Gas Prices
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Yes, I know ... I was just stating I wish I could make that same choice. Driving an hour (sometimes two) just to get to work is a harsh reality.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Fold with us|Development Blogging|viksoe.dk's site -
l a u r e n wrote: 1. there are no 100mpg cars because the car corporations are global and dont give a crap about fuel efficiency Car corporations don't give a crap about producing vehicles that have no market. Fuel efficient vehicles have been around for a while, but nobody buys them, so there is never an incentive to the car manufactures to make a ton of them and get an economy of scale. l a u r e n wrote: 2. the pain being felt by the low and middle income people will make them vote for someone else next time they get a chance ... it seems we are all pavlovs dogs after all Why does everyone in this thread believe that electing the "right" people or letter writing campaigns will effect change? Vote with your money. Money talks. As gas prices surge several things will happen: 1) More people will abandon SUVs for more fuel efficient cars 2) The social stigma of having a small fuel efficient cars will decrease 3) As demand rises, car companies will produce more vehicles to compete against each other and the prices for them will drop. I guarantee all of the major manufacturers have their engineers working overtime on this, since consumers are starting to realize that current prices aren't a temporary spike, but the natural position of the price of oil as demand bashes up against a limited supply. The greed of the car companies as they attempt to fill this market will solve the energy crisis, as long as consumers buy the highly efficient cars. If people hold their breath, and reallocate their spending and keep rewarding the car companies making big, heavy SUVs, then the efficient cars will not appear. Either way, it's economic democracy at its finest. Sean
1. "electing the right people" as u put it means the government makes policies that encourage sensible things ... unlike gw dipsh*t who encourages corporate greed and lack of responsibility 2. those "right people" would give tax breaks (for example) to people who drove efficient cars so more people would buy 3. the abandonment of suv's will be for as long as gas prices stay high ... as soon as they came down people would go back to their old ways unless those "right people" made it painful to do so so thats why it matters who we elect
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1. "electing the right people" as u put it means the government makes policies that encourage sensible things ... unlike gw dipsh*t who encourages corporate greed and lack of responsibility 2. those "right people" would give tax breaks (for example) to people who drove efficient cars so more people would buy 3. the abandonment of suv's will be for as long as gas prices stay high ... as soon as they came down people would go back to their old ways unless those "right people" made it painful to do so so thats why it matters who we elect
l a u r e n wrote: 2. those "right people" would give tax breaks (for example) to people who drove efficient cars so more people would buy Right, but you're paying for those tax breaks. Tax break money doesn't just show up, you pay for it with your income tax. At least if you buy a fuel efficient car (or choose not to and buy an SUV) you're making a decision about how to spend your money, and rewarding the behaviour of corporations directly. l a u r e n wrote: 3. the abandonment of suv's will be for as long as gas prices stay high ... as soon as they came down people would go back to their old ways unless those "right people" made it painful to do so You're absolutely right. The funny thing (from my point of view) is that there is nothing wrong with this. I resent your belief that you know how to spend my money better than I do. Don't presume to sit in a position of moral superiority to people who choose to spend their money on gas rather than something else you would rather have them spend it on. Their choice. I don't see that removing choice from people's lives with "pain" would result in a better world. More totalitarian? Yes. Better? Probably not. Sean
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l a u r e n wrote: 1. there are no 100mpg cars because the car corporations are global and dont give a crap about fuel efficiency Car corporations don't give a crap about producing vehicles that have no market. Fuel efficient vehicles have been around for a while, but nobody buys them, so there is never an incentive to the car manufactures to make a ton of them and get an economy of scale. l a u r e n wrote: 2. the pain being felt by the low and middle income people will make them vote for someone else next time they get a chance ... it seems we are all pavlovs dogs after all Why does everyone in this thread believe that electing the "right" people or letter writing campaigns will effect change? Vote with your money. Money talks. As gas prices surge several things will happen: 1) More people will abandon SUVs for more fuel efficient cars 2) The social stigma of having a small fuel efficient cars will decrease 3) As demand rises, car companies will produce more vehicles to compete against each other and the prices for them will drop. I guarantee all of the major manufacturers have their engineers working overtime on this, since consumers are starting to realize that current prices aren't a temporary spike, but the natural position of the price of oil as demand bashes up against a limited supply. The greed of the car companies as they attempt to fill this market will solve the energy crisis, as long as consumers buy the highly efficient cars. If people hold their breath, and reallocate their spending and keep rewarding the car companies making big, heavy SUVs, then the efficient cars will not appear. Either way, it's economic democracy at its finest. Sean
Sean Michael Murphy wrote: Vote with your money. Money talks. Because by the time I'm done paying for gas at 4/gal. I have no money that "can talk"; so writting letters is my only option ... Sean Michael Murphy wrote: I guarantee all of the major manufacturers have their engineers working overtime on this, I hope you're right, but let's face it, the U.S. has been in a gas crisis before and that didn't yield many fuel efficient cars; not sure what makes you believe that will happen this time. In the mean time, I was just told by my wife that gas is now $3.25/gal, up from $2.46 just this past Saturday and we have a 10 day supply left in the city, because all our oil came from New Orleans, that has now been wiped off the face of the planet ... SO ... anyone care to make donations to me to help me pay for gas for my fuel efficient car??? (gets 26 mpg with no A/C running - which is how I drive) I hear money talks ...
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Fold with us|Development Blogging|viksoe.dk's site -
l a u r e n wrote: 2. those "right people" would give tax breaks (for example) to people who drove efficient cars so more people would buy Right, but you're paying for those tax breaks. Tax break money doesn't just show up, you pay for it with your income tax. At least if you buy a fuel efficient car (or choose not to and buy an SUV) you're making a decision about how to spend your money, and rewarding the behaviour of corporations directly. l a u r e n wrote: 3. the abandonment of suv's will be for as long as gas prices stay high ... as soon as they came down people would go back to their old ways unless those "right people" made it painful to do so You're absolutely right. The funny thing (from my point of view) is that there is nothing wrong with this. I resent your belief that you know how to spend my money better than I do. Don't presume to sit in a position of moral superiority to people who choose to spend their money on gas rather than something else you would rather have them spend it on. Their choice. I don't see that removing choice from people's lives with "pain" would result in a better world. More totalitarian? Yes. Better? Probably not. Sean
so surely if i choose to spend my money on cigarettes and smoke them where i please then thats ok too being as how its my choice no? governments take our money and spend it how they please all the time ... u have no say as to what happens to ur taxes ... once they are paid to the government they cease to be ur money and they are the monies of the population as a whole ... so spending some of them (for example) on tax breaks for people who buy cars that respect the environment seems like a good idea to me
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If you multiply the mileage with the "cleanliness factor", which is better? Good music: In my rosary[^]
Diesel, no question. Modern diesel engines are clean and very efficient, plus they can be run on alternatives to diesel like bio-diesel made from used cooking oil etc. Hybrids are a major pollutant when you factor in the manufacturing of the batteries and ultimate disposal needs for the batteries.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
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Steve McLenithan wrote: I get anywhere from 38 to 44 MPG depending on if I run the AC or not. Usually don't though, I prefer the window. Do you know that at speeds of above 40-45mph the turbulent air-flow and resulting drag caused by open windows costs you more in gas than the air-conditioner would. The AC lowers fuel economy by about a constant 10% at all speeds but turbulent drag from open windows at 55mph decreases fuel economy by 20% or more... http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2004-hill.pdf[^] Steve T -- modified at 15:17 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
Wow, learn something new every day ! especially at CP. I had thought that windows down would have given better fuel economy at low speeds but the AC at higher speeds. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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l a u r e n wrote: now the chikens come home to roost Except some see them as ducks instead of chickens and they were all put there by someone else -- they don't see anything for what it is. While I was filling up yesterday, I was listening to a guy in an SUV complain to me about the cost of filling his vehicle and what horrible gas mileage he was getting, and extremely angry at me for having a smaller vehicle. I left as he cussed me out. A short time later on the highway, he passed me at 20 miles over the speed limit, he was doing about 95 in a 75 zone. Absolutely no idea why he is having problems, it's just all someone else's fault. He flipped me off as he passed. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Yeepee!! Go up, go up!! I'm super happy with this petrol price increase. In fact I have some kind of weird and very painfull sickness, akin to an allergy to car pollution. I finally understdood 1 year ago and I'm still adjusting/preparing for a new life in the country. Anyway, I hope this would push faster in the direction of alternative to petrol. Today you could already buy a Toyota prius (which has a lower maintenance BTW), apparently japanese are coming with a few other innovation in the next few years as well. And shame on general motors which has a functional fully electric car of which all users were very happy of, and removed it from its product line!
Don't forget where a majority of the electricity for electric cars comes from; coal power plants. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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I'm curious to know what the average daily commute for people in the UK is. I'm about 20 minutes from my office, but I know many people that drive at least an hour +/- (45miles + city congestion) one way every day.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
I drive for about 45 minutes to/from the office each day (I chose to live in a small town outside the city as its a far nicer environment) Of course my car does >40 miles to the gallon, so it probably all evens out in the end -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
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so surely if i choose to spend my money on cigarettes and smoke them where i please then thats ok too being as how its my choice no? governments take our money and spend it how they please all the time ... u have no say as to what happens to ur taxes ... once they are paid to the government they cease to be ur money and they are the monies of the population as a whole ... so spending some of them (for example) on tax breaks for people who buy cars that respect the environment seems like a good idea to me
l a u r e n wrote: so surely if i choose to spend my money on cigarettes and smoke them where i please then thats ok too being as how its my choice no? Hmmm, I was all ready to reply that this is obviously a bad analogy; that smoking anywhere you please is a public health issue and is not simply a personal choice (since your dumb choice affects not just you, but also the health of people around you), but then I realized that you could frame the fuel economy issue as a public health issue too. Gas guzzlers pollute more, causing more health issues for everyone, etc. I guess you're right. We should just give all of our money to the government, and let a small council of people who have the good ideas decide how to spend it. We could call the council "The Politburo". Catchy. Poor Ronnie is weeping in his grave. Sean
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Don't forget where a majority of the electricity for electric cars comes from; coal power plants. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
As far I'm concern I don't care for the following reasons: 1. I'm in pain because of car exhaust polluted air around me, power plant 50km away don't harm me! 2. furthermore energy production by petrol/car based power plant is more efficient that those in car for various reason as well as it is easier to control pollution output.