Hiroshima
-
And I believe that there have been condolences expressed here at the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Why don't you quit the knuckle-dragging, chest-thumping flag waving long enough to acknowledge that innocent people died on both sides. You might find that you're a better person for it.
-
pc128 wrote: This thread started here and it can end here. Listen, loser, you've just created your user profile; you have no history here, and no knowledge of protocol. Get your ass out of here.
-
I read that (apparently) it was also to do with showing the Soviets that the US had such weapons so that they didn't try to take over parts of Europe in the aftermath of war.
If it were not for atomic bomb many more millions would day if the invasion took place. My wild guess (judging by the experiences of the Okinawa and Ivo Jima) would be about a million of US soldiers and perhaps up to 10 millions of Japanese during some year long fighting. And kid yourself not - Japanese army and general public was preparing for just that.
-
And let's not forget about the millions of people killed or injured by the Japanese during WWII. In fact nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki simply pale in comparison with say Nanking masacre where japanese killed well above 300 000 and raped some 20 000 to 80 000 women (most of which were murdered or mutilated afterwards or turned into sex slawes).
Yes, the Japanese were bloodthirsty sex fiends, and Hiroshima was a military and industrial machine. That's irrelevant here. Today, we remember that in 1945, many people died in Hiroshima, killed by one of only two atomic bombs ever used against an enemy nation. We remember and morn the loss of life, as befits death on such a grand scale, and we remember and commemorate the occasion as an event that where the deaths of some spared the lives of others. It is a solumn occasion, one where most initial exuberance has evaporated over the years as details on the full cost of life and health came to light. And yet, it is not an occasion for false regret, as to do so would for many mean regret of their own births. Don't let hatred or pride prevent you from recognizing this for what it is - an occasion unique in human history, one that cannot be understood in terms of any other event. Remember.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
-
I think he has as much a right to express his opinion as anyone here. Right now the only name calling has come from those with a different opinion than his and in the form of agression. Makes me wonder about who's really right. I like you and respect you (LunaticFringe) but you are wrong to not respect his opinions and maybe challenge them with thoughtful and unemotional counters. Don't get angry you are becoming what you abhor and in doing so believe you are right. That's not a good or healthy thing.
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
"{Edited} removed dnh from my comments" ? Now I'll be wondering whole day where I was in your comments. :-O Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
I think he has as much a right to express his opinion as anyone here. Right now the only name calling has come from those with a different opinion than his and in the form of agression. Makes me wonder about who's really right. I like you and respect you (LunaticFringe) but you are wrong to not respect his opinions and maybe challenge them with thoughtful and unemotional counters. Don't get angry you are becoming what you abhor and in doing so believe you are right. That's not a good or healthy thing.
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
-
Yes, the Japanese were bloodthirsty sex fiends, and Hiroshima was a military and industrial machine. That's irrelevant here. Today, we remember that in 1945, many people died in Hiroshima, killed by one of only two atomic bombs ever used against an enemy nation. We remember and morn the loss of life, as befits death on such a grand scale, and we remember and commemorate the occasion as an event that where the deaths of some spared the lives of others. It is a solumn occasion, one where most initial exuberance has evaporated over the years as details on the full cost of life and health came to light. And yet, it is not an occasion for false regret, as to do so would for many mean regret of their own births. Don't let hatred or pride prevent you from recognizing this for what it is - an occasion unique in human history, one that cannot be understood in terms of any other event. Remember.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
Right on. It's important to remember not only what happened but also why it happened. And in that particular case it's very much relevant because if you just focus on the isolated event you will completely loose the perspective and the propotion of the whole event.
-
My wife and I were just watching a clip of the ceremonies at Hiroshima today on the news and it struck me that it was kind of odd that such a seemingly desperate measure was taken by the U.S. at a time that was AFAIK not calling for such desperation. According to MacArthur Japan was starting to draw up plans for formal surrender and he was scaling down some planned operations at the time. I'm not being critical here, I firmly believe that you can not second guess what people were feeling and doing in the past, I didn't live through that and to be fair I suspect the people who ordered the attack were probably surprised at the level of destruction that resulted. But the timing of the whole thing has always seemed very peculiar to me. Almost as if because the bomb existed, it just had to be used, somewhere, anywhere.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: But the timing of the whole thing has always seemed very peculiar to me. Almost as if because the bomb existed, it just had to be used, somewhere, anywhere You shouldn't think things like that, next thing you know you'll start asking qustions like how come all those planes had been flying around Hiroshima with full payloads for the last few months before they dropped the bomb on it. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "So keep that smile on your face. Have a drink to help you sleep at night. They got what they desired. We're passive in their brave new world." New Model Army
-
Even though I might agree with some of what has been said, it is VERY bad form to bring that stuff up on a memorial day. :rose: Hiroshima. Let us all hope that these weapons never get used again. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
And let's not forget about the millions of people killed or injured by the Japanese during WWII. In fact nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki simply pale in comparison with say Nanking masacre where japanese killed well above 300 000 and raped some 20 000 to 80 000 women (most of which were murdered or mutilated afterwards or turned into sex slawes).
-
Very bad form. You should be ashamed of yourself. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
There is no problem with my form. Just pointing out a few details and putting the whole thing into perspective. And unlike Japanese society I have no reason to feel ashamed. Japan is actively circumventing the history and denying many of the atrocities. Japanese people don't feel sorry for the war crimes, they don't apologize and don't pay compensation to the affected people. Many of the war criminals are considered a heroes and never stands trial. And to top all that they manage to portray themself as a victims where in fact they are directly responsible for all that happened. THAT is what I call a very bad form and I feel obliged to bring the bigger picture out as neccessary.
-
"{Edited} removed dnh from my comments" ? Now I'll be wondering whole day where I was in your comments. :-O Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyFor about 3 seconds dnh was in the parentheses with LunaticFringe. I do like and respect you but realized I had grouped you in on accident so I removed you. No hard feelings I hope. ;P
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
-
Even though I might agree with some of what has been said, it is VERY bad form to bring that stuff up on a memorial day. :rose: Hiroshima. Let us all hope that these weapons never get used again. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
I don't think it's approriate to bring the memorial day on the website dedicated to programming. But once it happened you have to be preparet for various opinions and points of view. And some uncofortable facts may come to the light in the process. Nuclear weapons will be used again, it's just a matter of when not if. We have Israel and possibly Norht Korea soon to be followed by Iran. We have India and Pakistan and here it's really just a matter of time given the close proximity of both countries not allowing any time to properly verify the other side intentions. And then we have terrorists who will use the weapons as soon as they manage to get any (and considering the shape of Russian nuclear forces it's surprising that still didn't happen).
-
Yes, the Japanese were bloodthirsty sex fiends, and Hiroshima was a military and industrial machine. That's irrelevant here. Today, we remember that in 1945, many people died in Hiroshima, killed by one of only two atomic bombs ever used against an enemy nation. We remember and morn the loss of life, as befits death on such a grand scale, and we remember and commemorate the occasion as an event that where the deaths of some spared the lives of others. It is a solumn occasion, one where most initial exuberance has evaporated over the years as details on the full cost of life and health came to light. And yet, it is not an occasion for false regret, as to do so would for many mean regret of their own births. Don't let hatred or pride prevent you from recognizing this for what it is - an occasion unique in human history, one that cannot be understood in terms of any other event. Remember.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
You've just stated what I tried in 3 different replies to state but could not find the right words and hence cancelled my reply. I was going to leave well enough alone all together but this reply succinctly expresses how I feel without robbing or condemning the land I call home and would die to protect if called upon. Thank you Shog in a huge way I think you just nailed a very good point. Carve it in stone and let it stand because it's a fair statement for all involved. - Rex
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
-
John Cardinal wrote: But the timing of the whole thing has always seemed very peculiar to me. Almost as if because the bomb existed, it just had to be used, somewhere, anywhere You shouldn't think things like that, next thing you know you'll start asking qustions like how come all those planes had been flying around Hiroshima with full payloads for the last few months before they dropped the bomb on it. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "So keep that smile on your face. Have a drink to help you sleep at night. They got what they desired. We're passive in their brave new world." New Model Army
Not only that, they actually "preserved" the cities designated for nuclear strikes (Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Kokura) and didn't bomb these with conventional weapons. If they did carpet-bomb the place before dropping the nuclear bomb the devastation would not be so obvious since the carpet bombing can do pretty much the same damage. For a long time there were a overflights over the cities by a single american bomber just so the anti aircraft units would get used to it and ignore it. That helped to deliver the real bomb. One of many deception tactics used in the war.
-
I don't think it's approriate to bring the memorial day on the website dedicated to programming. But once it happened you have to be preparet for various opinions and points of view. And some uncofortable facts may come to the light in the process. Nuclear weapons will be used again, it's just a matter of when not if. We have Israel and possibly Norht Korea soon to be followed by Iran. We have India and Pakistan and here it's really just a matter of time given the close proximity of both countries not allowing any time to properly verify the other side intentions. And then we have terrorists who will use the weapons as soon as they manage to get any (and considering the shape of Russian nuclear forces it's surprising that still didn't happen).
We're programmers. We're also human. We can morn loss of life, and remember momental occasions. We come from many backgrounds in many countries, brought together by a mutual interest. Understanding and empathising with each other today may let us work together tomorrow. I see now that you're fairly new here, so allow me to welcome you to The Code Project. It's all a bit much to take in at once - likely as not, initial impressions will be misleading. But give it a while, it all makes sense eventually (except for Bob :bob: :) ). You are right in thinking that the horror of the war in some ways explains the Bomb that ended it. But don't be mislead - human history is full of terrible, terrible wars and atrocities, and we will never seen an end to them while we persist in forgetting the aftermath. So that is what we remember when we remember Hiroshima - an end so terrible we hope never to see another. This, more than any other terror, must not be forgotten.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
-
And I believe that there have been condolences expressed here at the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Why don't you quit the knuckle-dragging, chest-thumping flag waving long enough to acknowledge that innocent people died on both sides. You might find that you're a better person for it.
Innocent people always die in a war, thats the a part about the whole thing. The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. There is no chest thumping or flag waving about it with me, I rode around in a ballistic missle submarine for 4 1/2 years and think that the use of nuclear weapons should be avoided at all costs. The bombing of Japan ending World War 2 accomplished 2 things, it ended the war and made it obvious what a horror nuclear war would be. Imagine instead that the US had had to try to invade the Japanese mainland. Do you think that the people in Tokyo would have been any more willing to surrender than the people of Saipan[^]? Imagine fighting a population of people who are willing to fight to the death believing their Emporer is God. Was dropping the bomb sad? Yes it was, but not something that a million servicemens families should regret Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
-
No, this thread started with RIP, and you ain't giving them any rest. pc128 wrote: no names calling will come from me here just the facts and carefully stated opinions. As "official" rules say... but there are also "unofficial" rules saying everything controversial goes to soapbox. A-bombing city with 250 000 people IS controversial topic. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyAnd so is raping and killing millions correct? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
-
Innocent people always die in a war, thats the a part about the whole thing. The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. There is no chest thumping or flag waving about it with me, I rode around in a ballistic missle submarine for 4 1/2 years and think that the use of nuclear weapons should be avoided at all costs. The bombing of Japan ending World War 2 accomplished 2 things, it ended the war and made it obvious what a horror nuclear war would be. Imagine instead that the US had had to try to invade the Japanese mainland. Do you think that the people in Tokyo would have been any more willing to surrender than the people of Saipan[^]? Imagine fighting a population of people who are willing to fight to the death believing their Emporer is God. Was dropping the bomb sad? Yes it was, but not something that a million servicemens families should regret Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. I made no statement about the US feeling guilty. In fact I do believe it was justified at the time. Furthermore, people here tend to be fairly well educated. Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? The point was to memorialize the people who died as a result of the use of the most horrific weapon ever developed. If you're unable to do that without spouting nationalistic crap, then don't say anything at all - or move your rant to the Soapbox, where it is more appropriate.
-
And so is raping and killing millions correct? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
WTF?? Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy