rich not through big salaries or lucky breaks or huge windfalls. You get rich through small savings which add up over the years and get doubly added by
The words of wisdom I always heard were to "pay yourself first." Go ahead and take that 5% and put it into a savings account somewhere. Your other expenses will work themselves out around what you have left. If you let your own "savings" work itself out from what you have left after everything else is paid, then you won't ever get any saved, as you have pointed out. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.