How do MS expect to get .NET runtimes on peoples PC's?
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Okay so how are they going to do it. Say you have an app that you want to distribute on the web. You download it say 1 meg, and then find you have to download the .NET runtimes. It would be fine to include these ona CD - loads of space, but it would be nice to think people would not have to do that. How about sneaking it in the next service pack? e.g. Win2K SP3? for NT4 SP7? Or how about Windows Update? Giles
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Okay so how are they going to do it. Say you have an app that you want to distribute on the web. You download it say 1 meg, and then find you have to download the .NET runtimes. It would be fine to include these ona CD - loads of space, but it would be nice to think people would not have to do that. How about sneaking it in the next service pack? e.g. Win2K SP3? for NT4 SP7? Or how about Windows Update? Giles
All of the above :-P Plus IE 6.1, Office 2000 SP 2 (or is it 3?), Office XP SP 2, DX 9, maybe a mass CD mailing campaign ala AOL. With MS betting so much on .NET I'm expecting it to be pushed as if it were a necessary upgrade for everyone to have. James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki "My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think." - Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull 1972
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All of the above :-P Plus IE 6.1, Office 2000 SP 2 (or is it 3?), Office XP SP 2, DX 9, maybe a mass CD mailing campaign ala AOL. With MS betting so much on .NET I'm expecting it to be pushed as if it were a necessary upgrade for everyone to have. James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki "My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think." - Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull 1972
From a different perspective, I believe that this can even be achieved by "one cool product" which is developed based on dot net, something like "winzip" . Cheers Kannan
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From a different perspective, I believe that this can even be achieved by "one cool product" which is developed based on dot net, something like "winzip" . Cheers Kannan
True but its also very difficult to predict when another program like winzip will come along; i think the closest thing since then has been winamp; and mIRC (though I think mIRC came before winzip). If MS' goal is to get widespread adoption ASAP they can't wait for that killer app to come along, unless they can talk the folks over at winzip and nullsoft into doing .NET :) If MS packages it with something people are going to want, such as a software upgrade, then they stand the best chance of getting the runtime out there. James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki "My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think." - Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull 1972
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Okay so how are they going to do it. Say you have an app that you want to distribute on the web. You download it say 1 meg, and then find you have to download the .NET runtimes. It would be fine to include these ona CD - loads of space, but it would be nice to think people would not have to do that. How about sneaking it in the next service pack? e.g. Win2K SP3? for NT4 SP7? Or how about Windows Update? Giles
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So in other words, developers will have "if you don't have the .NET runtimes, you'll to download them before running our app" on their download pages. I suppose it's a bit like the old vb runtime dll's, you'll have a choice of having them packaged with the product or download them seperately. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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So in other words, developers will have "if you don't have the .NET runtimes, you'll to download them before running our app" on their download pages. I suppose it's a bit like the old vb runtime dll's, you'll have a choice of having them packaged with the product or download them seperately. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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Some will, but most will just include the Net merge module in their install system and nobody will even know. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
They will, if they are downloading a simple calulator app, or say an alternative to Notepad, an the install is over 23MB.:laugh: Can you imagine the looks on their face. I favour the service pack route, or linking on the ditribution web site to the MS download. Giles
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They will, if they are downloading a simple calulator app, or say an alternative to Notepad, an the install is over 23MB.:laugh: Can you imagine the looks on their face. I favour the service pack route, or linking on the ditribution web site to the MS download. Giles
Giles wrote: They will, if they are downloading a simple calulator app, or say an alternative to Notepad, an the install is over 23MB. Heh, that's what I was thinking. How big are the required runtime files (in full) anyway, does anyone know the exact size? Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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Giles wrote: They will, if they are downloading a simple calulator app, or say an alternative to Notepad, an the install is over 23MB. Heh, that's what I was thinking. How big are the required runtime files (in full) anyway, does anyone know the exact size? Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
Simon Walton wrote: Heh, that's what I was thinking. How big are the required runtime files (in full) anyway, does anyone know the exact size? 21,827,584 Bytes, to be exact // Fazlul
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Simon Walton wrote: Heh, that's what I was thinking. How big are the required runtime files (in full) anyway, does anyone know the exact size? 21,827,584 Bytes, to be exact // Fazlul
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21MB? And there's me comparing it to the vb runtimes. I guess service packs are the only way forward. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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From a different perspective, I believe that this can even be achieved by "one cool product" which is developed based on dot net, something like "winzip" . Cheers Kannan
Kannan Kalyanaraman wrote: From a different perspective, I believe that this can even be achieved by "one cool product" which is developed based on dot net, something like "winzip" Huh? unless MS bribes WinZip maker heavily, why would they rewrite it on .NET? This will only put millions of WinZip users in a very awkward position by forcing them to download some 21 MB redistributable (instead of current < 1.4 MB). // Fazlul
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21MB? And there's me comparing it to the vb runtimes. I guess service packs are the only way forward. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
Back when MSI first came out, people were bitching about the 1MB download. Now that isn't a big deal. Our EXE download has both the NT4 and 9x MSI files for over 3MB of extra downloads. Nobody has said anything. But, I will admit that 21MB is HUGE. But in 2 years, all the new OSes will be including it already installed. Also, applications distributed via CD won't even think twice about adding 21MB. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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Back when MSI first came out, people were bitching about the 1MB download. Now that isn't a big deal. Our EXE download has both the NT4 and 9x MSI files for over 3MB of extra downloads. Nobody has said anything. But, I will admit that 21MB is HUGE. But in 2 years, all the new OSes will be including it already installed. Also, applications distributed via CD won't even think twice about adding 21MB. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
Oh... If you ask me is 21MB to big for my downloads... Hell YES. No way would I distribute a NET program over the net at this time. However, in the long run, I don't see it being a problem. After all, my application requires IE4+ be installed for HTML help. 4 years ago, it would have been a problem. But these days it isn't a concern. That is unless the government decides it is in the people best interest to remove IE from Windows. (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH) Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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Okay so how are they going to do it. Say you have an app that you want to distribute on the web. You download it say 1 meg, and then find you have to download the .NET runtimes. It would be fine to include these ona CD - loads of space, but it would be nice to think people would not have to do that. How about sneaking it in the next service pack? e.g. Win2K SP3? for NT4 SP7? Or how about Windows Update? Giles
Giles, Having the runtime installed everywhere is so important for Microsoft that they'll likely do everything in their power to make it happen: AOL-style coasterware, competitions and rewards, the next versions of *every* product they have (Windows, Office, Games, etc.) will include the runtime, and they will likely cut deals with any company that has software widely distributed on CD (Intuit, Corel, etc.,). Further, any company that includes VBA/VSA will likely be including the runtime in their next versions (Corel, Autodesk, etc.) The question of whether they make it a requirement for service packs or security patches is an interesting one. You can bet on any relatively big patches or upgrades will have it (IE v.next, W2K sp3, XP sp1 etc.), the security pathes, IM and other smaller updates probably won't. I think the focus will be on large corporations and server hosted applications and not really the desktops of joe-average home or SOHO users. If that's the case, it will be far easier to reach saturation in those spaces and allow the SOHO/Home users to get it with their next PC upgrade, or with a specific application that requires .Net. David http://www.dundas.com
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Giles, Having the runtime installed everywhere is so important for Microsoft that they'll likely do everything in their power to make it happen: AOL-style coasterware, competitions and rewards, the next versions of *every* product they have (Windows, Office, Games, etc.) will include the runtime, and they will likely cut deals with any company that has software widely distributed on CD (Intuit, Corel, etc.,). Further, any company that includes VBA/VSA will likely be including the runtime in their next versions (Corel, Autodesk, etc.) The question of whether they make it a requirement for service packs or security patches is an interesting one. You can bet on any relatively big patches or upgrades will have it (IE v.next, W2K sp3, XP sp1 etc.), the security pathes, IM and other smaller updates probably won't. I think the focus will be on large corporations and server hosted applications and not really the desktops of joe-average home or SOHO users. If that's the case, it will be far easier to reach saturation in those spaces and allow the SOHO/Home users to get it with their next PC upgrade, or with a specific application that requires .Net. David http://www.dundas.com
Do you suppose that IE7 might need the runtime?
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Kannan Kalyanaraman wrote: From a different perspective, I believe that this can even be achieved by "one cool product" which is developed based on dot net, something like "winzip" Huh? unless MS bribes WinZip maker heavily, why would they rewrite it on .NET? This will only put millions of WinZip users in a very awkward position by forcing them to download some 21 MB redistributable (instead of current < 1.4 MB). // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
Does anyone even use WinZip anymore? We have the compressed folders file type on XP, 2K, and Me. That seems to work a lot better, with shell integration and everything. Now that I have XP, is there ANY reason for the use of WinZip? There must be, otherwise, WinZip would be out of customers. But I can't find it! -Domenic Denicola- Geek^n http://madhamster.50megs.com "Any technology that is indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced..."
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Does anyone even use WinZip anymore? We have the compressed folders file type on XP, 2K, and Me. That seems to work a lot better, with shell integration and everything. Now that I have XP, is there ANY reason for the use of WinZip? There must be, otherwise, WinZip would be out of customers. But I can't find it! -Domenic Denicola- Geek^n http://madhamster.50megs.com "Any technology that is indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced..."
Transmitting files from one machine to another. Some e-mail clients, for example, wont accept any other attachment formats. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk Sonork ID: 100.9977 Dave Contents of my clipboard: Barclays Visa Connect - 4936-3503-2 -- sh*t, I'd better edit the rest out...
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Okay so how are they going to do it. Say you have an app that you want to distribute on the web. You download it say 1 meg, and then find you have to download the .NET runtimes. It would be fine to include these ona CD - loads of space, but it would be nice to think people would not have to do that. How about sneaking it in the next service pack? e.g. Win2K SP3? for NT4 SP7? Or how about Windows Update? Giles
I think .NET's first objective it to compete with Java on the server side. There's no need to distribute .NET to millions of people if it's only used server side. As for client side it's just like VB. You have to download and install a 6mb VB runtime DLL to run a VB app. Since that's the case you will find a lot of people will NOT use VB and will NOT use C# for small/efficient client side apps. That will still be the domain of C++ apps. I don't expect to use .NET for small client side apps for a long time to come.
Todd Smith
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Do you suppose that IE7 might need the runtime?
They would cut away a lot of clients with slower machines. I doubt. -- See me: www.magerquark.de