Indianapolis farce!
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
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John Cardinal wrote: I watched it, I don't see why it was unprofessional of the Michelin teams to retire I do. When there are only full speed 6 cars in the race it leaves space for 2 other "slow" cars to get into the points, plus the extra posibility of some of the fast cars retiring. I cannot remember Schumacher even stopping because his car was too slow. He might have wrecked it completely trying to get more out of it, but not retire. OGR
I don't think you have given this any thought or really understand the issues at hand, it was a matter of safety, life or death safety. Aside from the fact that it would have been all but impossible to pick which 2 other "slow" cars to choose, that plan would only work if racing drivers were capable of not being racing drivers for the entire race. To expect a racing driver of that caliber to *not* risk the tire exploding to win a race is just silly. Of course they are going to go full out. Most of them would have raced today despite the clear risk. Someone else had to tell them not to: the team management who are able to look at this realistically and are smarter than to allow their drivers to risk their lives under such clearly dangerous circumstances. The drivers will risk their lives any time, that's not the issue, it's always a risk racing, the issue here is that there is a clear and definitive danger, Michelin said if you race as normal with these tires they *will* blow out. There is no practical way to make those cars at risk go slow so it's pointless to consider it.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
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Luis Alonso Ramos wrote: So, what do F1 fan here think? I think if I were in the race, I would get one point, or maybe the podium. :laugh:
Work hard, Work effectively.
I could race too, beat you, and you'd still get one point!!! ;P -- LuisR
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
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I don't think you have given this any thought or really understand the issues at hand, it was a matter of safety, life or death safety. Aside from the fact that it would have been all but impossible to pick which 2 other "slow" cars to choose, that plan would only work if racing drivers were capable of not being racing drivers for the entire race. To expect a racing driver of that caliber to *not* risk the tire exploding to win a race is just silly. Of course they are going to go full out. Most of them would have raced today despite the clear risk. Someone else had to tell them not to: the team management who are able to look at this realistically and are smarter than to allow their drivers to risk their lives under such clearly dangerous circumstances. The drivers will risk their lives any time, that's not the issue, it's always a risk racing, the issue here is that there is a clear and definitive danger, Michelin said if you race as normal with these tires they *will* blow out. There is no practical way to make those cars at risk go slow so it's pointless to consider it.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
Well, I partly agree with you. While it's true that drivers would risk "a little more" to win the race, they already impose themselves limits based on the car/tyres. They can't enter the U-turn leading to the casino in Montecarlo at 200 kph because the tyres won't permit it (they won't blow up, but they won't hold the track) so the tyres already impose limitations in the speed you enter a turn. I agree with the FIA on not putting a chicane on that part of the track to slow the cars. You can't bend the rules or change the layout of the track just because some teams are not fit to race. I mean, they knew in advance the track and its turns, and if Michelin failed to bring the right tyres, it's *their* fault and not the FIA's. The only real option that could have saved the race would be for the Michelin teams to start the race and change tyres, assuming any penalty. I think the only one to blame here is Michelin. Yes, the FIA could have acted a little more diplomatically, but at the end their choice was the correct one according to the rules. Unfortunately Michelin made a huge mistake and it was the fans who finally paid for it (and of course, the teams that lost points to Ferrari). I can't wait to see what happens in the next few days :suss: -- LuisR
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
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I don't think you have given this any thought or really understand the issues at hand, it was a matter of safety, life or death safety. Aside from the fact that it would have been all but impossible to pick which 2 other "slow" cars to choose, that plan would only work if racing drivers were capable of not being racing drivers for the entire race. To expect a racing driver of that caliber to *not* risk the tire exploding to win a race is just silly. Of course they are going to go full out. Most of them would have raced today despite the clear risk. Someone else had to tell them not to: the team management who are able to look at this realistically and are smarter than to allow their drivers to risk their lives under such clearly dangerous circumstances. The drivers will risk their lives any time, that's not the issue, it's always a risk racing, the issue here is that there is a clear and definitive danger, Michelin said if you race as normal with these tires they *will* blow out. There is no practical way to make those cars at risk go slow so it's pointless to consider it.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: it was a matter of safety, life or death safety. if I try to drive my car at 200 km/h it also becomes a matter of life and death. I still do quite well at 100 km/h. I just have to drive in my limits, that's all John Cardinal wrote: Aside from the fact that it would have been all but impossible to pick which 2 other "slow" cars to choose why choose? just compete and the best 2 "slow cars" will sort themself out John Cardinal wrote: There is no practical way to make those cars at risk go slow maybe my car is a better model than what those guys drive, but I can control the speed reasonably well using (a) the gas pedal and (b) the break. I just push (a) less and (b) more and it works just fine. the drivers have to control their speed in every other race anyway, the tyres need to get warm first, then after a while they lose traction, never mind unexpected showers, debris or oil leakage on the track, so they won't drive at maximum speed at all times. It looks a lot more like the teams had a political point to make OGR
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
This was waiting to happen, F1 ia now a business not a sport. That and an incompetent ruling body having silly rules, e.g. 1 set of tyres per race and they can't be changed. These days for pure racing I watch MotoGP, but I did watch the F1 race on Sunday, it was very 'amusing'.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
I was terribly disapointed. If it is indeed the fault of the FIA to compromise then they have let everyone down. I have often defended F1 to non-fans, sometimes giving it more credit than it is due, but this time it is on its own because it let me down too. I wanted to watch that race. Hopefully this will be the straw that breaks the back of the FIA and sets in motion reform. regards, Paul Watson South Africa PMW Photography Gary Wheeler wrote: It's people like you that keep me heading for my big debut on CNN...
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I watched it, I don't see why it was unprofessional of the Michelin teams to retire, it's just completely impractical to expect a racing driver to slow down to an unknown but slower speed for a couple of turns. You can have all the good intentions in the world, but if someone is being put under pressure are they really going to slow down to a safe speed? That's not racing by any stretch. It's a safety issue as well when your put under pressure by a Ferrari and you suddenly have to slow down right in front of them for a couple of turns. No, there was no other option for the teams given the circumstances, they made the right decision. There were lot's of good compromises suggested, even by the Bridgestone runners, but unfortunately the FIA were not so concerned about compromise. In the end I don't care, the U.S. announcers were making a big deal about how this will hurt the effort to get more U.S. fans, but in the end the rest of the world loves f1 and the average U.S. tv viewer never will adopt it because it's too global and to average U.S. fans it's never about the love of the sport, they could care less about any sporting event happening in the rest of the world unless an American is winning it so why even make the effort anyway? The second that Lance Armstrong retires from the tour de france you can bet the TV numbers in the U.S. will plummet to depths only known by NHL hockey and lawn bowling. I see a lot of people blaming Michelin teams, blaming Ferrari etc, but in the end it's really the FIA that couldn't come up with a solution that everyone could agree to despite having a lot of time to work on it, in fact they were completely unwilling to even try so blame falls squarely with Michelin first for having a bad tire and the FIA second for being unwilling to find a compromise. Aside from this debacle the racing has been very entertaining all season, the Indianapolis track is pretty boring with the oval section and all anyway and it didn't really cost me anything so I'm just looking forward to France in two weeks where I'm sure the qualifying will be interesting.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: I watched it, I don't see why it was unprofessional of the Michelin teams to retire, it's just completely impractical to expect a racing driver to slow down to an unknown but slower speed for a couple of turns Agreed, that would have been a farce as well as dangerous (Bridgestone runners doing full speed through a long corner that Michelin runners are taking slow). John Cardinal wrote: In the end I don't care, the U.S 120,000 U.S. fans pitched up, on average paying $100 a ticket, many travelling the length and breadth of the country to get there. I don't need figures like "Oh but the Indy 500 gets 400,000" or "Other circuits get bigger figures". 120,000 seperate people arrived to watch the sport we love, that they love. If nothing else that is a lot of bad-word of mouth. And I want F1 to do well in America. It is a sort of emmisary between an already divided world. We don't need more "Oh those Europeans couldn't even get a car race right" comments. By taking a "I don't care about the Indy F1" attitude we would be exactly the same as the Americans who don't care. I don't know about you but that is not the attitude I wish to have. And if nothing else America is the biggest market for every single one of F1s manufacturers; BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault, Ferrari etc. F1 sponsorship is difficult enough as it is already without having its image sullied in the sponsors biggest market. One last thing; Michelin is French. The American media must love that one. regards, Paul Watson South Africa PMW Photography Gary Wheeler wrote: It's people like you that keep me heading for my big debut on CNN...
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
First, Michellin goofed--they were required to bring multiple sets of tires. They knew the circuit was rough on tires like Barcelona, which were they type of tires they fly in, so why didn't they have them as a second set? Having said that, it's also clear the Bridgestone received information from Firestone which makes the tires for the IRL Indy 500. In the end, though, it showed the FIA to be a ship of fools who don't really care about driver safety or actually entertaining fans. Someone said they were just a business; that would be an improvement! Right now, they're just a bureacracy throwing their weight around. That they allowed a single individual (Ecclestone) to have exclusive broadcast rights was stupidity of monumental proportions (no business would have allowed this, only a bureacracy would.) Beyond the farce of a six car race, I just rolled my eyes when Michael Schumacher shunted Barrichello and got away with it. (FIA's history of safety with Formula 1 is arguably the worse of any major motor sports series. I'm still amazed at how long it took the emergency crews to respond to Ralf Schumacher's crash last year. It was shameful. [In the past World Rally safety was piss poor too, but they don't travel at the speeds as Formula 1 and have largely fixed up their act.]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I watched it, I don't see why it was unprofessional of the Michelin teams to retire, it's just completely impractical to expect a racing driver to slow down to an unknown but slower speed for a couple of turns. You can have all the good intentions in the world, but if someone is being put under pressure are they really going to slow down to a safe speed? That's not racing by any stretch. It's a safety issue as well when your put under pressure by a Ferrari and you suddenly have to slow down right in front of them for a couple of turns. No, there was no other option for the teams given the circumstances, they made the right decision. There were lot's of good compromises suggested, even by the Bridgestone runners, but unfortunately the FIA were not so concerned about compromise. In the end I don't care, the U.S. announcers were making a big deal about how this will hurt the effort to get more U.S. fans, but in the end the rest of the world loves f1 and the average U.S. tv viewer never will adopt it because it's too global and to average U.S. fans it's never about the love of the sport, they could care less about any sporting event happening in the rest of the world unless an American is winning it so why even make the effort anyway? The second that Lance Armstrong retires from the tour de france you can bet the TV numbers in the U.S. will plummet to depths only known by NHL hockey and lawn bowling. I see a lot of people blaming Michelin teams, blaming Ferrari etc, but in the end it's really the FIA that couldn't come up with a solution that everyone could agree to despite having a lot of time to work on it, in fact they were completely unwilling to even try so blame falls squarely with Michelin first for having a bad tire and the FIA second for being unwilling to find a compromise. Aside from this debacle the racing has been very entertaining all season, the Indianapolis track is pretty boring with the oval section and all anyway and it didn't really cost me anything so I'm just looking forward to France in two weeks where I'm sure the qualifying will be interesting.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: In the end I don't care, the U.S. announcers were making a big deal about how this will hurt the effort to get more U.S. fans, but in the end the rest of the world loves f1 and the average U.S. tv viewer never will adopt it because it's too global and to average U.S. fans it's never about the love of the sport, they could care less about any sporting event happening in the rest of the world unless an American is winning it so why even make the effort anyway? Most announcers are morons anyway, and most Americans know that. Why watch races where racing has been outlawed (yeah, that includes NASCAR, too). I stopped watching NASCAR two years ago because they started dickin' around with the rules. No racing back to the caution, "lucky dog", and messing with the points system started it for me. At the Pocono race a cuple of weekends ago, they even outlawed down-shifting in any of the turns. I mean, what the hell is that about? I can't tell you why Americans don't like CART or IRL, except maybe because of the infrequent races, names they can't pronounce, names they don't recognize, or whatever. I'm pretty sure that any race fan you ask here in the US if they care whether or not an American wins a race over any other nationality, they wouldn't give a rats ass where they came from. As far as the tire thing goes, I agree - it's a saftey issue, and the teams were right in refusing to race. Michelin is at fault, and nobody else. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
For me, the blame lies with the FIA, Michellin & Berny Echlestone. Michellin is the obvious choice for not haveing tires ready. There are many factors for this including the new 'diamond cut' surface of the track etc. I heard yeterday that bridegstone had been able to prepare for this in dvance because they supply indy cars with their tyres a month before. It also seems like michelin only found out about the problem after ralf's tyre exploded in practice. However, when they did find out, they took all the appropriate steps, and told the FIA that a chicane was the only option. The FIA made in my opinion the fatal mistake by not including the chicane. I mean i know rules are rules, but this usually concerns individual teams, not the majority of the track. Bernie also told us that the race would go ahead when speaking on saturday. He lies, so owes me $1 billion of his fortune ;)
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First, Michellin goofed--they were required to bring multiple sets of tires. They knew the circuit was rough on tires like Barcelona, which were they type of tires they fly in, so why didn't they have them as a second set? Having said that, it's also clear the Bridgestone received information from Firestone which makes the tires for the IRL Indy 500. In the end, though, it showed the FIA to be a ship of fools who don't really care about driver safety or actually entertaining fans. Someone said they were just a business; that would be an improvement! Right now, they're just a bureacracy throwing their weight around. That they allowed a single individual (Ecclestone) to have exclusive broadcast rights was stupidity of monumental proportions (no business would have allowed this, only a bureacracy would.) Beyond the farce of a six car race, I just rolled my eyes when Michael Schumacher shunted Barrichello and got away with it. (FIA's history of safety with Formula 1 is arguably the worse of any major motor sports series. I'm still amazed at how long it took the emergency crews to respond to Ralf Schumacher's crash last year. It was shameful. [In the past World Rally safety was piss poor too, but they don't travel at the speeds as Formula 1 and have largely fixed up their act.]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
The words 'big business' and competent should rarely be used in the same sentance!
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
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So, did anyone here watch the Indianapolis Grand Prix? for those of you who didn't see what happened, Michelin tyres had some problems that made them unfit for racing (especially at the speed they take turn 13), in the end causing all 7 teams running Michelin tyres to retire after the formation lap. Only six cars, from the three Bridgeston teams, participated in a boring race that only a few moments were interesting when Barichello challenged Schumacher. I think it was very unprofessional from the Michelin teams to retire. Come on, if your tyres won't support the speed, then take the turn slower. They were asking for a chicane that at the end the FIA didn't authorize, so they simply decided not to race. I'm looking forward to seeing all the kind of problems this will generate. Just think of the public, sponsors, teams, the FIA, Bernie Eccleston... So, what do F1 fan here think? -- LuisR P.S. BTW, I'm glad to have CP back... I had missed it all day! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
You may find this article interesting http://motoring.iafrica.com/formulaone/452759.htm it gives, what I think :-O, is the correct interpretation of the 'facts'.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
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You may find this article interesting http://motoring.iafrica.com/formulaone/452759.htm it gives, what I think :-O, is the correct interpretation of the 'facts'.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
Thanks, great article! It precisely states my point of view! -- LuisR
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
