Contractors?
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As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? What are possible gaps between contracts, and how you are not going into a nervous breakdown during those periods.
sergeyv2002 wrote: As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? I found some truly awful ones on rentacoder. All the rest came via code project, namely, people who read my articles, asked me for help, and when I offered it decided they'd rather pay me to do it, and people who those clients have recommended to me. sergeyv2002 wrote: What are possible gaps between contracts Sometimes 6 months, although since I got my MVP, I am mostly turning work away. sergeyv2002 wrote: how you are not going into a nervous breakdown during those periods. The trick with any small business is to make and save enough in the busy times to get through the slow times. In my case, I have a day job :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? What are possible gaps between contracts, and how you are not going into a nervous breakdown during those periods.
sergeyv2002 wrote: As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? What works for me: Internet presence: website, blog, articles on CP At least one high-visibility "vogue" project with google ads, keywords, blogs, forums, etc. A couple longterm, but not necessarily full-time, clients (steady income during the lulls) "Networking", meaning, get out and meet people and tell them what you do. You'd be amazed how many jobs started with "oh, you do programming? I need xyz". Luck Amazingly, I have never had to seek contract work. It seems to find me. But I do recommend a contracting house--years ago, I found a great client that I still work with as a result. And the other clients, although short term projects, were great references and contacts for further clients. Marc My website
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sergeyv2002 wrote: As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? I found some truly awful ones on rentacoder. All the rest came via code project, namely, people who read my articles, asked me for help, and when I offered it decided they'd rather pay me to do it, and people who those clients have recommended to me. sergeyv2002 wrote: What are possible gaps between contracts Sometimes 6 months, although since I got my MVP, I am mostly turning work away. sergeyv2002 wrote: how you are not going into a nervous breakdown during those periods. The trick with any small business is to make and save enough in the busy times to get through the slow times. In my case, I have a day job :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: although since I got my MVP, I am mostly turning work away. Interesting. I must not be using my MVP status correctly. Got any pointers? Marc My website
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Christian Graus wrote: although since I got my MVP, I am mostly turning work away. Interesting. I must not be using my MVP status correctly. Got any pointers? Marc My website
Latest Articles: Object Comparer String HelpersHere's a hint : I didn't know you were one. Although, it could be co-incidence, most of the work I'm getting at the moment is from recommendations through one guy I've been working for the past 10 months, and continue to work for. But I'd have thought your visibility here would be as high as mine or higher, article wise. One thing tho, most jobs for me start with image processing, via those articles, and segue into other work from there. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Here's a hint : I didn't know you were one. Although, it could be co-incidence, most of the work I'm getting at the moment is from recommendations through one guy I've been working for the past 10 months, and continue to work for. But I'd have thought your visibility here would be as high as mine or higher, article wise. One thing tho, most jobs for me start with image processing, via those articles, and segue into other work from there. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: I didn't know you were one. LOL! Well, I took it out of my sig after a few months. This is my second year now. Christian Graus wrote: One thing tho, most jobs for me start with image processing, via those articles, and segue into other work from there. Whereas, most of mine come from the MyXaml articles and website. Thanks for the feedback! I'll try working on my MVP visibility. Marc My website
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Christian Graus wrote: I didn't know you were one. LOL! Well, I took it out of my sig after a few months. This is my second year now. Christian Graus wrote: One thing tho, most jobs for me start with image processing, via those articles, and segue into other work from there. Whereas, most of mine come from the MyXaml articles and website. Thanks for the feedback! I'll try working on my MVP visibility. Marc My website
Latest Articles: Object Comparer String HelpersMarc Clifton wrote: This is my second year now. Cool - I guess I never noticed because I had no idea what an MVP was until I became one. So, see you in Seattle then ? I'm there from the Monday, and hoping for some sort of CP get together on the Tuesday night. Marc Clifton wrote: Whereas, most of mine come from the MyXaml articles and website. I'm always late to the party, I've just worked out what XaML is through using WinFX. So you think there's a big future in this stuff ? The advantage I can see with Avalon is if people have it installed, then you can write a desktop and a web app in the one step, and deliver over the web ( i.e. replace Flash ). The net effect would be the same, I would have thought, you have a series of articles on a specialised subject. Perhaps when WinFX goes into public use, you'll get lots of work out of it... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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For a contractor, "gaps between contracts" = vacation.
This vacation time can be used to improve / build solutions that you can offer to your existing and/or prospective clients. Or experiment with new tech, get certification etc. But obviously this doesn't pay the bills so you need to keep unpaid vacation to a minimum. I could do with some to be honest... obviously i'd prefer paid vacation, but that's just one of the sacrifices you make as a contractor.
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Marc Clifton wrote: This is my second year now. Cool - I guess I never noticed because I had no idea what an MVP was until I became one. So, see you in Seattle then ? I'm there from the Monday, and hoping for some sort of CP get together on the Tuesday night. Marc Clifton wrote: Whereas, most of mine come from the MyXaml articles and website. I'm always late to the party, I've just worked out what XaML is through using WinFX. So you think there's a big future in this stuff ? The advantage I can see with Avalon is if people have it installed, then you can write a desktop and a web app in the one step, and deliver over the web ( i.e. replace Flash ). The net effect would be the same, I would have thought, you have a series of articles on a specialised subject. Perhaps when WinFX goes into public use, you'll get lots of work out of it... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: So, see you in Seattle then ? I'm there from the Monday, and hoping for some sort of CP get together on the Tuesday night. Ah, sadly no. My son gets back on Friday from spending 3 weeks with his mom, and I'm eager to spend some time with him before school starts. Besides, I've never been one to really get much out of these convention things. Maybe it's me. Christian Graus wrote: So you think there's a big future in this stuff ? Well, if I have anything to do about it, using XML for UI's is just the tip of the iceburg for declarative programming in general. The separation between imperative and declarative code is such a valuable architectural technique, that I wouldn't program without it. To declaratively program the structure/state of the application and imperatively program the behavior has saved me countless hours of refactoring when a structural/state change has been needed, or when a new behavior needs to be plugged into an existing application. (ok, I'll get off the grandstand now) Marc My website
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As one who never tried to be self-employed I'm wondering how do you guys find clients? What are possible gaps between contracts, and how you are not going into a nervous breakdown during those periods.
I once heard someone say that contractors are programmers who could not get permanent jobs. I know that sounds inflammatory but I don't mean it to be. Wouldn't you always want a permanent job though given the benefits and all?
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Christian Graus wrote: So, see you in Seattle then ? I'm there from the Monday, and hoping for some sort of CP get together on the Tuesday night. Ah, sadly no. My son gets back on Friday from spending 3 weeks with his mom, and I'm eager to spend some time with him before school starts. Besides, I've never been one to really get much out of these convention things. Maybe it's me. Christian Graus wrote: So you think there's a big future in this stuff ? Well, if I have anything to do about it, using XML for UI's is just the tip of the iceburg for declarative programming in general. The separation between imperative and declarative code is such a valuable architectural technique, that I wouldn't program without it. To declaratively program the structure/state of the application and imperatively program the behavior has saved me countless hours of refactoring when a structural/state change has been needed, or when a new behavior needs to be plugged into an existing application. (ok, I'll get off the grandstand now) Marc My website
Latest Articles: Object Comparer String HelpersMarc Clifton wrote: My son gets back on Friday from spending 3 weeks with his mom, and I'm eager to spend some time with him before school starts. Fair enough. Divorced with kids must suck.... Marc Clifton wrote: I've never been one to really get much out of these convention things. Maybe it's me. For me, the best bit is the inside info we get, meeting the product groups and so on. But I'm also using the trip to meet with the guy in Texas I work for, to be honest, that holds more value for me overall. Marc Clifton wrote: Well, if I have anything to do about it, using XML for UI's is just the tip of the iceburg for declarative programming in general. The separation between imperative and declarative code is such a valuable architectural technique, that I wouldn't program without it. To declaratively program the structure/state of the application and imperatively program the behavior has saved me countless hours of refactoring when a structural/state change has been needed, or when a new behavior needs to be plugged into an existing application. Interesting.... I'm a real beginner at this, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the use of it. I guess I should read your articles ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Marc Clifton wrote: My son gets back on Friday from spending 3 weeks with his mom, and I'm eager to spend some time with him before school starts. Fair enough. Divorced with kids must suck.... Marc Clifton wrote: I've never been one to really get much out of these convention things. Maybe it's me. For me, the best bit is the inside info we get, meeting the product groups and so on. But I'm also using the trip to meet with the guy in Texas I work for, to be honest, that holds more value for me overall. Marc Clifton wrote: Well, if I have anything to do about it, using XML for UI's is just the tip of the iceburg for declarative programming in general. The separation between imperative and declarative code is such a valuable architectural technique, that I wouldn't program without it. To declaratively program the structure/state of the application and imperatively program the behavior has saved me countless hours of refactoring when a structural/state change has been needed, or when a new behavior needs to be plugged into an existing application. Interesting.... I'm a real beginner at this, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the use of it. I guess I should read your articles ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
What you should most definitely do is read his early articles. That was back in the day when he would ask me questions about XML. I've still got this huge pride issue about teaching Marc Clifton something... :rolleyes:
[Cheshire] I can't afford those plastic things to cover the electric sockets so I just draw bunny faces on the electric outlets to scare the kids away from them... [RLtim] Newsflash! Kids aren't afraid of bunnies. [Cheshire] Oh they will be... -Bash.org
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Marc Clifton wrote: My son gets back on Friday from spending 3 weeks with his mom, and I'm eager to spend some time with him before school starts. Fair enough. Divorced with kids must suck.... Marc Clifton wrote: I've never been one to really get much out of these convention things. Maybe it's me. For me, the best bit is the inside info we get, meeting the product groups and so on. But I'm also using the trip to meet with the guy in Texas I work for, to be honest, that holds more value for me overall. Marc Clifton wrote: Well, if I have anything to do about it, using XML for UI's is just the tip of the iceburg for declarative programming in general. The separation between imperative and declarative code is such a valuable architectural technique, that I wouldn't program without it. To declaratively program the structure/state of the application and imperatively program the behavior has saved me countless hours of refactoring when a structural/state change has been needed, or when a new behavior needs to be plugged into an existing application. Interesting.... I'm a real beginner at this, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the use of it. I guess I should read your articles ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: Divorced with kids must suck.... Yup. I sometimes wonder if it was the right decision, and this is 11 years later! But I always come back to the thought that you can only change yourself, you can can't change someone else. And I wasn't willing to change myself to the point of such compromise. Christian Graus wrote: I guess I should read your articles ? I'd be flattered. This one: Comparing Declarative And Imperative Programming[^] is probably the best one, as it encompasses techniques that go beyond just UI definition. I have a blog entry[^] on declarative programming in a n-tier environment that is a "thinking out loud" concept piece that you might find interesting as well. As you can imagine, I can discuss these things to the end of time, and am more than willing to do so! Marc My website
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What you should most definitely do is read his early articles. That was back in the day when he would ask me questions about XML. I've still got this huge pride issue about teaching Marc Clifton something... :rolleyes:
[Cheshire] I can't afford those plastic things to cover the electric sockets so I just draw bunny faces on the electric outlets to scare the kids away from them... [RLtim] Newsflash! Kids aren't afraid of bunnies. [Cheshire] Oh they will be... -Bash.org
David Stone wrote: I've still got this huge pride issue about teaching Marc Clifton something... LOL! And I have you and leppie to thank! (IIRC, leppie suggested using reflection and type converters, and the rest was history!) Marc My website
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Christian Graus wrote: Divorced with kids must suck.... Yup. I sometimes wonder if it was the right decision, and this is 11 years later! But I always come back to the thought that you can only change yourself, you can can't change someone else. And I wasn't willing to change myself to the point of such compromise. Christian Graus wrote: I guess I should read your articles ? I'd be flattered. This one: Comparing Declarative And Imperative Programming[^] is probably the best one, as it encompasses techniques that go beyond just UI definition. I have a blog entry[^] on declarative programming in a n-tier environment that is a "thinking out loud" concept piece that you might find interesting as well. As you can imagine, I can discuss these things to the end of time, and am more than willing to do so! Marc My website
Latest Articles: Object Comparer String HelpersMarc Clifton wrote: As you can imagine, I can discuss these things to the end of time, and am more than willing to do so! Thanks, I'm downloading that article for offline reading, and I'm sure you'll hear more from me soon. Like I have time to do this sort of research, but I need to make time, I think. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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I once heard someone say that contractors are programmers who could not get permanent jobs. I know that sounds inflammatory but I don't mean it to be. Wouldn't you always want a permanent job though given the benefits and all?
I think many programmers here would consider themselves more "code poets"... like writers who don't want to work for a sports mag or the local newspaper. I find many devs here are very brave (at least in my eyes) to have the juevos to be their own boss. Personally, I like the stability and the benefits, and I really like working for a big company (surprisingly enough). I know the dinero's there for those who wanna take the risk, but that's life... ~Nitron.
ññòòïðïðB A
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I think many programmers here would consider themselves more "code poets"... like writers who don't want to work for a sports mag or the local newspaper. I find many devs here are very brave (at least in my eyes) to have the juevos to be their own boss. Personally, I like the stability and the benefits, and I really like working for a big company (surprisingly enough). I know the dinero's there for those who wanna take the risk, but that's life... ~Nitron.
ññòòïðïðB A
startI think your right in that for those people who can make it as a contractor and do well then good for them. I would imagine that there are more that don't. I doubt I could, which is why I am glad I have a full time position.
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What you should most definitely do is read his early articles. That was back in the day when he would ask me questions about XML. I've still got this huge pride issue about teaching Marc Clifton something... :rolleyes:
[Cheshire] I can't afford those plastic things to cover the electric sockets so I just draw bunny faces on the electric outlets to scare the kids away from them... [RLtim] Newsflash! Kids aren't afraid of bunnies. [Cheshire] Oh they will be... -Bash.org
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I once heard someone say that contractors are programmers who could not get permanent jobs. I know that sounds inflammatory but I don't mean it to be. Wouldn't you always want a permanent job though given the benefits and all?
I think you'll find that most contractors do it as a lifestyle choice, and shudder at the thought of being a permanent employee. I've found contractors generally fall into 2 camps: - - Those who do it for a quick buck, for a few years. - Those for whom contracting (working for ones self) is a career choice. Al Einstien wrote: contractors are programmers who could not get permanent jobs Yeah, these people fall into the 1st category and their primary skill is the art of the "blag" :) Phil Harding.
myBlog [^] | mySite [^] -
I once heard someone say that contractors are programmers who could not get permanent jobs. I know that sounds inflammatory but I don't mean it to be. Wouldn't you always want a permanent job though given the benefits and all?
Actually, I think it is due to a desire to be independent. Many years ago (back before the industrial age) it seemed like everyone had their own business of some form be it a farm, ranch, store, etc. In more modern times, we are brainwashed at young ages that you need to find an employer, work hard to build their business and hopefully retire then finally enjoy life. The old idea of owning your own business and being your own boss was lost for most people. Computers luckily allow many to be their own boss and own their own lucrative business (providing you have the skill and business since -- I am still working on the latter ;) ) with little or no startup capital. It is not for everyone, but for those that still enjoy the idea of independence, it is worth the risks. In addition, I believe that contractors actually need more skills than demanded by many positions, as they are the first line of cuts in a budget and usually carry more responsibility than staffers. They also are the first blamed if things go wrong and the last credited when things go good. Of course, this is dependant on the type of contracts. Rocky <>< My Blog[^]
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Make that unpaid vacation. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
The trick is to charge enough to cover your vacations.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)