Microsoft rejects Visual Studio delay request

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

While I can sympathise with the request for a third beta (Beta 1 was practically unuseable for add-in developers, and Beta 2 has some nasties which we really would like to see fixed and tested in a Beta before we see the final release) I don't think delaying the programme much longer would be to anyone's benefit. A compromise solution may be to make a public release candidate available in (say) September, but I don't see that on the roadmap either. As a result we're almost forced to support Beta 2 (which believe me is not easy - even adding custom Options pages seems to crash it) until well after the product is formally released. Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

[Long Gone]

code-frog wrote: I see your point and I don't. Perhaps Mr. Newman can explain what his rush is? Could he elaborate on some new earth shattering feature that Visual Studio 2005 is going to give him that he is lacking in Visual Studio 2003? In fact why do we need a new release and not just a service pack for Visual Studio 2003? And why wasn’t Visual Studio 2003 a service pack to Visual Studio 2002. And why wasn’t Visual Studio 2002 a service pack to Visual Studio .NET, the original VS7 release. In fact all of these new releases of VS7 are giving what was originally promised in Visual Studio .NET and should have been supplied as service pack enhancements or were the promises just vacuous marketing hype. Even if there was some must have feature why rush something to market when beta test results have not been incorporated and known problems resolved? code-frog wrote: It's not that I worship Microsoft. Obviously I do not either, but I must pay the devil her due when it comes to Visual Studio. Sit down before reading this. I think Visual Studio is a very good development environment. Have you recovered yet? In fact as a product it seemed to be going in the right direction, until now, that is. To be fair, judging by the past performance of the VS development effort, it was probably some Billy Bigshits that made the decision to release before known problems were resolved and beta test results were incorporated. An analogy might be if you think that by putting some bean counter in charge of making medical decisions will result in better medical practice then you probably love the direction HMOs (health maintenance organization) in the US have gone in the past few years. Likewise, letting some bean counter determine quality standards for software will have equally disastrous effects on quality. code-frog wrote: It's not that I worship Microsoft. It's that I hold others to the same standard I can keep myself. Me too, and that is exactly the reason I would never release a product with known problems. code-frog wrote: We've crossed paths before and I don't think either of us made a real impression on the other. Quite the contrary, you have made an impression but I will pass on the chance to elaborate as it does not enter into how I view your arguments, as in points taken, not your being argumentative. code-frog wrote: <

[Eric Goedhart]

:( That's bad news, i was waiting for a free Visual Studio 2005 Beta 3 version! With friendly greetings, Yepper65

[code frog 0]

I'm giving you a 5 for this post. I've read a lot of your posts and this is one of the best I've seen in a while. I did not at all expect such an excellent response from you and I'm impressed (whether that means anything or not). You make really good arguments and the only thing I can say to you in response is that I think you and I distinctly represent 2 different but common consumers that exist. I think that Microsoft has to try and satisfy both consumers and that must be difficult to do. I will add this. I very much expect their November product to be significantly better in many, many ways than what the current experience is. If you get a copy of it I want you to single me out and let me know your thoughts. If you think it stinks I'll respect that for sure. For me I'll just have to wait for November to see what's going to happen. I'm optimistic and you are pessimistic with this product release and both views are necessary I think. I try not to be close minded and your reply certainly reminds that I am open minded on this issue and should be. As a consumer your view is common just as mine and it carries weight. Microsoft has to juggle eggs on this one and I'm glad I'm not the one that had to make the decision on what to do with this. I actually hadn't noticed your spelling or grammar until I saw your comment and I laughed. It was a funny comment. What can I say... You impressed the hell out me with your reply. It was compact you addressed some excellent points and I don't really think they are debatable. They represent one large view that Microsoft has to embrace to a greater or lesser degree. It would appear in *this* and many other cases that my view is the one they are adopting and perhaps that's not a good thing. Well anyway, your response was worth reading and I appreciated it. - Rex

My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.

[code frog 0]

Can I also add that I have been stupid enough to click your icon more than once to view your profile and each time I do I get a laugh. I love your bio. Now I have to ask this. You don't really live in Afghanistan do you? If that seems like a really arrogant or stupid question it isn't meant to be but it has me dying of curiousity... I mean... you don't wear underwear/underware you claim to have either married a {b_t_h} or been one that was married and now you live in Afghanistan. You either have as creative an imagination as I do or you have one fascinating story to tell. Either way, I'm cool with. If you are having fun with your profile power to you. I enjoy it each time I get forgetful and click it. You should put something stupid in there just for me because I know I'm going to click it again in no time. :doh: Catch you soon! Next time I cross your path I'm going to try like hell to show you a lot more respect as your reply to mine made me look like a sod.:doh:;P

My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will finish this project, in this life or the next. Slightly modified " from Gladiator. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.

[Long Gone]

First, let me respond to your previous post. Thank you for actually reading what I say. Too many people take a disliking to me based on my on-line persona, self professed b!tch, and can not get over it enough to actually read what I am saying, thus the post script waving them off before they send some drivel about how I misspelled something or my grammar is not right. It is pretty amazing how they like to attack you personally because they don’t like the way you say something. I have since put that statement in my signature and am putting the morons on notice if they comment about my spelling or grammar, and not the points I am trying to make, I will flame them in return. I believe that there is room for many different opinions about things. If we all thought the same there would be no point in discussing things, and life would be pretty boring. I have read the things you say to a lot of people and think that your technical advice is excellent. I agree with some of your personal opinions, on other than technical matters, and disagree with others. That’s what makes us all different. As you may have surmised I like diversity. As far as VS2005 is concerned, I do not know if I will ever actually use it. I passed on the opportunity to purchase VS.NET & VS2002 because, in my opinion, they were not mature enough as a product for my liking. As you well know Visual Studio is quite expensive. If I am going to part with that much cash it will be for something that I deem will give me return for my money, as in having a paying client that needs some feature not in VS2003. I was using VS6 until last year and it still works fine for non .Net applications but even I see the need to provide solutions using the new architecture eventually, so I went out and purchased VS2003. If VS2005 offers me some value, not just an incremental update to VS2003, I will purchase it. If, on the other hand, I do not see value for money, I will probably give it a pass and wait for VS2007 or VS2009 before I purchase an upgrade for VS2003, and that is only if there is something in the newer release that I need. I don’t like to spend money without a good reason. My experience with .NET, so far, is that my C# programs seem to run slower than similar native (not managed) C++ programs. I haven’t yet set up any comprehensive tests but will when I get some spare time. I am working on solving a particularly tricky intermittent problem in a multi threaded application at the moment and do not have the time to do anything else

[code frog 0]

H@c%erB!tch wrote: If I told you I was living in Botswana would you believe me? At this point yes. But I'd have to look up where that is. I'm way to Idaho to know very much about anything outside of this country. I actually had quite a travel budget set up to try and fix my hick ignorance my sick kid blew all that at $1 an ounce to feed her. My wife is amazing and try's to make me more open minded on a regular basis (it tends to close on it's own at times) and really thinks that me going around the world would be fun. If we didn't have a sick middle child we would both try to get on that show Amazing Race because we hate being ignorant Americans. We do love our country but our ignorance of other cultures is painful for us even. Your comments on VS and your reasons for spending verses not spending sound like something out of the best finance schools in the world. If the car you have runs well why get a new one? If the house you live in meets your needs why spend more money on something bigger or fancier. If VS2K3 meets your needs then why go to VS2K5? I can see your logic. I'm in more of a crunch. I have clients that know about VS and follow it closely. These people *really* do pay a tithe just to Mr. Gates on Monday. They will ask me if I'm using 2005 and why not. On the other side I have tons of people asking me for feedback on stuff before they invest. So I have to stay current. Thankfully MSDN Universal keeps all the bases covered and will included Vista and all the other 2005 products. My business is just big enough and just diverse enough where I don't have the power of choice at times I just have to eat it (the cost of product X) and sign up. I have yet to be at any Microsoft launch event though I would attend if both finances and kids were healthy at the same time out of curiousity. As far as the rest of what you typed I'm getting a kick out of it. Your profile is funny because I know that there are tons of people that really let you get under there skin and so they click on it your icon to go see it and there you are pretty much in the buff (a figure of speech) asking them what they are looking at. It's great. My sense of humor is just twisted enough to respect others for being slightly twisted because I think slightly twisted is the actual normal that society tries to hide by promoting wussey-butt-kissing-corporate-lip-sucking-dogs as the normal and desired standard. Ooops, did I really just type that? Oh well... It's how I feel.:laugh: - Rex

[Long Gone]

code-frog wrote: H@c%erB!tch wrote: If I told you I was living in Botswana would you believe me? At this point yes. I have two words to describe the place Okavango Delta. It is one of the last places on earth, even in Africa, where you actually experience what it was like to live on the planet thousands of years ago. Too many other places tout their National Parks and when you get there you travel on paved roads, scenic views are ruined by distant power lines, etc. In the Okavango Delta you will not see any of that and if you listen closely, and know what you are listening for, it is not unusual to hear lions talking to each other, they make coughing sounds, in that clump of trees right over there. Obviously, you don't go investigate. When you are lying in your tent at night you hear leopard sounds in the night, and I was lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time during mating season, elephants fighting. Elephants fighting are one of the most awesome things I have ever heard. Trees actually get knocked over. We went out to get a closer look but had to beat a hasty retreat when a third male trumpeted his candidacy from behind us. It would have been interesting but possibly fatal to stay where we were so we checked out the carnage after the contest was settled. Wilderbeast stampeeds are also awesome. code-frog wrote: I'm way to Idaho to know very much about anything outside of this country. Did you say Iowa? Just joking. I once suggested that a fellow from Idaho that he was from Cornstalk, Iowa and that folks who live in places where people outnumber livestock might think a bit differently then him. His reply was a classic. code-frog wrote: I have tons of people asking me for feedback on stuff before they invest. So I have to stay current. Thankfully MSDN Universal keeps all the bases covered and will included Vista and all the other 2005 products. I, for one, would appreciate your opinion about Vista and, especially, VS2005 when you get a chance to give them a try. code-frog wrote: wussey-butt-kissing-corporate-lip-sucking-dogs :omg::wtf::rolleyes::laugh: P.S. – for all you anal retentive folks out there tempted to comment on my spelling or grammar save your energy. I don’t care. Don't shoot! I'm only the piano player messenger. Beatress

[code frog 0]

Man, I'm wiping tears from my eyes... Tears of jealousy. Where I live you might here the mating calls of chipmunks and the occassional democrat (Idaho/Cornstock boasts 1 democrat per 90,000 republicans we erected a protected habitat for democrats as they are almost extinct here). The only males that tend to fight around here are red necks and it's usually just over the last beer or female tough to say. When I read about the things you describe I was half tempted to climb a tree and get to safety and I'm here in Idaho. I suppose you would get used to that. My dad was force recon and a bit looney in the 80's we were camping up in northern Idaho and a black panther came into our campsite. My dad knew he had 3 young kids that would probably taste good so he grabs a chefs knife and crawls out the tent trailer door on his belly in his tidy whities. He's gone for what seems like hours and comes back announcing it won't be a threat anymore. To this day I don't know what he did (I need to ask) he spent a lot of time in the jungles of SEA and had to hunt down tigers that were killing GI's at times. All this to say maybe you get used to being around things that could easily eat or trample you but at this time I don't think I could do that not without some medication. You strike me as the person to easily take that in stride though and around someone like you I could probably stomach it but it would be tough at first. I'd feel better with a desert eagle .50 caliber at my hip though and maybe 2 more on my back. With a few grenades with preset fuses and maybe some claymore mines on the perimeter and some night vision goggles and motion sensing machine guns ... have I left anything out? It's easier to be brave when you can blow up a small continent with everything you are carrying. :) Reminds me a bit of the bear expert that was eaten by his bears while studying his bears. His girlfriend became the side dish when she tried to save him using a frying pan. That must have been a terrifying way to go. I will certainly let you know of Vista and any of the other stuff as well. I wish I could renew my MSDN here. You could last time I was here. Now I'm going to have to renew it from a wholesaler but I'll donate to CP using the $240 link. This place has been a gold mine of information for me and it's saved me $1000's of dollars just in the referrals. I gotta help Chris out and pay back the kindness. Top places I'd like to see before I'm old and near death. Southeast Asia, Thailand and Cambodia (Want to see all the places

[Long Gone]

code-frog wrote: Man, I'm wiping tears from my eyes... Tears of jealousy. Where I live you might here the mating calls of chipmunks and the occassional democrat Democrats are known for their sex drive. It scares me to even think of what they can do with small animals. code-frog wrote: The only males that tend to fight around here are red necks and it's usually just over the last beer or female tough to say . Not unlike the elephants except that the elephants do not have the advantage of beer muscles. code-frog wrote: we were camping up in northern Idaho and a black panther came into our campsite. Way too much contact with humans. The universal wild animal deterrent is a fire. You didn't mention if you had a campfire (what camping trip would be complete without one) but if it came into your campsite then it is was a very dangerous animal. code-frog wrote: My dad knew he had 3 young kids that would probably taste good so he grabs a chefs knife and crawls out the tent trailer door on his belly in his tidy whities. Too bad you don't have a picture of that you could share with us. code-frog wrote: He's gone for what seems like hours and comes back announcing it won't be a threat anymore. To this day I don't know what he did (I need to ask) Please share it with me when you do find out what happened. It has to be an interesting story. My cousin recently had an encounter with a mountain lion at his house in Western North Carolina. He went into his garage and heard this strange muffled howling sound. Looking under his truck, where the noise was coming from, he saw a mountain lion which was starting to emerge in a hunched position like you see a house cat assume just before pouncing on a mouse or other pray. He took an industrial broom, (the type with a wooden head parallel to the ground with stout bristles sticking out, not your garden variety kitchen broom) and whacked the cat in the head. It ran out and hid under his porch so he went inside the house and came out with a pellet gun. He shot the cat and it ran off into the forest, he lives on the side of a hill in the Blue Ridge Mountain Range. Notice I said hill because the East Coast doesn’t really have mountains comparable with the Rockies. He reported it to the local forest rangers who were concerned because it was very unusual behavior for a mountain lion