Interesting take on the VB.net VS C# issue
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"Don’t believe me? Why does C# 2005 have edit-and-continue? Because so many Morts went from VB to C# and they voted very loudly and publicly to get e&c put into their new adopted language." Ok, here's my version: Don’t believe me? Why does C# 2005 have edit-and-continue? Because so many Morts went from VC6 to C# and they voted very loudly and publicly to get e&c put into their new adopted language. If you don't know it enough, go to "Project Settings/C++/Debug Info" and choose "Program Database for Edit and Continue". Maybe it's even older than that, but I don't have an older VC installed to check it. I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
I doubt the clamour for E & C came from C++ developers. In my experience they tend to shun such things. And, indeed, as someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, E & C in VC6 is not particularly good. BTW, even in .NET 2 it appears that E & C in VB can do more than E & C in C#. It's not clear why this is, but watch the MSDN Nugget on E & C to see what I mean. Kevin
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He talks a lot of codswallop doesn't he. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
No. Kevin
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ToddHileHoffer wrote: But the truth be told, either language will work. Bah! Pure propaganda! Everyone knows, most real-world problems can only be solved using Perl... :rolleyes:
My god, you're a genius! - Jörgen Sigvardsson, The Lounge
Shog9 wrote: Everyone knows, most real-world problems can only be solved using Perl I have used at least a little of these languages: VB (more-or-less all variants), C, C++, JavaScript, Java, C#, Fortran, Eiffel, Python and Perl. Perl is the only language I truly detest. Kevin
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Perl? You wuss. I do everything in either assembly, batch files, or shell scripts. :-D The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
I gave this a 5. The banter on this site is GREAT!!! Keep it up. It's a blast. Aside from that I just wasted a post. ;P
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote: the intellisense is better then C# So what? Try Visual Assist, you'll love it... David
dnh wrote: So what? Try Visual Assist, you'll love it... I'm laid up with surgery but this comment spiked a thought for me. I was reading my MSDN magazine and recently saw an add for an IDE that had code completion for 200+ languages. I'd go look again but I cannot move without quite a bit of discomfort. You don't by chance know what that product is do you? (Is this hijacking? Does it matter?) - Rex
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
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dnh wrote: So what? Try Visual Assist, you'll love it... I'm laid up with surgery but this comment spiked a thought for me. I was reading my MSDN magazine and recently saw an add for an IDE that had code completion for 200+ languages. I'd go look again but I cannot move without quite a bit of discomfort. You don't by chance know what that product is do you? (Is this hijacking? Does it matter?) - Rex
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
Code Frog wrote: You don't by chance know what that product is do you? Nope. But it sounds quite cool... If you find it, can you post it to lounge? Code Frog wrote: Is this hijacking? maybe :) Code Frog wrote: Does it matter?) nooooo :D David
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Navin wrote: I do everything in either assembly, batch files, or shell scripts. Ha, you pampered little youngster! I feed 1s and 0s into the CPU directly, by hand! And the CPU is often several miles away, buried in snow, uphill both ways!
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Homosexuality in Christianity Judah Himango
You sissy. I use upper and lower case 0's only, carved from stone using my teeth.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I gave this a 5. The banter on this site is GREAT!!! Keep it up. It's a blast. Aside from that I just wasted a post. ;P
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
Code Frog wrote: I just wasted a post Au contraire. At one time there were great and glorious battles to see who could tally up the highest post count. People spoke in hushed tones about the "Nish-bot", for example. Ah, those were the days (wipes a tear).
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Code Frog wrote: You don't by chance know what that product is do you? Nope. But it sounds quite cool... If you find it, can you post it to lounge? Code Frog wrote: Is this hijacking? maybe :) Code Frog wrote: Does it matter?) nooooo :D David
It's called SlickEdit. Here's my new topic on it.http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?select=1158211&forumid=1159&mpp=50#xx1158211xx[^]
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
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Shog9 wrote: Everyone knows, most real-world problems can only be solved using Perl I have used at least a little of these languages: VB (more-or-less all variants), C, C++, JavaScript, Java, C#, Fortran, Eiffel, Python and Perl. Perl is the only language I truly detest. Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote: Perl is the only language I truly detest. :) I think of Perl as the French of programming languages... I've no desire to speak or write it myself, but i recognize that there are some rather interesting people who do, and who have had a significant effect on other languages that i do enjoy.
Ave Shog9, CP-addicti te salutant! - K(arl), The Soapbox
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I doubt the clamour for E & C came from C++ developers. In my experience they tend to shun such things. And, indeed, as someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, E & C in VC6 is not particularly good. BTW, even in .NET 2 it appears that E & C in VB can do more than E & C in C#. It's not clear why this is, but watch the MSDN Nugget on E & C to see what I mean. Kevin
What evidence is there that the feature was a result of any clamor? I think since some Java IDEs (like IntelliJ) had it for quite a while, the VS guys probably saw it and thought it was a nice feature. Matt Gerrans
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VB.Net rocks. It's easier to read and the intellisense is better then C#. But the truth be told, either language will work. As MS says, use whatever you're more comfortable with. "People who never make mistakes, never do anything." My blog http://toddsnotsoamazinglife.blogspot.com/
I've heard this argument about languages (not just VB/C#) many times before. I think a good analogy is this: all shoes do the same thing and serve the same purpose. ...Hmm, I wonder why it is you don't often hear of people ascending Everest in pumps? And, from the article: ...fundamental change in worldview from pragmatic and practical to elegant and engineered - and frankly that's just not going to happen. Seems to me pretty ridiculous to say that engineering and pramatic thinking are at odds. That's someone who doesn't know what engineering is (not that I necessarily think that writing software is engineering, but that's a whole different topic ;P). I think what he really should be contrasting is short-term thinking and long-term thinking. Realistically, I don't think it is such a bad thing that library writers and library users use different languages. The former need a stricter language structure and the latter need a more forgiving one. The former want to write good clean flexible code, while the latter want the doohicky to work with the whatchamacallit. Matt Gerrans
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You sissy. I use upper and lower case 0's only, carved from stone using my teeth.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote: You sissy. I use upper and lower case 0's only, carved from stone using my teeth. Only a mama's boy would do that! Back in my day, we didn't have 0's, or lower case numbers!
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Homosexuality in Christianity Judah Himango
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What evidence is there that the feature was a result of any clamor? I think since some Java IDEs (like IntelliJ) had it for quite a while, the VS guys probably saw it and thought it was a nice feature. Matt Gerrans
Matt Gerrans wrote: the VS guys probably saw it and thought it was a nice feature. No, MS have had it in VB for years. It was also in VC6 but the implementation was not that great. Lots of VB guys have moved to C# and I would have expected many of them to compalin about lack of E & C, more so than C++ guys moving to C# (unless they were already familiar with VB). Kevin
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Matt Gerrans wrote: the VS guys probably saw it and thought it was a nice feature. No, MS have had it in VB for years. It was also in VC6 but the implementation was not that great. Lots of VB guys have moved to C# and I would have expected many of them to compalin about lack of E & C, more so than C++ guys moving to C# (unless they were already familiar with VB). Kevin
Maybe I should have been more clear. The salient part of the question was what evidence... While Microsoft is responsive to customers, it is still speculation to say that is the reason for a particular feature, unless you have concrete evidence. It is equally, if not more likely that the team thought it was a good feature and wanted to include it, regardless of how they became aware of the idea. Matt Gerrans
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I've heard this argument about languages (not just VB/C#) many times before. I think a good analogy is this: all shoes do the same thing and serve the same purpose. ...Hmm, I wonder why it is you don't often hear of people ascending Everest in pumps? And, from the article: ...fundamental change in worldview from pragmatic and practical to elegant and engineered - and frankly that's just not going to happen. Seems to me pretty ridiculous to say that engineering and pramatic thinking are at odds. That's someone who doesn't know what engineering is (not that I necessarily think that writing software is engineering, but that's a whole different topic ;P). I think what he really should be contrasting is short-term thinking and long-term thinking. Realistically, I don't think it is such a bad thing that library writers and library users use different languages. The former need a stricter language structure and the latter need a more forgiving one. The former want to write good clean flexible code, while the latter want the doohicky to work with the whatchamacallit. Matt Gerrans
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Maybe I should have been more clear. The salient part of the question was what evidence... While Microsoft is responsive to customers, it is still speculation to say that is the reason for a particular feature, unless you have concrete evidence. It is equally, if not more likely that the team thought it was a good feature and wanted to include it, regardless of how they became aware of the idea. Matt Gerrans
If you're after a specific URL or blog I can't supply one from memory. Though I'm pretty sure I've read stuff saying that this has been added in response to requests. Anyway, the main point I was contesting was your original speculation that it was copied from the Java IDEs. While it seems fairly obvious that things such as refactoring support was copied from the Java IDEs, since MS never had this before, it's rather unlikely that E & C was copied, given that MS had already been supporting this for years in its legacy IDEs. Kevin