C# vs C++ arguments don't hold for C# vs VB.NET
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Actually the first rule of Fight Club is that you DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB. We just both broke the rule :omg: Cheers, Tom Archer Author, Inside C#
And the second rule of Fight Club is you DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB. Oh sh*t, I did it as well. :omg: Are they gonna come for our balls or is that just if we ask questions about 'PROJECT MAYHEM' ?
Bruce Duncan - Digital Delirium
honk() if $you->love(PERL);
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This is a continuation of a chat I had with Paul Watson today earlier on Sonork. I was wondering aloud why people who use VB now would want to switch to C#. I am aware that MC++ allows you to mix managed and unmanaged code and allows you the privilege of code optimizations before IL-ing which are not available in the other .NET compilers. Thus there is always a good reason for using MC++ instead of C#. But the same argument won’t hold for C# over VB.NET. Any C# program can be converted line by line [and line for line] into VB.NET or even Fortran.NET. Cause they both totally use the .NET framework classes. So can someone give me 3 good reasons [playing safe here ;-)] why any VB 6 programmer should try C# instead of VB.NET? A Console.WriteLine in any .NET language would smell as sweet and probably taste as good. In fact I find something else very puzzling. C++ programmers are making a big fuss over C#. Also Java programmers. Neither of these people are affected at all. Java programmers can use J# and C++ coders can use MC++. But think of the poor VB 6 programmers. VB.NET is so totally different for them from VB 6 and yet they suffer in silence. We don;t hear any complaints or any fuss made. I find it amazing that I havent found VB 6 coders compaining abt the HUGE jump they need to make to adjust to VB.NET even as C++ coders are making a big deal over nothing. Regards Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
I totally agree. You know what it means...that many mono lingual VB programmers will be trapped, and that it will be the likes of us who get their jobs in the future. I've seen some shoddy VB code in my time. I like VB, but I also write good vb that handles errors well, rather than just dying with VB Runtime Error : 1004 Object Not Found or what ever it is for 1004. I've seen it a million times.:laugh: Giles
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Now can someone kindly tell me what this movie is all about an dwhy it puzzles people that I havent seen it? Is Nish, don't panic I don't believe I ahve seen it also. No panic needed. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
28 th Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr# Segmentation violation -- Core dumped
Colin Davies wrote: Nish, don't panic I don't believe I ahve seen it also. No panic needed. OK. I've re-started my breathing. Thanks :-) Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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And the second rule of Fight Club is you DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB. Oh sh*t, I did it as well. :omg: Are they gonna come for our balls or is that just if we ask questions about 'PROJECT MAYHEM' ?
Bruce Duncan - Digital Delirium
honk() if $you->love(PERL);
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Chris Maunder wrote: You've never seen the movie Fight Club? Hmmm. I fail to see why this should be a surprise to you. Jon Sagara seemed quite shocked by this as well. Yes I am guilty regarding that. I have not watched that movie yet :-) I even went to that link Jon posted but it gave me a page not found error when I clicked on a link that said quarter page quick time. I didnt dare to click the full page quick time link. Now can someone kindly tell me what this movie is all about an dwhy it puzzles people that I havent seen it? Is it about a C++ programmer who is tormented by his step-mother who forces him to use VB? If so, I better skip it. I am a sensitive guy ;-) Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Now can someone kindly tell me what this movie is all about an dwhy it puzzles people that I havent seen it? Is Nish, don't panic I don't believe I ahve seen it also. No panic needed. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
28 th Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr# Segmentation violation -- Core dumped
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I totally agree. You know what it means...that many mono lingual VB programmers will be trapped, and that it will be the likes of us who get their jobs in the future. I've seen some shoddy VB code in my time. I like VB, but I also write good vb that handles errors well, rather than just dying with VB Runtime Error : 1004 Object Not Found or what ever it is for 1004. I've seen it a million times.:laugh: Giles
Giles wrote: I like VB, but I also write good vb that handles errors well, rather than just dying with VB Runtime Error : 1004 Object Not Found or what ever it is for 1004. Hmmm. Jus put this on top of each file.
on error resume next
Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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Not all working developers chose the tools they use. Sometimes you have to think of things from the employers perspective. Is a C++ developer most costly/more difficult to replace than a VB developer? I think most would say yes. My company won't let me use C++ because if I left no one else on the team has the skillset to take over or maintain my code. But if your company is moving to .NET, as VB developers you may as well just switch to C#. The jump from VB to VB.NET is roughly the same as the jump from VB to C#. C# has the ability to write unsafe code, overload operators, and the syntax for writing OO code seems cleaner in C# than VB. And if want block comments in classic ASP you can use JScript. Andy Gaskell, MCSD
C# has the ability to write unsafe code... If by "unsafe" you mean what MS calls "unmanaged", then I thought C++ was the only language in the band with such capabilities. Anyone enlighten me? Joaquín M López Muñoz Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
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C# has the ability to write unsafe code... If by "unsafe" you mean what MS calls "unmanaged", then I thought C++ was the only language in the band with such capabilities. Anyone enlighten me? Joaquín M López Muñoz Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
Joaquín M López Muñoz wrote: If by "unsafe" you mean what MS calls "unmanaged", then I thought C++ was the only language in the band with such capabilities. Anyone enlighten me? unsafe and unmanaged are different stuff. in unsafe code programmers are allowed to de-reference ref addresses. in unmanaged code they can do anything just as if the clr was a dummy Nish p.s. MY shift key is not working proper :-( Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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Hehe, I think they could get more than a couple of bars of soap out of me. :laugh: Good scene that, at the liposuction clinic X|
Bruce Duncan - Digital Delirium
honk() if $you->love(PERL);
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I see the light!! I see the light!! Thanks for the terminology explanation. Curious thing that this capability is being called "unsafe". In my days it was simply named "powerful" :) Joaquín M López Muñoz Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
Joaquín M López Muñoz wrote: I see the light!! I see the light!! Joaquín M López Muñoz wrote: In my days it was simply named "powerful" :) :) :) :) :) :) Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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Joaquín M López Muñoz wrote: If by "unsafe" you mean what MS calls "unmanaged", then I thought C++ was the only language in the band with such capabilities. Anyone enlighten me? unsafe and unmanaged are different stuff. in unsafe code programmers are allowed to de-reference ref addresses. in unmanaged code they can do anything just as if the clr was a dummy Nish p.s. MY shift key is not working proper :-( Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
I see the light!! I see the light!! Thanks for the terminology explanation. Curious thing that this capability is being called "unsafe". In my days it was simply named "powerful" :) Joaquín M López Muñoz Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
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Jon Sagara wrote: Haven't you ever seen the movie Fight Club? No, I haven't. I am not exactly a movie buff. Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: No, I haven't. I am not exactly a movie buff. That's because you spend all your time here!!! :) Brigg Thorp Software Engineer Timex Corporation
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Hehe, I think they could get more than a couple of bars of soap out of me. :laugh: Good scene that, at the liposuction clinic X|
Bruce Duncan - Digital Delirium
honk() if $you->love(PERL);
Why can't we recycle the byproducts of liposuction? Save the Whales!
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This is a continuation of a chat I had with Paul Watson today earlier on Sonork. I was wondering aloud why people who use VB now would want to switch to C#. I am aware that MC++ allows you to mix managed and unmanaged code and allows you the privilege of code optimizations before IL-ing which are not available in the other .NET compilers. Thus there is always a good reason for using MC++ instead of C#. But the same argument won’t hold for C# over VB.NET. Any C# program can be converted line by line [and line for line] into VB.NET or even Fortran.NET. Cause they both totally use the .NET framework classes. So can someone give me 3 good reasons [playing safe here ;-)] why any VB 6 programmer should try C# instead of VB.NET? A Console.WriteLine in any .NET language would smell as sweet and probably taste as good. In fact I find something else very puzzling. C++ programmers are making a big fuss over C#. Also Java programmers. Neither of these people are affected at all. Java programmers can use J# and C++ coders can use MC++. But think of the poor VB 6 programmers. VB.NET is so totally different for them from VB 6 and yet they suffer in silence. We don;t hear any complaints or any fuss made. I find it amazing that I havent found VB 6 coders compaining abt the HUGE jump they need to make to adjust to VB.NET even as C++ coders are making a big deal over nothing. Regards Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
The first part of your post makes no sense. You are certain you can convert COBOL.Net or Fortran.Net to C# by running a wizard or something? Have you tried to do that already? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: So can someone give me 3 good reasons [playing safe here ] why any VB 6 programmer should try C# instead of VB.NET? I don't get it. Are you implying that they should or shouldn't? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: VB.NET is so totally different for them from VB 6 and yet they suffer in silence. We don;t hear any complaints or any fuss made. VB.Net is a new language, period. Most people who write or manage VB applications will be smart enough to recognize this and make a decision about whether or not to jump. One thing is certain - there's going to be very little porting as there was VB4 to VB5 and VB6. That capability has pretty much been killed off by Microsoft. Whether that is good or bad remains to be seen. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I find it amazing that I havent found VB 6 coders compaining abt the HUGE jump they need to make to adjust to VB.NET even as C++ coders are making a big deal over nothing. I think someone already posted a link to KEP's rants page. Over the last year or so we (the VB MVPs) have been "roughing it out" with the MS developer/management team for VB.Net to minimize the impact changes will have on existing code. One example is the Caption property in controls, which was removed in the PDC bits that were first released. We got that back by Beta 2. And there are tons of examples like that one. We won a few battles but eventually lost the war (to be fair I wasn't as involved in that process, at least not publicly. I arguably have a different take on .NET than most VB developers). In any case, like I said VB.Net is not VB7 by any stretch of the imagination. Companies will have to decide if they want to make the jump or not, and in many cases they'll see that going to C# is about as painful in any case and do that instead. If you're sitting in your house coding for fun this is not a big issue, but when you have millions of dollars invested in existing software infrastructure things get more complicated. ___________ Klaus [www.vbbox.com]
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Chris Losinger wrote: you're listening in the wrong place. VB programmers are very upset about the changes That is perhaps true. I don't visit VB forums at all. The only VB people I know are Paul, Tweety and Roger W. Roger and Tweety seem totally unaware that C# exists and Paul sounds quite enthusiastic about it. Chris Losinger wrote: there is no Fight Club You mean VB.NET will fight with VB 6 and C++ will fight MC++. But since C# is a first-timer, there won't be fights? If so I disagree. Everyone from VB to C++ coders [even those abominable Java guys] have a problem with C# or seem to have a problem at any case. Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Roger W. VB People? I'm indifferent - equally mediocre in lots of languages - I have no preference at all which language I write bugs in. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Roger and Tweety seem totally unaware that C# exists Hmmm... I see on my bookshelf "C# Essentials" by Albahari, Drayton, and Merrill, which I purchased out of the $2 bin last week and read. Well worth the investment; I am whelmed. I haven't figured out any way to ever get the compiler, so why care about the language? It will take another year to pay off VS6, which I've had only a few months,so VS.NET isn't on the horizon, and MSDN Pro is completely out of reach.
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Chris Maunder wrote: You've never seen the movie Fight Club? Hmmm. I fail to see why this should be a surprise to you. Jon Sagara seemed quite shocked by this as well. Yes I am guilty regarding that. I have not watched that movie yet :-) I even went to that link Jon posted but it gave me a page not found error when I clicked on a link that said quarter page quick time. I didnt dare to click the full page quick time link. Now can someone kindly tell me what this movie is all about an dwhy it puzzles people that I havent seen it? Is it about a C++ programmer who is tormented by his step-mother who forces him to use VB? If so, I better skip it. I am a sensitive guy ;-) Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Please don't be shocked by this, but I haven't seen it either. Nor do I plan to. I liked Shrek.
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Not all working developers chose the tools they use. Sometimes you have to think of things from the employers perspective. Is a C++ developer most costly/more difficult to replace than a VB developer? I think most would say yes. My company won't let me use C++ because if I left no one else on the team has the skillset to take over or maintain my code. But if your company is moving to .NET, as VB developers you may as well just switch to C#. The jump from VB to VB.NET is roughly the same as the jump from VB to C#. C# has the ability to write unsafe code, overload operators, and the syntax for writing OO code seems cleaner in C# than VB. And if want block comments in classic ASP you can use JScript. Andy Gaskell, MCSD
AndyG wrote: C# has the ability to write unsafe code Now there's a handy feature!
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Now can someone kindly tell me what this movie is all about an dwhy it puzzles people that I havent seen it? Is Nish, don't panic I don't believe I ahve seen it also. No panic needed. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
28 th Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr# Segmentation violation -- Core dumped
then why are you still on-line??? go see it, immediately! (it's good) -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
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Hehe, I think they could get more than a couple of bars of soap out of me. :laugh: Good scene that, at the liposuction clinic X|
Bruce Duncan - Digital Delirium
honk() if $you->love(PERL);
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then why are you still on-line??? go see it, immediately! (it's good) -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
Chris Losinger wrote: then why are you still on-line??? go see it, immediately! (it's good) Ok Ok, I'll have a look for it at my Local video shop ASAP, Happy now ! It's morning here and I should be working. :-) Satisfied now ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
Most people should stick to calculators, Isaac Sasson 28 th Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr# Segmentation violation -- Core dumped