Calling all Brits
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Ian Darling wrote: Requirement to notify the State when you move house Don't people always have to register and notify some kind of authority when they move? I have to, and I'm practically your neighbour.
Michael Hendrickx wrote: Don't people always have to register and notify some kind of authority when they move? I have to, and I'm practically your neighbour. The only authority I had to contact last time I moved was the local council for the area I moved to, and that was just for the electoral roll and to register for the locally administered housing tax. And I certainly wouldn't get fined thousands of pounds if I didn't get it done within a month. When I was a student I was exempt from the local house taxes too, so I don't think I even had that much to do (IIRC). I also registered with the local doctors surgery, but only when I needed medical treatment for an injury. As far as I'm concerned, most bits of government (and in particular, central government) don't need to know where I live, as I almost never have to deal with them. Why have the extra bureaucracy when it isn't needed?
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You don't like your big brother, do you? Well, this scheme has been thought up by people with the technological skill of a tenth-rate VB programmer and an authoritarian streak wider than the Atlantic....
I think that your comment is insulting to tenth-rate VB programmers. ;P
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Michael Hendrickx wrote: Don't people always have to register and notify some kind of authority when they move? I have to, and I'm practically your neighbour. The only authority I had to contact last time I moved was the local council for the area I moved to, and that was just for the electoral roll and to register for the locally administered housing tax. And I certainly wouldn't get fined thousands of pounds if I didn't get it done within a month. When I was a student I was exempt from the local house taxes too, so I don't think I even had that much to do (IIRC). I also registered with the local doctors surgery, but only when I needed medical treatment for an injury. As far as I'm concerned, most bits of government (and in particular, central government) don't need to know where I live, as I almost never have to deal with them. Why have the extra bureaucracy when it isn't needed?
Ian Darling wrote: As far as I'm concerned, most bits of government (and in particular, central government) don't need to know where I live, as I almost never have to deal with them. Why have the extra bureaucracy when it isn't needed? True, I wholeheartly agree, yet if all local council / authorities / medical entities / .. - would all stick together, having one big database (oracle 9i - unbreakable :)) they would have had a profile on you already. Furthermore, look at it from the governments point of view, you wanna live in the UK, take advantage of its features (medical treatment, education, safety, roads, ...) but yet remain anonymous? It's like you wanna post in codeproject.com, but dont wanna sign up. I mean; put all data about you together, including education, medical data, family, hobbies, emails your receive (mailing lists, what sites you surf to, ...), phone records, .. There's awfully little space for freedom. Now UK government just want it all a little bit organized. So, Big Brother has you. Not uncle sam, but Uncle Tony in your case :) Yeah, I don't like big brother too.. but there's very little you can do about it.
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Ian Darling wrote: As far as I'm concerned, most bits of government (and in particular, central government) don't need to know where I live, as I almost never have to deal with them. Why have the extra bureaucracy when it isn't needed? True, I wholeheartly agree, yet if all local council / authorities / medical entities / .. - would all stick together, having one big database (oracle 9i - unbreakable :)) they would have had a profile on you already. Furthermore, look at it from the governments point of view, you wanna live in the UK, take advantage of its features (medical treatment, education, safety, roads, ...) but yet remain anonymous? It's like you wanna post in codeproject.com, but dont wanna sign up. I mean; put all data about you together, including education, medical data, family, hobbies, emails your receive (mailing lists, what sites you surf to, ...), phone records, .. There's awfully little space for freedom. Now UK government just want it all a little bit organized. So, Big Brother has you. Not uncle sam, but Uncle Tony in your case :) Yeah, I don't like big brother too.. but there's very little you can do about it.
Michael Hendrickx wrote: Furthermore, look at it from the governments point of view, you wanna live in the UK, take advantage of its features (medical treatment, education, safety, roads, ...) but yet remain anonymous? It's like you wanna post in codeproject.com, but dont wanna sign up. The thing is, that when dealing with education, health, and even codeproject, I'm the one choosing to be anonymous or not. But if I'm minding my own business, I want to remain anonymous. Under the National Identity Register, anonymity becomes a lot harder to attain, because the biometrics stored (unreliable as they are) can then be matched up to you (or a subset of people that probably includes you), even if you haven't wanted to be identified. Say I'm protesting a government policy (on anything you like). Being able to remain anonymous at your own choice is actually essential in this scenario, because it protects me from a government who might try to silence me if they knew who I was - basically the right to anonymity is one of the things that protects and supports democracy, and the people who live in democracies. (People in the UK may wish to remind themselves over the events regarding Dr Kelly at this point. If you're forced out of anonymity after criticising the government, the pressure on you ends up such that you might take your own life!) That was one of the things the American's definitely got right in their Constitution - the freedom to be anonymous and move about anonymously. Michael Hendrickx wrote: I mean; put all data about you together, including education, medical data, family, hobbies, emails your receive (mailing lists, what sites you surf to, ...), phone records, .. There's awfully little space for freedom. Now UK government just want it all a little bit organized. There's also a security failing when dealing with these sorts of unified databases - one mass database for everything is a much more attractive proposition for criminals and nosy bastards, in the same way a nice juicy steak is more appealing than cheap burgers. In the UK we have a law called the Data Protection Act, and one of the principles of that act is that any data stored on a person must be proportionate, that is to say relevant to the task at hand and nothing else. So mailing lists may have your address and some information relating to the list, but they can't justify having your medical records, tax records, private communications, and so forth.
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I think that your comment is insulting to tenth-rate VB programmers. ;P
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I think that your comment is insulting to tenth-rate VB programmers. And what's really scary is that is so true :sigh:
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I pledged, but I'm curious about this other one: "I will cut up my identity card and sent the bits to the Home Secretary but only if 50 other suspicious persons will too."[^] I'd still have to pay the £150 odd it would eventually rise to to get the card first, wouldn't I? There are two things I won't do, 1) cut up money and 2) cut up anything with the monarch's head on it, the card will probably carry both? (Neither is because I owe any real duty of care, but purely because I don't think they are very clever or repsectful things to do...) How about applying for a card in Osama Bin Laden's name, and details, and if it gets granted going to the tabloids? That ought to have the system scrapped overnight. I'm going to open a pool - "How many years until we are mandated to carry RFID tags in our bodies?" Entry is £5. The prize money + any interest will be split up amongst all the people who guess the correct year.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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I pledged, but I'm curious about this other one: "I will cut up my identity card and sent the bits to the Home Secretary but only if 50 other suspicious persons will too."[^] I'd still have to pay the £150 odd it would eventually rise to to get the card first, wouldn't I? There are two things I won't do, 1) cut up money and 2) cut up anything with the monarch's head on it, the card will probably carry both? (Neither is because I owe any real duty of care, but purely because I don't think they are very clever or repsectful things to do...) How about applying for a card in Osama Bin Laden's name, and details, and if it gets granted going to the tabloids? That ought to have the system scrapped overnight. I'm going to open a pool - "How many years until we are mandated to carry RFID tags in our bodies?" Entry is £5. The prize money + any interest will be split up amongst all the people who guess the correct year.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
The whole thing is totally ridiculous. If they want the money then they can get it from me but if they give me a card then so what. I'll just lose it either intentionally or unintentionally. I can't even keep hold of things I want to keep. The only way they'll force me to carry it is by stapling it to my forehead. Another example of the petty fascism that is engulfing our country. Best just to ignore it like all the rest of their stupid rules.
MOO!
"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything." --Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's a Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.
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Ian Darling wrote: As far as I'm concerned, most bits of government (and in particular, central government) don't need to know where I live, as I almost never have to deal with them. Why have the extra bureaucracy when it isn't needed? True, I wholeheartly agree, yet if all local council / authorities / medical entities / .. - would all stick together, having one big database (oracle 9i - unbreakable :)) they would have had a profile on you already. Furthermore, look at it from the governments point of view, you wanna live in the UK, take advantage of its features (medical treatment, education, safety, roads, ...) but yet remain anonymous? It's like you wanna post in codeproject.com, but dont wanna sign up. I mean; put all data about you together, including education, medical data, family, hobbies, emails your receive (mailing lists, what sites you surf to, ...), phone records, .. There's awfully little space for freedom. Now UK government just want it all a little bit organized. So, Big Brother has you. Not uncle sam, but Uncle Tony in your case :) Yeah, I don't like big brother too.. but there's very little you can do about it.
It's not that I 'wanna live in the UK' I am British. I happen to believe that I am the master here not them. They serve me not the other way round. It's an important distinction. It's fundemental to our civil liberties that we remain anonymous. My hobbies are my own to share if I will. Tony Blair is just a blip damn I should have made this an anonymous post!
MOO!
"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything." --Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's a Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.
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I pledged, but I'm curious about this other one: "I will cut up my identity card and sent the bits to the Home Secretary but only if 50 other suspicious persons will too."[^] I'd still have to pay the £150 odd it would eventually rise to to get the card first, wouldn't I? There are two things I won't do, 1) cut up money and 2) cut up anything with the monarch's head on it, the card will probably carry both? (Neither is because I owe any real duty of care, but purely because I don't think they are very clever or repsectful things to do...) How about applying for a card in Osama Bin Laden's name, and details, and if it gets granted going to the tabloids? That ought to have the system scrapped overnight. I'm going to open a pool - "How many years until we are mandated to carry RFID tags in our bodies?" Entry is £5. The prize money + any interest will be split up amongst all the people who guess the correct year.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
David Wulff wrote: I'm going to open a pool - "How many years until we are mandated to carry RFID tags in our bodies?" Entry is £5. The prize money + any interest will be split up amongst all the people who guess the correct year. The year will be when Kevin Warwick (aka Captain Cyborg) convinces Tony Blair that it'd help in fighting terrorism :rolleyes: So I'd say it'll be announced in the next year or two, combined with the ID scheme (so you can't lose it), and rolled out around 2012 in time for the Olympics (if we win it), or 2013 if not.
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Michael Hendrickx wrote: Furthermore, look at it from the governments point of view, you wanna live in the UK, take advantage of its features (medical treatment, education, safety, roads, ...) but yet remain anonymous? It's like you wanna post in codeproject.com, but dont wanna sign up. The thing is, that when dealing with education, health, and even codeproject, I'm the one choosing to be anonymous or not. But if I'm minding my own business, I want to remain anonymous. Under the National Identity Register, anonymity becomes a lot harder to attain, because the biometrics stored (unreliable as they are) can then be matched up to you (or a subset of people that probably includes you), even if you haven't wanted to be identified. Say I'm protesting a government policy (on anything you like). Being able to remain anonymous at your own choice is actually essential in this scenario, because it protects me from a government who might try to silence me if they knew who I was - basically the right to anonymity is one of the things that protects and supports democracy, and the people who live in democracies. (People in the UK may wish to remind themselves over the events regarding Dr Kelly at this point. If you're forced out of anonymity after criticising the government, the pressure on you ends up such that you might take your own life!) That was one of the things the American's definitely got right in their Constitution - the freedom to be anonymous and move about anonymously. Michael Hendrickx wrote: I mean; put all data about you together, including education, medical data, family, hobbies, emails your receive (mailing lists, what sites you surf to, ...), phone records, .. There's awfully little space for freedom. Now UK government just want it all a little bit organized. There's also a security failing when dealing with these sorts of unified databases - one mass database for everything is a much more attractive proposition for criminals and nosy bastards, in the same way a nice juicy steak is more appealing than cheap burgers. In the UK we have a law called the Data Protection Act, and one of the principles of that act is that any data stored on a person must be proportionate, that is to say relevant to the task at hand and nothing else. So mailing lists may have your address and some information relating to the list, but they can't justify having your medical records, tax records, private communications, and so forth.
Ian Darling wrote: there's a metric f***load *flipping through the SI book* I just can't seem to find that unit.. :confused: :-D -- An eye for an eye will only make the world blind.
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Signed up. It cannot work and will meke about 2.5 million people criminals and legalise the criminals with fake cards. The tigress is here :-D
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It's just appeared in The Register. The tigress is here :-D
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Signed up. It cannot work and will meke about 2.5 million people criminals and legalise the criminals with fake cards. The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: Signed up. Ta :-D That list is growing nice and quickly, I have to say :-)
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It is because of this and a variety of other issues that I will be leaving dear old blighty for distant shores as soon all the bureaucracy is complete. I shall miss the place; the beauty of a warm summer’s day, the fabulous colours of autumn, the clear, bracing days of a proper winter and the flowering glory of a spring day. The rolling hills of the Downs, the Cumbrian lakes, the Welsh hills and the simplicity of a fresh fish lunch in a Norfolk fishing village. Sadly this is not enough to keep me here. I feel overwhelmed with the changes being forced upon us against our collective will. And I fear for the future of my family. I resent the continual imposition of taxes inspired by greed and corruption and the unspoken desire to turn us all in to council house tenants. I despair at the stench made by our politicians and the lies that are driving us to a bleak future. I despair of an open-door immigration policy that has made me a disenfranchised majority without rights in my own country. It is sad that I (and the majority of my friends) feel this way. And I appreciate the irony that I will become an immigrant in a foreign land. But I see no choice: we are no longer heard by our government: they spend more time giving away our hard earned money to corrupt regimes in Africa when they should be attending to poverty and child cruelty in our own back yard. I earnestly invite you to both disagree with me and refute what I have said: I would dearly love it if someone could persuade me that I have got it all wrong so I would want to stay in the country I love.
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It is because of this and a variety of other issues that I will be leaving dear old blighty for distant shores as soon all the bureaucracy is complete. I shall miss the place; the beauty of a warm summer’s day, the fabulous colours of autumn, the clear, bracing days of a proper winter and the flowering glory of a spring day. The rolling hills of the Downs, the Cumbrian lakes, the Welsh hills and the simplicity of a fresh fish lunch in a Norfolk fishing village. Sadly this is not enough to keep me here. I feel overwhelmed with the changes being forced upon us against our collective will. And I fear for the future of my family. I resent the continual imposition of taxes inspired by greed and corruption and the unspoken desire to turn us all in to council house tenants. I despair at the stench made by our politicians and the lies that are driving us to a bleak future. I despair of an open-door immigration policy that has made me a disenfranchised majority without rights in my own country. It is sad that I (and the majority of my friends) feel this way. And I appreciate the irony that I will become an immigrant in a foreign land. But I see no choice: we are no longer heard by our government: they spend more time giving away our hard earned money to corrupt regimes in Africa when they should be attending to poverty and child cruelty in our own back yard. I earnestly invite you to both disagree with me and refute what I have said: I would dearly love it if someone could persuade me that I have got it all wrong so I would want to stay in the country I love.
I'd love to refute all of it but I can't, I can only refute the following; 'and the unspoken desire to turn us all in to council house tenants. ' given Thatchers demolition of the council housing service in the 1980's, (not that I'm offering any opinion on that being good or bad, only that it was so), the UK housing market, the ongoing reduction of council owned/maintained property and the rise of the 'Housing Association'. I've also had some sideways involvement in local councils and I would ascertain from what I know that local councils would love nothing more than to have NO responsibility for council housing in any way, shape or form. Oh, and trust me it could be worse, I won't go into the details because of the potential implications on me and my family but you really don't want to try being a divorced father in the UK. Did you know there's nothing you can do about your ex leaving the country with their new partner and taking your child with them as long as they 'agree' to continue communication before they go? Yes, I'm bitter and probably more than most, and I would only contest the council housing implications in what you're saying but the rest :sigh: Good luck to you, I genuinely hope the grass is greener for you on the other side Rhys A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk I have a workstation... Vampireware /n/, a project, capable of sucking the lifeblood out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it, which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless refuses to die.
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I'd love to refute all of it but I can't, I can only refute the following; 'and the unspoken desire to turn us all in to council house tenants. ' given Thatchers demolition of the council housing service in the 1980's, (not that I'm offering any opinion on that being good or bad, only that it was so), the UK housing market, the ongoing reduction of council owned/maintained property and the rise of the 'Housing Association'. I've also had some sideways involvement in local councils and I would ascertain from what I know that local councils would love nothing more than to have NO responsibility for council housing in any way, shape or form. Oh, and trust me it could be worse, I won't go into the details because of the potential implications on me and my family but you really don't want to try being a divorced father in the UK. Did you know there's nothing you can do about your ex leaving the country with their new partner and taking your child with them as long as they 'agree' to continue communication before they go? Yes, I'm bitter and probably more than most, and I would only contest the council housing implications in what you're saying but the rest :sigh: Good luck to you, I genuinely hope the grass is greener for you on the other side Rhys A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk I have a workstation... Vampireware /n/, a project, capable of sucking the lifeblood out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it, which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless refuses to die.
Sorry, I didn't literally mean that the mysterious 'they' would make us all live in council houses, rather I was alluding to the mentality that kept people there prior to Thatcher and the desire of many 'New Labour' politicians, not naming any rotund, jag loving wanker who would see the return of that 'lifestyle'. I am a divorced father. I have not seen my son for 8 years, 3 of which he spent in Singapore against my wishes. I have spent YEARS in court trying to get to see my son. Unfortunately the scales of 'justice' in this country are weighed heavily in favour of the wife. Thanks, anyway. Oh, and I too have a workstation on my desk...
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We've had this scheme for as long as I can remember. When you are born you are given a number, much like a social security number. It's the birth date plus four digits (YYYYMMDD-XXXX). I can't say that I have suffered from this, but on the same note I can't say that I have benefited from it either. -- An eye for an eye will only make the world blind.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: It's the birth date plus four digits (YYYYMMDD-XXXX). What happens to the 10,001 person born in one day? ;) Here in South Africa they took into account our loose legged ways and made it YYMMDD-XXXXXXX. Though of course they forgot the century and AFAIK they encode your sex into the number. regards, Paul Watson South Africa PMW Photography Gary Wheeler wrote: It's people like you that keep me heading for my big debut on CNN...
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Wow, talk about the Monday morning effect - have you seen how much the list has grown by today? Over 900 people... up from 10. :omg:
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: It's the birth date plus four digits (YYYYMMDD-XXXX). What happens to the 10,001 person born in one day? ;) Here in South Africa they took into account our loose legged ways and made it YYMMDD-XXXXXXX. Though of course they forgot the century and AFAIK they encode your sex into the number. regards, Paul Watson South Africa PMW Photography Gary Wheeler wrote: It's people like you that keep me heading for my big debut on CNN...
Paul Watson wrote: What happens to the 10,001 person born in one day? I honestly don't know. :~ Perhaps the first bug fix release will be issued. :) Paul Watson wrote: Though of course they forgot the century and AFAIK they encode your sex into the number. The century part came about in the Y2k-frenzy. You can enter YYMMDD in most systems, but internally it will store it with century. Some systems won't accept the centuryless version. Our four last digits include sex and checksum information, as well as in what part of the country you were born. -- An eye for an eye will only make the world blind.
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Yikes!! What the hell is going on over there!? -- An eye for an eye will only make the world blind.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Yikes!! What the hell is going on over there!? Blunketophobia. :~ Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.