Small business startup advice
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Anyone got any advice on how to get a small business loan through a bank here in America? As in what is needed to impress them so they will actually give you some money. :) -Richard
Being self employed I have lots of advice. However, not knowing what type of business you are trying to start means you could be asking computer programmers for advice on how to get loans for an auto body shop start-up. It would really help if you told us as much as you can. That's my first piece of advice. Be prepared to fully disclose what you intend to potential lenders *and* advisors. :) Okay, harassing aside. I like a bit of what I've seen so far on this. I mostly like the AVOID DEBT advice. Companies that need debt to start are a concern to me. Companies that have started (been running for 2 or more years) and need debt to grow are exciting to me. I don't advise debt to get off the ground unless you are franchising. Even then if it isn't Subway or McDonalds or a franchise with equal recognition I still don't advise it. Having said that, this is America. America is where small business starts and then big business screws it all up. You need something to secure the loan and you need a solid idea. Small Business Development centers are a great idea but in practice can be a bit to beaurocratic in a lot of ways just depends on your style. What exactly is you are starting and what will the debt be used for? That will really help. I recently used debt to by a $5000 G5 MAC. That debt is payed of by my golden rule of only use debt for incoming work and make sure your debt is 1/6th your profit on the work and not a dime more. Which means your first payment on the project better pay off the debt. Trump has written some books that might be interesting to you as well. He has some very simple but powerful ideas on using debt and he believes it is a tool to use *not* avoid. But in using it you have to make sure you are using it correctly. Anyway... more information would help but the basic impression you have received is sound. You need a solid idea and then you need to be able to secure the loan with personal property or other assetts. If you have a really good idea and you are totally sold on it then get VC investing and go big. - Rex
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator.
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Anyone got any advice on how to get a small business loan through a bank here in America? As in what is needed to impress them so they will actually give you some money. :) -Richard
Speaking from experience... While this is not directly related to your acquisition of a loan, I do have some general advise (as it may affect the loan amount you request)... If you can structure your company to start with 1 (or more) employee(s) in addition to yourself it is a solid first step for the company. If you plan to start using just yourself as the chief cook and bottlewasher you may (will) run into the problem (at some point) where there is too much work for yourself - but not enough to justify another employee. And you will find that this will perpetuate to be a chronic problem until you finally take the plunge and hire someone. The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level. Finally, when you are so overloaded that you feel you must hire someone, you are clearly way to busy to spend your time placing ads, checking resumes, and performing interviews. And then assuming you hire someone you then need to train them to do things the way you want them. All at the time you are least able to afford the time to do it properly. Doing all this at the start when the company isn't swamped with work is the best time to deal with this. You might suggest that you can use contractors to take in some of the slack... Frankly I dont think that works with single employee companies. You invest soooo much intellectual capital into the project and then you bring someone in who has no vested interest in the company and give him access to some or all or your codebase (and all of your concept)... - and they only work (say) 20 hrs a week on your stuff. Personally I found this too risky as if they stole my concepts I did not have the financial where-with-all to properly litigate (and they know it). This can happen with Employees too but typically they are not competitors (contractors often are) and dont have the same mindset. Perhaps, not surprisingly, your clients will at some
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Speaking from experience... While this is not directly related to your acquisition of a loan, I do have some general advise (as it may affect the loan amount you request)... If you can structure your company to start with 1 (or more) employee(s) in addition to yourself it is a solid first step for the company. If you plan to start using just yourself as the chief cook and bottlewasher you may (will) run into the problem (at some point) where there is too much work for yourself - but not enough to justify another employee. And you will find that this will perpetuate to be a chronic problem until you finally take the plunge and hire someone. The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level. Finally, when you are so overloaded that you feel you must hire someone, you are clearly way to busy to spend your time placing ads, checking resumes, and performing interviews. And then assuming you hire someone you then need to train them to do things the way you want them. All at the time you are least able to afford the time to do it properly. Doing all this at the start when the company isn't swamped with work is the best time to deal with this. You might suggest that you can use contractors to take in some of the slack... Frankly I dont think that works with single employee companies. You invest soooo much intellectual capital into the project and then you bring someone in who has no vested interest in the company and give him access to some or all or your codebase (and all of your concept)... - and they only work (say) 20 hrs a week on your stuff. Personally I found this too risky as if they stole my concepts I did not have the financial where-with-all to properly litigate (and they know it). This can happen with Employees too but typically they are not competitors (contractors often are) and dont have the same mindset. Perhaps, not surprisingly, your clients will at some
David, You described my business and the challenges almost perfectly. However there are some things that I would like to ask you and the only reason would be for the knowledge benefit of the person who posted the question. I'm not seeking to debate you but my questions coming from almost identical situations to you and your answers would be of value I think. Do you mind if I ask you some questions? I also would not mind hearing your answers and the brainstorm might be good for both you and I. I think it would be a lot of fun and that's the spirit I would use in asking my questions. :) - Rex
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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David, You described my business and the challenges almost perfectly. However there are some things that I would like to ask you and the only reason would be for the knowledge benefit of the person who posted the question. I'm not seeking to debate you but my questions coming from almost identical situations to you and your answers would be of value I think. Do you mind if I ask you some questions? I also would not mind hearing your answers and the brainstorm might be good for both you and I. I think it would be a lot of fun and that's the spirit I would use in asking my questions. :) - Rex
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
I'd be happy to. Fire away. I think it would be insightful to all (certainly to me). Every situation is different so I wouldn't see it as a debate at all. I dont think there is any one right or wrong answer/technique in business. If you would rather private message me you can do so at drkozak@-spam-me-not-hotmail.com ps. I made some edits to the original post. You might want to re-read it just in case. Cheers, David
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I'll second that #2. Do whatever you can to avoid going into debt. Even if it might mean taking a second job instead of having that extra free time for a bit to save up the money. The debt in and of itself can drag down the business once you get going which adds yet another way the business can fail which you don't want.
I think this is well intended but I disagree here. Debt can be a problem and could cause the business to fail but if you dont go at your business 110%, I can almost guarantee with 100% certainty that it WILL fail. I have tried going the two job route and the demands of the second job left me too drained and wasted to properly do the first job. Eventually I had to draw a line in the sand. Now if I misunderstood that the intent is to have two jobs to build up a cash reserve before starting the business.. then I wholeheartedly agree... Providing that lost time is not lost opportunity.. If you have time to build a sufficient reserve then by all means take the second job. But once you commit. do so 110%. David
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Speaking from experience... While this is not directly related to your acquisition of a loan, I do have some general advise (as it may affect the loan amount you request)... If you can structure your company to start with 1 (or more) employee(s) in addition to yourself it is a solid first step for the company. If you plan to start using just yourself as the chief cook and bottlewasher you may (will) run into the problem (at some point) where there is too much work for yourself - but not enough to justify another employee. And you will find that this will perpetuate to be a chronic problem until you finally take the plunge and hire someone. The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level. Finally, when you are so overloaded that you feel you must hire someone, you are clearly way to busy to spend your time placing ads, checking resumes, and performing interviews. And then assuming you hire someone you then need to train them to do things the way you want them. All at the time you are least able to afford the time to do it properly. Doing all this at the start when the company isn't swamped with work is the best time to deal with this. You might suggest that you can use contractors to take in some of the slack... Frankly I dont think that works with single employee companies. You invest soooo much intellectual capital into the project and then you bring someone in who has no vested interest in the company and give him access to some or all or your codebase (and all of your concept)... - and they only work (say) 20 hrs a week on your stuff. Personally I found this too risky as if they stole my concepts I did not have the financial where-with-all to properly litigate (and they know it). This can happen with Employees too but typically they are not competitors (contractors often are) and dont have the same mindset. Perhaps, not surprisingly, your clients will at some
First I will say this. You are in Canada this subject is definitely a U.S. topic. But I still think there's probably a lot of overlap. Orcrist wrote: If you can structure your {snipped} The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: This is an interesting idea but I'm not sure I'm sold on it. Why? Well, I started out as a 1 man show and things were busy-busy-busy but workable. Yeah I think 80 hour weeks are not bad when you are starting out. The rule is 3-5 years to really build a business. So I just take what comes. When I was so busy I decided to have an employee. I hired him but had no idea that once I did that the U.S./Idaho was going to require A LOT of me to have him. Unemployment insurance, workers compensation, state level reports, payroll reports. It added a few hours a week to my already busy lifestyle. Administration alone was a killer. Problem number 2 was that employees are not entrepreneurs and they do not think like entrepreneurs. They will only do what you tell them and rarely if ever are they thinking "How can I increase profit either through savings or new business?" They just don't. In the U.S. employees will take on average about 15 hours a week from you and they will take their hourly wage plus + 20% from your business in *this* and *that*. Most importantly, starting with 2 when you don't have the income for 2 seems suicidal. Now my question to David, am I right? How do you get around wages and other burdens? I *had* an employee and am much more relaxed not having one again. Orcrist wrote: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. This makes me ask why is an employee better then? If it requires these things then it's best to make do until you can easily or manageably finance them on your own and with business history. Money is much easier to get when you can show history and profit. Orcrist wrote: Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level.<
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First I will say this. You are in Canada this subject is definitely a U.S. topic. But I still think there's probably a lot of overlap. Orcrist wrote: If you can structure your {snipped} The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: This is an interesting idea but I'm not sure I'm sold on it. Why? Well, I started out as a 1 man show and things were busy-busy-busy but workable. Yeah I think 80 hour weeks are not bad when you are starting out. The rule is 3-5 years to really build a business. So I just take what comes. When I was so busy I decided to have an employee. I hired him but had no idea that once I did that the U.S./Idaho was going to require A LOT of me to have him. Unemployment insurance, workers compensation, state level reports, payroll reports. It added a few hours a week to my already busy lifestyle. Administration alone was a killer. Problem number 2 was that employees are not entrepreneurs and they do not think like entrepreneurs. They will only do what you tell them and rarely if ever are they thinking "How can I increase profit either through savings or new business?" They just don't. In the U.S. employees will take on average about 15 hours a week from you and they will take their hourly wage plus + 20% from your business in *this* and *that*. Most importantly, starting with 2 when you don't have the income for 2 seems suicidal. Now my question to David, am I right? How do you get around wages and other burdens? I *had* an employee and am much more relaxed not having one again. Orcrist wrote: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. This makes me ask why is an employee better then? If it requires these things then it's best to make do until you can easily or manageably finance them on your own and with business history. Money is much easier to get when you can show history and profit. Orcrist wrote: Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level.<
lol, As you mentioned earlier your comments mirror my experience nearly exactly. and I came to the same conclusion that you did. It was better to operate on your own. Your experience supports my arguments 100%. But I should explain where I am coming from when I make my suggestions. I am going on the assumption the Mr. Parsons has a vision of a business venture that is farther reaching than that of a lone-wolf consultant. Typically a lone consultant doesn't need the business loan as there is usually little up-front costs. [Side note: And if he/she is planning to be a lone-wolf consultant, and they require a loan to do so, then they will likely fail because they if they clearly cant build up their personal balance sheet as an employee then they probably wont as a consultant (perhaps harsh but I believe realistic).] So assuming Mr. Parsons has bigger plans (and they have a Business Plan and and Idea that supports it) this venture will probably take several months of research and development to conclude. All things considered equal I would want to fund it (in-order) 1. personally 2. with a partner 3. through a VC If Mr. PArsons idea is THAT good (and he can take the risk - most cant - including me) then yes I would fund the second employee through the loan. Keep in mind that an extra employee should complete this research/development time faster and generate revenue sooner. So providing you plan for the expense in advance it should be manageable. I should point out that if you start with all of the government beaurocracy at the start it is something that falls into a steady rythym once you get over the initial hurdles. Doing it mid-stream is more stressful and complicated when you dont have the time to organize it. You will face it at some point if you add employees. may as well swallow that pill at the start. I have also seen too many companies that did not get a large enough loan (VC or bank) to fund their work to completion. They had to take side projects that completely stalled the main visionary project. Eventually their main project died and then shortly after that so did the companies. I myself had a grandiose vision of what I wanted my business to become but (i believe) similar to you I found the adjustments to ADD an employee into the established stream to be too high a cost. Dont get me wrong. I actually love being a lone consultant and have adjusted to the working lifestyle of feast and famine. Get job - work like hell - too busy to look for more work -- finish job -- sleep
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Speaking from experience... While this is not directly related to your acquisition of a loan, I do have some general advise (as it may affect the loan amount you request)... If you can structure your company to start with 1 (or more) employee(s) in addition to yourself it is a solid first step for the company. If you plan to start using just yourself as the chief cook and bottlewasher you may (will) run into the problem (at some point) where there is too much work for yourself - but not enough to justify another employee. And you will find that this will perpetuate to be a chronic problem until you finally take the plunge and hire someone. The shift from 1 to 2 employees is massive - I am not understating this... Just consider: How do you address office space (working from home is less than ideal when you hire an employee to work in your house), also computer hardware and software license costs, data and source code management, defect tracking, etc. Also you then have to change your mindset from being the "doer" to being the "facilitator". After hiring you will find yourself spending more of your time finding work to keep the employee fed/paid instead of doing the work. It is this change in mentality that is another difficult hurdle to cross, especially if you like to keep your hands dirty working at the grass level. Finally, when you are so overloaded that you feel you must hire someone, you are clearly way to busy to spend your time placing ads, checking resumes, and performing interviews. And then assuming you hire someone you then need to train them to do things the way you want them. All at the time you are least able to afford the time to do it properly. Doing all this at the start when the company isn't swamped with work is the best time to deal with this. You might suggest that you can use contractors to take in some of the slack... Frankly I dont think that works with single employee companies. You invest soooo much intellectual capital into the project and then you bring someone in who has no vested interest in the company and give him access to some or all or your codebase (and all of your concept)... - and they only work (say) 20 hrs a week on your stuff. Personally I found this too risky as if they stole my concepts I did not have the financial where-with-all to properly litigate (and they know it). This can happen with Employees too but typically they are not competitors (contractors often are) and dont have the same mindset. Perhaps, not surprisingly, your clients will at some
Orcrist wrote: "Umm Dave, what happens to my software if you get hit by a bus?" A legitimate concern. Depending on your clients technical abilities consider holding the source in escrow. That way if you go belly up, or, for business reasons decide to discontinue support for a particular product line your clients will not be left out in the cold. A code trust is not for every client and it is a tricky thing to set up and still protect your rights to use the code for other products. You should get legal advice if this sounds like something you would like to offer your clients. I would rather have my teeth drilled than do system testing! JimmyRopes
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lol, As you mentioned earlier your comments mirror my experience nearly exactly. and I came to the same conclusion that you did. It was better to operate on your own. Your experience supports my arguments 100%. But I should explain where I am coming from when I make my suggestions. I am going on the assumption the Mr. Parsons has a vision of a business venture that is farther reaching than that of a lone-wolf consultant. Typically a lone consultant doesn't need the business loan as there is usually little up-front costs. [Side note: And if he/she is planning to be a lone-wolf consultant, and they require a loan to do so, then they will likely fail because they if they clearly cant build up their personal balance sheet as an employee then they probably wont as a consultant (perhaps harsh but I believe realistic).] So assuming Mr. Parsons has bigger plans (and they have a Business Plan and and Idea that supports it) this venture will probably take several months of research and development to conclude. All things considered equal I would want to fund it (in-order) 1. personally 2. with a partner 3. through a VC If Mr. PArsons idea is THAT good (and he can take the risk - most cant - including me) then yes I would fund the second employee through the loan. Keep in mind that an extra employee should complete this research/development time faster and generate revenue sooner. So providing you plan for the expense in advance it should be manageable. I should point out that if you start with all of the government beaurocracy at the start it is something that falls into a steady rythym once you get over the initial hurdles. Doing it mid-stream is more stressful and complicated when you dont have the time to organize it. You will face it at some point if you add employees. may as well swallow that pill at the start. I have also seen too many companies that did not get a large enough loan (VC or bank) to fund their work to completion. They had to take side projects that completely stalled the main visionary project. Eventually their main project died and then shortly after that so did the companies. I myself had a grandiose vision of what I wanted my business to become but (i believe) similar to you I found the adjustments to ADD an employee into the established stream to be too high a cost. Dont get me wrong. I actually love being a lone consultant and have adjusted to the working lifestyle of feast and famine. Get job - work like hell - too busy to look for more work -- finish job -- sleep
I totally agree with that. You're very right. Any business person definitely needs to do enough research up front to make sure that they are starting in the correct position for sure. If you need X employees then you *just* do and you better know that going in. I totally agree with the bigger vision idea. You cannot run a restaurant for example with only one person to cook, clean, etc...
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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Orcrist wrote: "Umm Dave, what happens to my software if you get hit by a bus?" A legitimate concern. Depending on your clients technical abilities consider holding the source in escrow. That way if you go belly up, or, for business reasons decide to discontinue support for a particular product line your clients will not be left out in the cold. A code trust is not for every client and it is a tricky thing to set up and still protect your rights to use the code for other products. You should get legal advice if this sounds like something you would like to offer your clients. I would rather have my teeth drilled than do system testing! JimmyRopes
Thanks Jimmy, Actually I went another route. I found someone who is not locally competing with me and which I built a decent professional relationship with (who is also a lone consultant). We swap code repositories (encrpyted zips) for our projects (but no password). Our wives have copies of the passwords in the household Life Insurance folder. In the event of an accident, the plan is for the wives to pass the name of the friend to the client and provide them the passwords so that they can support the client in the event of a problem. This gives our customers some confidence that I have pre-vetted a suitable consultant to step in without them having to deal with the hassle of finding someone decent and their code is secure. This wouldnt work for everyone but it works for us because our work is pretty similar and it isnt worth killing the other person over it. Also the type of work is custom to a single client and not a open market product for the most part. Cheers, David
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Thanks Jimmy, Actually I went another route. I found someone who is not locally competing with me and which I built a decent professional relationship with (who is also a lone consultant). We swap code repositories (encrpyted zips) for our projects (but no password). Our wives have copies of the passwords in the household Life Insurance folder. In the event of an accident, the plan is for the wives to pass the name of the friend to the client and provide them the passwords so that they can support the client in the event of a problem. This gives our customers some confidence that I have pre-vetted a suitable consultant to step in without them having to deal with the hassle of finding someone decent and their code is secure. This wouldnt work for everyone but it works for us because our work is pretty similar and it isnt worth killing the other person over it. Also the type of work is custom to a single client and not a open market product for the most part. Cheers, David
I have a client that's a doctor and a good friend. He obviously will never compete and has his hands so full he cannot juggle them. His reputation is also on the line if he were to short-end me. So he's my trusted neutral party and he has all the information. - Rex
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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Thanks Jimmy, Actually I went another route. I found someone who is not locally competing with me and which I built a decent professional relationship with (who is also a lone consultant). We swap code repositories (encrpyted zips) for our projects (but no password). Our wives have copies of the passwords in the household Life Insurance folder. In the event of an accident, the plan is for the wives to pass the name of the friend to the client and provide them the passwords so that they can support the client in the event of a problem. This gives our customers some confidence that I have pre-vetted a suitable consultant to step in without them having to deal with the hassle of finding someone decent and their code is secure. This wouldnt work for everyone but it works for us because our work is pretty similar and it isnt worth killing the other person over it. Also the type of work is custom to a single client and not a open market product for the most part. Cheers, David
Orcrist wrote: I found someone who is not locally competing with me and which I built a decent professional relationship with (who is also a lone consultant). I have actually been supplied with business opportunities from people who are locally competing with me. Sounds strange but competition need not always be adversarial. Sometimes when they are too busy to handle the additional work, or, contractual agreements (non competition contracts signed with the prospective client's competitors that have not yet expired) they will give me a referral, and I do the same for them. Often, when I have given a competitor work and my work commitments ease or non-competition covenants expire, they keep an eye out and give me a heads up that some work is going out to bid or recommend me personally when there is work available. Often, I get an interview before the requirements are distributed and contract requirements are posted publicly, and sometimes even internally. Eyes and ears on the inside. Having a backup that can step right in is definitely a selling point with regard to the run away bus syndrome. I would rather have my teeth drilled than do system testing! JimmyRopes
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Orcrist wrote: I found someone who is not locally competing with me and which I built a decent professional relationship with (who is also a lone consultant). I have actually been supplied with business opportunities from people who are locally competing with me. Sounds strange but competition need not always be adversarial. Sometimes when they are too busy to handle the additional work, or, contractual agreements (non competition contracts signed with the prospective client's competitors that have not yet expired) they will give me a referral, and I do the same for them. Often, when I have given a competitor work and my work commitments ease or non-competition covenants expire, they keep an eye out and give me a heads up that some work is going out to bid or recommend me personally when there is work available. Often, I get an interview before the requirements are distributed and contract requirements are posted publicly, and sometimes even internally. Eyes and ears on the inside. Having a backup that can step right in is definitely a selling point with regard to the run away bus syndrome. I would rather have my teeth drilled than do system testing! JimmyRopes
Jimmy, Actually I think if you ran a poll of successful consultants (note the word successful) I suspect that, surprisingly enough, you might find that this kindof networking is actually the norm rather than the exception. Sounds like you got a pretty decent network of guys around you. Cheers David
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Jimmy, Actually I think if you ran a poll of successful consultants (note the word successful) I suspect that, surprisingly enough, you might find that this kindof networking is actually the norm rather than the exception. Sounds like you got a pretty decent network of guys around you. Cheers David
I've often wondered about the idea of creating loosely described arrangement with someone on the web as a backup. It would be fun and rewarding I think but I need to find a developer who knows layer 2 / layer 3 networking and systems administration as well as he/she knows code. That's the part I was mentioning about my business growing a way I never would have expected. I just wanted to cut code but a lot businesses I code for need network help to. It works out well for me. I do think it's possible and workable for me to have a dual (someone just like me) out there and that we scratch each others back and help one another *but* never compete directly in the same market (local area of city/state). If anyone is interested in pursuing this idea let me know. There are certainly risks but I could use the multiplicity. - Rex
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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Anyone got any advice on how to get a small business loan through a bank here in America? As in what is needed to impress them so they will actually give you some money. :) -Richard
If you can stay away from banker and all that stuff. The best way is to creat a ppackage in the Off time and start marketing. Once you get some customers the start on your own. Gettng loan from bank is bad since they ask for money when you least have it. Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 ww.keencomputer.com
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Anyone got any advice on how to get a small business loan through a bank here in America? As in what is needed to impress them so they will actually give you some money. :) -Richard
A general suggestion, try to come over as careful with a measured attitude towards your business. Whizzkids look good on film but that's about it. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Agree with the business plan comment above, but don't forget your target audience. This business plan is not a plan about how you'll run the business, expand wildly and take over the world. The person making the loan decision won't care about that (and won't believe you anyway). What you need to do is convince them that they are taking an acceptable risk lending you the money. In general, work out all your expenses, them double them. Then work out your expected revenue, and halve it. And don't expect to make any money in the first two or three years.
Graham Bradshaw wrote: but don't forget your target audience Very true, most back small business managers, also know nothing about how to run a business, which I find is the funniest thing about starting your own business.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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I think this is well intended but I disagree here. Debt can be a problem and could cause the business to fail but if you dont go at your business 110%, I can almost guarantee with 100% certainty that it WILL fail. I have tried going the two job route and the demands of the second job left me too drained and wasted to properly do the first job. Eventually I had to draw a line in the sand. Now if I misunderstood that the intent is to have two jobs to build up a cash reserve before starting the business.. then I wholeheartedly agree... Providing that lost time is not lost opportunity.. If you have time to build a sufficient reserve then by all means take the second job. But once you commit. do so 110%. David
I'd have to disagree with your disagreement. My business is becomming successful and this is exactly what I'm doing. It's EXTREMELY difficult. But I prefer it to going into debt.
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I'd have to disagree with your disagreement. My business is becomming successful and this is exactly what I'm doing. It's EXTREMELY difficult. But I prefer it to going into debt.
The are exceptions to every scenario, and it's good for you that you are capable of handling it. I dont think most people could (over a longer period)... especially if you have a family (which I do). I should point out that for a while (when I was doing the two job route) that I felt exactly how you are feeling now. The problem (in my case) is that it did not last. As I mentioned it eventually left me drained and unable to focus on the main part of my business. Quite conceivable it was because of the nature of the second job. It was engineering for land development (two different consulting type jobs). Problem was that the land development work got "hot" and deadlines were fierce. It always seemed that my 'main' job was getting second fiddle. I got great money but the main focus of my busineess was faltering. Perhaps if I worked as a security guard or a video store I might have been better positioned to handle the work. I still think my advise is sound but it is only a suggestion not a rule. Cheers, David