Gas Prices
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John Cardinal wrote: I'd say it's nice to see Americans starting to pay what much of the rest of the world has been paying for years except that our gas prices are also going up as well. I would suggest that about 80-85% of your cost is taxes - not the true cost of the fuel. Don't blame us for your Gov. cradle to grave group care mentality. Richard Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
Richard Stringer wrote: I would suggest that about 80-85% of your cost is taxes - not the true cost of the fuel. Don't blame us for your Gov. cradle to grave group care mentality. And 1/3 of our savings is direct support, transfers of monies, to oil companies from income tax. So even if it looks low at the pump, you are still paying much more, it's just hidden by making transfers in the highway bills direct from treasury rather than captured at the pump. Personally I doubt anyone is paying less or more, but it would be impossible to know because money changes hands in so many different ways in each country to make it impossible to judge the true cost of gasoline in any country, including the USA. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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While I'm in total support of developing alternatives, especially clean alternatives to petrol, the reason the oil prices are going up is not from lack of supply of crude. It's from lack of refining capacity. There are two reasons for this: greed and the "not in my backyard" syndrome. Everyone is refusing to have refineries built in their communities which, of course, feeds into the oil companies desire for higher prices. Oil companies have gotten "smart" and have stopped even trying to build refineries, which feeds the greed. So is this going to cause more research and development into and of energy alternatives? In a word: NO!
I'm a businessman, you're a businessman. What does greed have to do with your discussion? Maybe I'm parsing your words, but greed I think should be replaced by reasonable return on investment? C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
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Douglas Troy wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Douglas Troy wrote: No Michel, you shouldn't be happy at all ... Oh yes, I am, for the same reason stated above.:zzz: Douglas Troy wrote: And if everyone wants an alternative fuel car, then selling my old car to purchase a new one, is kind of, well, pointless ... isn't it. You could sell it to a museum. And don't be too emotional about it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote: Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. This is ridiculous that you would even suggest as much. First off, your spending more on gas isn't going to drive the United States govenment into R&D mode for an alternative fuel source. Try something simple like putting pen to paper, as I have many times, and write them about it ... that's what people should be doing. Your approach just puts everyone into a cash crunch. Michel Prévost wrote: Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, They're not supposed to Michel, we're not a communist soceity nor socialist ... it's left up to "us" the "people" to make this kind of thing happen. Again - pen to paper works well. While I would love to see the government take more control over such things, that's not their intended purpose! Michel Prévost wrote: your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. I can't speak for him nor what he knows or doesn't know ... but the decision(s) made weren't made just because Iraq has oil production; it's one of many "theories" with no proof. And while I do place a some merit to those theories, without proof of such, I will not support it. Michel Prévost wrote: You could sell it to a museum. And don't be too emotional about it. Very cute. It's going to have to be one big museum, since there's approixmately 100,000,000 people that are going to need one of your "alternative fuel driven cars"; that's about half the current population of the United States (this is a "guess" on how many of those people drive). Here's a plan for us both Tell you what, let's drop the cost of gas, so I can feed my kids and keep a roof over my head, and you can take your disposable income and fund the R&D for an alternative fuel source and a car that will use it; as well as figure out how to replace all the current gas stations (that entire infrastructure) and when you're done, you can give one to me and my family for free, since I can't afford a new car anyway. Oh, and while you're at it, perhaps you can come up with a method to recycle all the cars we'll be giving to that museum you mentioned (since they won't have room for all of them) ... I'm certain I've overlooked about 100
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Unfortunately the dirty little secret of hybrid cars is that they are *not* the most fuel efficent automobiles on the market. A small car with a fuel efficient modern diesel engine gets *far* better mileage than any hybrid on the market today for a hell of a lot less money. Don't expect leadership from American auto makers, everyone seems content to think that they don't need to provide it because they are only supposed to respond to what customers want, not offer new alternatives that are risky.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
If you multiply the mileage with the "cleanliness factor", which is better? Good music: In my rosary[^]
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Douglas Troy wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Douglas Troy wrote: No Michel, you shouldn't be happy at all ... Oh yes, I am, for the same reason stated above.:zzz: Douglas Troy wrote: And if everyone wants an alternative fuel car, then selling my old car to purchase a new one, is kind of, well, pointless ... isn't it. You could sell it to a museum. And don't be too emotional about it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Are you in lala land? Cartel? When was the last time you saw government do anything good? Get someone who can turn a profit on it and get the f out of the way. What you DON'T want is a government cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit. But this statement makes you look like an IDIOT. The $$ goes right back into the Iraqi economy to help rebuild the infrastructure. We may not be perfect, but I know anti-American BS when I see it. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Horseshit. It's all a food chain. About the time you go "get the rich guys! yeah, they deserve it." the government will be coming for you. Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Then go put a company together and do it. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
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Shog9 wrote: Ah. So, it goes to pay for things like roads and such? Awww... No. We've got a 'road tax' for that. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
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Michel Prévost wrote: Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. This is ridiculous that you would even suggest as much. First off, your spending more on gas isn't going to drive the United States govenment into R&D mode for an alternative fuel source. Try something simple like putting pen to paper, as I have many times, and write them about it ... that's what people should be doing. Your approach just puts everyone into a cash crunch. Michel Prévost wrote: Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, They're not supposed to Michel, we're not a communist soceity nor socialist ... it's left up to "us" the "people" to make this kind of thing happen. Again - pen to paper works well. While I would love to see the government take more control over such things, that's not their intended purpose! Michel Prévost wrote: your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. I can't speak for him nor what he knows or doesn't know ... but the decision(s) made weren't made just because Iraq has oil production; it's one of many "theories" with no proof. And while I do place a some merit to those theories, without proof of such, I will not support it. Michel Prévost wrote: You could sell it to a museum. And don't be too emotional about it. Very cute. It's going to have to be one big museum, since there's approixmately 100,000,000 people that are going to need one of your "alternative fuel driven cars"; that's about half the current population of the United States (this is a "guess" on how many of those people drive). Here's a plan for us both Tell you what, let's drop the cost of gas, so I can feed my kids and keep a roof over my head, and you can take your disposable income and fund the R&D for an alternative fuel source and a car that will use it; as well as figure out how to replace all the current gas stations (that entire infrastructure) and when you're done, you can give one to me and my family for free, since I can't afford a new car anyway. Oh, and while you're at it, perhaps you can come up with a method to recycle all the cars we'll be giving to that museum you mentioned (since they won't have room for all of them) ... I'm certain I've overlooked about 100
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Michel Prévost wrote: Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. This is ridiculous that you would even suggest as much. First off, your spending more on gas isn't going to drive the United States govenment into R&D mode for an alternative fuel source. Try something simple like putting pen to paper, as I have many times, and write them about it ... that's what people should be doing. Your approach just puts everyone into a cash crunch. Michel Prévost wrote: Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, They're not supposed to Michel, we're not a communist soceity nor socialist ... it's left up to "us" the "people" to make this kind of thing happen. Again - pen to paper works well. While I would love to see the government take more control over such things, that's not their intended purpose! Michel Prévost wrote: your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. I can't speak for him nor what he knows or doesn't know ... but the decision(s) made weren't made just because Iraq has oil production; it's one of many "theories" with no proof. And while I do place a some merit to those theories, without proof of such, I will not support it. Michel Prévost wrote: You could sell it to a museum. And don't be too emotional about it. Very cute. It's going to have to be one big museum, since there's approixmately 100,000,000 people that are going to need one of your "alternative fuel driven cars"; that's about half the current population of the United States (this is a "guess" on how many of those people drive). Here's a plan for us both Tell you what, let's drop the cost of gas, so I can feed my kids and keep a roof over my head, and you can take your disposable income and fund the R&D for an alternative fuel source and a car that will use it; as well as figure out how to replace all the current gas stations (that entire infrastructure) and when you're done, you can give one to me and my family for free, since I can't afford a new car anyway. Oh, and while you're at it, perhaps you can come up with a method to recycle all the cars we'll be giving to that museum you mentioned (since they won't have room for all of them) ... I'm certain I've overlooked about 100
I apologize, you are right. Let's keep consuming oil until the last drop. At that point, you will see how useless you car and gas stations are. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Michel Prévost wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Are you in lala land? Cartel? When was the last time you saw government do anything good? Get someone who can turn a profit on it and get the f out of the way. What you DON'T want is a government cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit. But this statement makes you look like an IDIOT. The $$ goes right back into the Iraqi economy to help rebuild the infrastructure. We may not be perfect, but I know anti-American BS when I see it. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Horseshit. It's all a food chain. About the time you go "get the rich guys! yeah, they deserve it." the government will be coming for you. Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Then go put a company together and do it. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
CharlieG wrote: but I know anti-American BS when I see it. I know paranoia when I see it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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CharlieG wrote: but I know anti-American BS when I see it. I know paranoia when I see it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
pffft... you're implying I'm paranoid? You're not paranoid if they *really* are out to get you (so the joke goes). I'm *objecting* to the factually FALSE statement that the US "invaded" Iraq for the oil. I'm not paranoid, but I did take offense. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
probably to discourage people from buying hummers. A thing we are not accustomed to in North America :rolleyes: -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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pffft... you're implying I'm paranoid? You're not paranoid if they *really* are out to get you (so the joke goes). I'm *objecting* to the factually FALSE statement that the US "invaded" Iraq for the oil. I'm not paranoid, but I did take offense. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
Did I imply that? You must be kidding, it is a known fact that it was because Saddam Hussein was about to destroy America, with the help of his Al-Qaeda friends. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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I'm a businessman, you're a businessman. What does greed have to do with your discussion? Maybe I'm parsing your words, but greed I think should be replaced by reasonable return on investment? C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
CharlieG wrote: greed have to do with your discussion CharlieG wrote: reasonable return on investment Greed == UNreasonably HIGH return on investment
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Michel Prévost wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Are you in lala land? Cartel? When was the last time you saw government do anything good? Get someone who can turn a profit on it and get the f out of the way. What you DON'T want is a government cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit. But this statement makes you look like an IDIOT. The $$ goes right back into the Iraqi economy to help rebuild the infrastructure. We may not be perfect, but I know anti-American BS when I see it. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Horseshit. It's all a food chain. About the time you go "get the rich guys! yeah, they deserve it." the government will be coming for you. Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Then go put a company together and do it. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
CharlieG wrote: When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit Wouldn't that be nice if your president would be like you: "When I see Saddam Hussein carrying weapons of mass destruction, I'll believe Iraq has such weapons" -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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That's dollars per gallon, I presume? Have you ever been to the UK? We're currently paying upwards of 90 pence per litre for our petrol That works out at $1.62 / litre which is $6.13 per gallon So stop complaining ;P (Most of the cost of petrol for us goes in Tax, btw) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
I'm curious to know what the average daily commute for people in the UK is. I'm about 20 minutes from my office, but I know many people that drive at least an hour +/- (45miles + city congestion) one way every day.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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I apologize, you are right. Let's keep consuming oil until the last drop. At that point, you will see how useless you car and gas stations are. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
Shog9 wrote: So what is the gas tax used for? A question that is asked often. It's just another income stream for the government. Whilst some of the money does end up being spent on the transport network, most of it is probably used to fill the holes in other budgets. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Unfortunately the dirty little secret of hybrid cars is that they are *not* the most fuel efficent automobiles on the market. A small car with a fuel efficient modern diesel engine gets *far* better mileage than any hybrid on the market today for a hell of a lot less money. Don't expect leadership from American auto makers, everyone seems content to think that they don't need to provide it because they are only supposed to respond to what customers want, not offer new alternatives that are risky.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
Absolutely. I just purchased a 2003 Honda Civic LX. I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
If I remeber correctly the bulk of it goes to the "general fund".
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
Douglas Troy wrote: and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Don't forget, the government is elected by the people. A vote to the wrong person is a vote for the wrong way. Douglas Troy wrote: Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. Agreed 100%. Douglas Troy wrote: then towards $4/gal fuel prices AS of day, here gas price is 1.05 $ a liter (roughly 4$ a gallon), in canadian funds. It is very expensive. Douglas Troy wrote: HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! That was not my intention. Here in Canada, most of the gas prices goes to the government as taxes (it is a percentage, not a fixed price). So, when prices go up like that, they have an increase in tax revenue. They could use that supplemental revenue to fuel (no pun intended) the research towards alternative energy sources. Douglas Troy wrote: Again, no, higher gas prices is not going to solve this problem I see high gas prices as an incentive towards the development of alternatives. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson