Gas Prices
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CharlieG wrote: but I know anti-American BS when I see it. I know paranoia when I see it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
pffft... you're implying I'm paranoid? You're not paranoid if they *really* are out to get you (so the joke goes). I'm *objecting* to the factually FALSE statement that the US "invaded" Iraq for the oil. I'm not paranoid, but I did take offense. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
probably to discourage people from buying hummers. A thing we are not accustomed to in North America :rolleyes: -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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pffft... you're implying I'm paranoid? You're not paranoid if they *really* are out to get you (so the joke goes). I'm *objecting* to the factually FALSE statement that the US "invaded" Iraq for the oil. I'm not paranoid, but I did take offense. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
Did I imply that? You must be kidding, it is a known fact that it was because Saddam Hussein was about to destroy America, with the help of his Al-Qaeda friends. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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I'm a businessman, you're a businessman. What does greed have to do with your discussion? Maybe I'm parsing your words, but greed I think should be replaced by reasonable return on investment? C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
CharlieG wrote: greed have to do with your discussion CharlieG wrote: reasonable return on investment Greed == UNreasonably HIGH return on investment
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Michel Prévost wrote: You would gladly pay 3 times as much for gas just so there are "Less cars on the road" and to "encourage R&D of alternate energy". Yes I would, if pushed the governments to invest in the development of other energy sources, so we can free ourselves of the oil companies cartel. Are you in lala land? Cartel? When was the last time you saw government do anything good? Get someone who can turn a profit on it and get the f out of the way. What you DON'T want is a government cartel. Douglas Troy wrote: Do you honestly believe that by our paying more for gas that is somehow going to motivate oil and car production companies to rush off and find alternative solutions? Not the oil companies, but other authorities like government. The problem with the US government, is that they won't do it, because your president would prefer to invade an oil-producing country instead. When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit. But this statement makes you look like an IDIOT. The $$ goes right back into the Iraqi economy to help rebuild the infrastructure. We may not be perfect, but I know anti-American BS when I see it. Douglas Troy wrote: and trust me, someone "at the top" is getting very, very rich over all of this Horseshit. It's all a food chain. About the time you go "get the rich guys! yeah, they deserve it." the government will be coming for you. Another reason to encourage research of alternate energy sources. Then go put a company together and do it. C. Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied.
CharlieG wrote: When I see the US taking the oil from Iraq and sending it to the US, I'll give you credit Wouldn't that be nice if your president would be like you: "When I see Saddam Hussein carrying weapons of mass destruction, I'll believe Iraq has such weapons" -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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That's dollars per gallon, I presume? Have you ever been to the UK? We're currently paying upwards of 90 pence per litre for our petrol That works out at $1.62 / litre which is $6.13 per gallon So stop complaining ;P (Most of the cost of petrol for us goes in Tax, btw) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
I'm curious to know what the average daily commute for people in the UK is. I'm about 20 minutes from my office, but I know many people that drive at least an hour +/- (45miles + city congestion) one way every day.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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I apologize, you are right. Let's keep consuming oil until the last drop. At that point, you will see how useless you car and gas stations are. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
Shog9 wrote: So what is the gas tax used for? A question that is asked often. It's just another income stream for the government. Whilst some of the money does end up being spent on the transport network, most of it is probably used to fill the holes in other budgets. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Unfortunately the dirty little secret of hybrid cars is that they are *not* the most fuel efficent automobiles on the market. A small car with a fuel efficient modern diesel engine gets *far* better mileage than any hybrid on the market today for a hell of a lot less money. Don't expect leadership from American auto makers, everyone seems content to think that they don't need to provide it because they are only supposed to respond to what customers want, not offer new alternatives that are risky.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
Absolutely. I just purchased a 2003 Honda Civic LX. I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
Douglas Troy wrote: and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Don't forget, the government is elected by the people. A vote to the wrong person is a vote for the wrong way. Douglas Troy wrote: Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. Agreed 100%. Douglas Troy wrote: then towards $4/gal fuel prices AS of day, here gas price is 1.05 $ a liter (roughly 4$ a gallon), in canadian funds. It is very expensive. Douglas Troy wrote: HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! That was not my intention. Here in Canada, most of the gas prices goes to the government as taxes (it is a percentage, not a fixed price). So, when prices go up like that, they have an increase in tax revenue. They could use that supplemental revenue to fuel (no pun intended) the research towards alternative energy sources. Douglas Troy wrote: Again, no, higher gas prices is not going to solve this problem I see high gas prices as an incentive towards the development of alternatives. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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:~ So what is the gas tax used for?
If I remeber correctly the bulk of it goes to the "general fund".
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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I apologize, you are right. Let's keep consuming oil until the last drop. At that point, you will see how useless you car and gas stations are. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
actually douglas the way that "us the people" effect change isnt to write letters to congressmen and women its to vote the idiots out of power who think the current policies are a good idea ... "oil is running out ... lets drill in the arctic refuge" ... the people who voted for them now pay the price and unfortunately so do the rest of us ... come the day those nimrods get voted out and we elect someone who actually gives a damn about the environment for more reasons than a balance sheet we might actually get somewhere
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I have been speaking to your remarks, not "Hey! Let's keep using oil", I've not said that, and I firmly believe that's one of our greatest weaknesses as a country; but again, you're remarks were "by paying a higher gas price, this will force us into some kind of "R&D" mode to find alternative fuel solutions" ... you're "basking" in this odd "glory" of higher gas prices thinking "that'll teach them!" ... now maybe something will be done about it, and you're expecting the government to take care of it all ... and that's a terrible approach because all that does is crush the low to middle income families while we have to wait for something to be done; and what the hell does the government know about alternative fuel sources anyway? They're not the ones in the business of fuel and automobiles ... Perhaps a more logical approach: 1). Regulation of gas prices to get this madness under control; for the world's sake not just the United States. This has been needed for a long, long time, but this needs to be something that all nations ask for ... 2). The oil production companies, that are making billions, need to be pressured by the WORLD to come up with an alternative fuel source, since the United States is NOT the only country in the world using oil, nor are we the largest consumer anymore; China took that lead my last check. Although one would think since oil will run out, as you so kindly pointed out, that they would be doing this; they aren't - let's take that up with them, shall we? 3). Finally, The Auto Industry which, by the way, has almost entirely been outsourced to other countries from the United States, need to be pressured by the WORLD to develop an alternative fuel driven car. Again, the United States is not the only country on this planet buying cars and using cars; but everyone sure likes to believe we are. That's a plan - not - HA! I love high gas prices because now, I HOPE, it will force the United States to find another fuel source; that'll teach them! I'm admitting that I do not have the time, because I work a full-time job and have a family, nor do I have the money, because I have a family and have bills (medical, fuel, house payment, fuel efficient car payment) that I must handle - so it's up to you, people with that "disposable income", to fund the R&D that will find that alternative fuel source ... and I'd much rather you "throw" your money towards that end, then towards $4/gal fuel prices. But if you're paying that higher price too, how is that going to help you and us? Again
errr douglas i dont like to rain on ur parade but the us consumes 4 times as much oil as china http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html[^]
"there is no spoon"
biz stuff about me -- modified at 14:54 Wednesday 31st August, 2005 -
That's dollars per gallon, I presume? Have you ever been to the UK? We're currently paying upwards of 90 pence per litre for our petrol That works out at $1.62 / litre which is $6.13 per gallon So stop complaining ;P (Most of the cost of petrol for us goes in Tax, btw) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
benjymous wrote: Have you ever been to the UK? We're currently paying upwards of 90 pence per litre for our petrol That works out at $1.62 / litre which is $6.13 per gallon Here in Finland we have same prices. About $1,43 - $1,83 / litre ($5,41-6,92 / gallon). Average family have one car and maybe half of work/school travelling is done by bus or bicycle.
This is the internet, where the men are men, the women are men and kids are the FBI.
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actually douglas the way that "us the people" effect change isnt to write letters to congressmen and women its to vote the idiots out of power who think the current policies are a good idea ... "oil is running out ... lets drill in the arctic refuge" ... the people who voted for them now pay the price and unfortunately so do the rest of us ... come the day those nimrods get voted out and we elect someone who actually gives a damn about the environment for more reasons than a balance sheet we might actually get somewhere
I totally agree with your statement; and those in power at this moment were NOT the persons I elected to be there! Nor the time before that ... So I am doing what I can, by writting to these individuals can put things into perspective for them ... Being slient on the matter will get us nowhere.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Fold with us|Development Blogging|viksoe.dk's site -
I'm curious to know what the average daily commute for people in the UK is. I'm about 20 minutes from my office, but I know many people that drive at least an hour +/- (45miles + city congestion) one way every day.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
I take the train (about an hour door-to-door), however if I were to take the car it would take about 90 minutes each way due to the time of day. I could make the same journey, say about 8 in the evening, in half the time.
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Absolutely. I just purchased a 2003 Honda Civic LX. I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
Steve McLenithan wrote: I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window. Do you know that at speeds of above 40-45mph the turbulent air-flow and resulting drag caused by open windows costs you more in gas than the air-conditioner would. The AC lowers fuel economy by about a constant 10% at all speeds but turbulent drag from open windows at 55mph decreases fuel economy by 20% or more... http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2004-hill.pdf[^] Steve T -- modified at 15:17 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
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Steve McLenithan wrote: I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window. Do you know that at speeds of above 40-45mph the turbulent air-flow and resulting drag caused by open windows costs you more in gas than the air-conditioner would. The AC lowers fuel economy by about a constant 10% at all speeds but turbulent drag from open windows at 55mph decreases fuel economy by 20% or more... http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2004-hill.pdf[^] Steve T -- modified at 15:17 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
Damnit. Ok I'll use AC then :P
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
-- modified at 16:03 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
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errr douglas i dont like to rain on ur parade but the us consumes 4 times as much oil as china http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html[^]
"there is no spoon"
biz stuff about me -- modified at 14:54 Wednesday 31st August, 2005Thank you for correcting me on that point; I had just read a story contrary to this information you just provided (I am going to have to locate that now, because I want to see where their information was pulled from). However I stand by my comments that this isn't a United States only problem - this is a world problem - and one that must be addressed by all of us. My contention is that paying a higher price for gas, isn't going to keep people from driving, nor is it going to force the R&D into alternative fuel sources. Yes - it might get more people to write someone, as I have done, but the more likely result will be people cutting back on entertainment stuffs. People still have to drive to work, to the store for food ... oh yes, there will be some cut back and people may not drive to the park or the movies, but what is that going to do? Not enough. If we're all dumping our money into fuel costs, there will be none left to fund the R&D that everyone wants, to find the real solutions; and it's not going to happen overnight. Good Example: my wife and I just discussed having to drop all the contributions we make to organizations like the Save the Children Foundation because the added expense of gas now prevent us from making those donations. And how, pray tell, is that going to help? Yes - I believe the auto industry should have provided these solutions decades ago when we had a fuel shortage before. It disgusts me that they didn't and haven't. Yes - I would love to see the government step up and put the pressure on the industry to resolve these issues; but our government can barely run itself, let alone figure out how to resolve this issue. But NO - Paying higher gas prices is only going to crush the low and middle income families and when the U.S. economy falters the world economy will too; again, how will this help? They say that necessity is the mother of invention. This is true. But one cannot invent if one does not have the money to do so. Fine. I'll pay the higher gas price; I don't have a choice. Even if they release an alternative fuel and a car that runs on it tomorrow, I will not be able to afford to buy it, because I've spent all my wood-be savings on that higher gas price. And look at Michel's fuel costs (what did he say? $6/gal) - so where are all the 100 mile-to-the-gallon cars in Canada? Why haven't THEY come up with a solution to this? I mean, if a higher gas price is what's going to drive that R&D ... why hasn't Canada already done it??? I understand the