What is it with American actors??
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Paul Watson wrote: I don't think that American actors are any worse than other actors. It is just that we notice the poor accents more when they try and pull them off. I am not an expert here, but when has that stopped me having a say. I don't think it really has anything to do with quality of actors and more to do with what Stan was saying about the "Standard American Accent" being flat etc. I remember middle of last year while on a long late night drive listening to the radio. They had an American on who was over here coaching the American Accent to actors (it was his full time job). He said that American TV Presenters and Actors actually had to learn the "Standard American Accent" before being allowed out in the acting world. He was then asked to do an Australian accent which he failed miserably. He then said that he can teach the "Standard American Accent" to anyone but could teach anyone the Australian accent and hadn't heard anyone do one that wasn't born here. I heard a piss poor attempt at an Australian accent on Law and Order tonight and thought that the South African accent's is Leathal Weapon 3 (?) were acceptable. Michael Martin Australia mmartin@netspace.net.au "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Michael Martin wrote: and thought that the South African accent's is Leathal Weapon 3 (?) were acceptable. hehe, exactly my point. Once again I thought it was a shocking attempt at a South African accent (not sure what Lethal Weapon it was, but it was bad nonetheless.) Non South Africans think it is a good attempt at the accent, South Africans however cringe. Just as if I tried to do an American accent, other South Africans would think it is good, but Americans would start to bleed from the ears. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Actually, I never said it was a fault. I just thought it strange that I have yet to see an American pull it off succesfully. All my favorite actors/actresses are American in any case Regards Senkwe Just another wannabe code junky
Senkwe Chanda wrote: All my favorite actors/actresses are American in any case Don't worry, I will pay for your counselling personally. We wil get through this problem together Senkwe... ;P British actors are just, well, they are just a damned sight better than their American counterparts. You can actually believe they are people in a vivid story, not an actor pretending to be a person in a vivid story. Naturally that is a generalisation as there are some very good American actors, just on average Brit actors are far better. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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All actors have trouble pulling off other accents. You should hear actors trying to pull off the southern USA accent. It is so over done it stinks. FYI: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Well, both southern accents, (i.e. the Appalachian "hillbilly" accent and the accent of the tidewater region of the South) are both based on atiquated British dialects. The tidewater accent was derived from Elizabethan English, while the hillbilly accent was derived from the Celtic borderlands region of northern Ireland and southern Scotland. As you move westward across the South they become blended in various ways until you come to the perfectly blended and beautifully mellifluous standard Oklahoma accent.:) "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Yes, well if thats the one you mean, I heartily agree. I never watched that program, but I know who you are referring to. I just continue to be amazed at how much American television people around the world watch. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: I just continue to be amazed at how much American television people around the world watch. I used to watch The Nanny every week. It was a fun diversion from everyday life, and she, Fran Dresher I believe, was so over the top that she was entertaining to watch*. The butler was hilarious as well, good old American-Brit dry humour. Though I must admit I have moved on from The Nanny since I was 16 or so. And yes, you will be amazed if you visit other countries and see just how much American TV we watch :) Hey Stan, do you twang and drawl when you speak? Or are you a dull, flat mid-westerner? * I don't mind over the top roles where the actor playing them knows they are over the top. I believe it is called "taking the piss" :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Senkwe Chanda wrote: All my favorite actors/actresses are American in any case Don't worry, I will pay for your counselling personally. We wil get through this problem together Senkwe... ;P British actors are just, well, they are just a damned sight better than their American counterparts. You can actually believe they are people in a vivid story, not an actor pretending to be a person in a vivid story. Naturally that is a generalisation as there are some very good American actors, just on average Brit actors are far better. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
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Tim Smith wrote: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Well, both southern accents, (i.e. the Appalachian "hillbilly" accent and the accent of the tidewater region of the South) are both based on atiquated British dialects. The tidewater accent was derived from Elizabethan English, while the hillbilly accent was derived from the Celtic borderlands region of northern Ireland and southern Scotland. As you move westward across the South they become blended in various ways until you come to the perfectly blended and beautifully mellifluous standard Oklahoma accent.:) "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
out on the NC and VA coastal islands, you can still find places where they speak with what's closer to a british accent than any kind of american one. it's pretty cool, actually - they sound like sailors from 200 years ago. -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
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All actors have trouble pulling off other accents. You should hear actors trying to pull off the southern USA accent. It is so over done it stinks. FYI: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: English isles *Cough* British! Interesting post though, thanks. Gavin Greig
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Tim Smith wrote: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Well, both southern accents, (i.e. the Appalachian "hillbilly" accent and the accent of the tidewater region of the South) are both based on atiquated British dialects. The tidewater accent was derived from Elizabethan English, while the hillbilly accent was derived from the Celtic borderlands region of northern Ireland and southern Scotland. As you move westward across the South they become blended in various ways until you come to the perfectly blended and beautifully mellifluous standard Oklahoma accent.:) "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
There is NOTHING IN THE WORLD more beautiful to hear than a south-Texas woman say "Howdy, y'all". So many women from the south want to hide their accent because they think it makes them appear stupid. It's a dirty damn shame. I can't stand to hear Britney Spears "sing", but I could listen to her talk all day. Of course, she's probably no better an actress than she is a singer, but she'd famous nonetheless. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Paul Watson wrote: Ok so what american regional accent are most of the sitcoms and dramas done in? e.g. West Wing, Spin City etc. etc. Is that mid west? Yes, that is a "refined" Midwestern accent. To be successful in broadcasting here, an American has to have that accent. Paul Watson wrote: And then you get the very heavy "twangy" accent which is what I think of as why most people cannot stand American accents. People with that accent say things like "ooohh mmmmwwwyyaa gggaawwddd!" What region is that? I guess you are referring to the "hillbilly" accent of the Appalachian region. That has more of a nasal twang than most American accents. Although, living here now in Indiana I routinely hear midwesterners with a distinct twang. The American accent that grates on me the most is the "New York" accent. I have often heard it spoken (especially by women) with what I suppose you could call a "twang" of some sort. Very annoying. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: And then you get the very heavy "twangy" accent which is what I think of as why most people cannot stand American accents. People with that accent say things like "ooohh mmmmwwwyyaa gggaawwddd!" What region is that? I guess you are referring to the "hillbilly" accent of the Appalachian region. That has more of a nasal twang than most American accents. Although, living here now in Indiana I routinely hear midwesterners with a distinct twang. As a native New Yorker, my first thought was southern Californian valley-girl. The "typical" NY accent is one of the "Brawnx," rather than the "Brahnx" (the Bronx being one of the boroughs of NYC). Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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Senkwe Chanda wrote: All my favorite actors/actresses are American in any case Don't worry, I will pay for your counselling personally. We wil get through this problem together Senkwe... ;P British actors are just, well, they are just a damned sight better than their American counterparts. You can actually believe they are people in a vivid story, not an actor pretending to be a person in a vivid story. Naturally that is a generalisation as there are some very good American actors, just on average Brit actors are far better. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: You can actually believe they are people in a vivid story, not an actor pretending to be a person in a vivid story. Part of this problem, though, is that the actors get known, and while the studios don't believe in type-casting, the audiences do. It's difficult for Mel Gibson to be seen as anything other than an action cop hero, (or as someone trying to understand women, in ... whatever movie that was). He is just known for that, and it would be difficult for anyone to accept when he tried playing an Irish clergyman or something. Mentally, the audience couldn't relate. Newer actors don't have that problem yet, as the audiences haven't developed any knowledge of their work. There are some exceptions, though, of actors who are always changing movie environments, and they still have some success at being believable. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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Tim Smith wrote: English isles *Cough* British! Interesting post though, thanks. Gavin Greig
LOL, you are right. British Isles. :) Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Tim Smith wrote: That hillbilly accent, which is different from the southern accent, has closer ties to Scotland and the English isles than most people realize. Well, both southern accents, (i.e. the Appalachian "hillbilly" accent and the accent of the tidewater region of the South) are both based on atiquated British dialects. The tidewater accent was derived from Elizabethan English, while the hillbilly accent was derived from the Celtic borderlands region of northern Ireland and southern Scotland. As you move westward across the South they become blended in various ways until you come to the perfectly blended and beautifully mellifluous standard Oklahoma accent.:) "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
My point about the differences between the southern accent and the hillbilly is that they have diverged greatly. Thanks for the clarification on the origins. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Stan Shannon wrote: I just continue to be amazed at how much American television people around the world watch. I used to watch The Nanny every week. It was a fun diversion from everyday life, and she, Fran Dresher I believe, was so over the top that she was entertaining to watch*. The butler was hilarious as well, good old American-Brit dry humour. Though I must admit I have moved on from The Nanny since I was 16 or so. And yes, you will be amazed if you visit other countries and see just how much American TV we watch :) Hey Stan, do you twang and drawl when you speak? Or are you a dull, flat mid-westerner? * I don't mind over the top roles where the actor playing them knows they are over the top. I believe it is called "taking the piss" :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Hey Stan, do you twang and drawl when you speak? Or are you a dull, flat mid-westerner Well, yes, though not as much as I used to (At least I can't here it.) My kids (good little midwesterners that they are) are always making fun of my speech. I say 'woof' for 'wolf', 'arn' for 'iron', 'tared' for 'tired' and I pronounce 'oil' in a way that cannot be expressed in writing, 'toil' for example, comes out about half way between 'tool' and 'tall', you sort of drawl the 'o' and swallow the 'i'. That line in my signature comes from something my dad used to say, except that it would have been more like: "They's a slew a slip 'twixt cup'n lip" spoken with a slight twag and a heavy drawl (cowboy like). I love going back home to listen to my people speak, especially the old timers. Its such a gentle, soothing accent. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Senkwe Chanda wrote: And that got me thinking about how strange it is that American actors are so poor at playing accents other than their own I don't think that American actors are any worse than other actors. It is just that we notice the poor accents more when they try and pull them off. I am pretty sure an American finds a British actor trying to do an American accent laughable. To us, it sounds fine, but to them, it sounds hilarious. Same with actors trying to do South African accents. I watched Mission Impossible 2 and nearly had a hernia I laughed so hard at the so called "South African" in the film (the hench man of the bad guy.) However a friend who was from the UK said to me "hey, that guy does a South African accent quite well." You are sensitive to your own accent and to accents you are familiar with. Oh, and I thought Renee did a great job in Bridget Jones. It was very understated but spot on for her role. As for the guy in Oceans 11, well he did not say much and when he did it was mumbled so you could hardly catch the accent anyway :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Same with actors trying to do South African accents. I watched Mission Impossible 2 and nearly had a hernia I laughed so hard at the so called "South African" in the film (the hench man of the bad guy.) However a friend who was from the UK said to me "hey, that guy does a South African accent quite well." I had a good laugh when watching "Swordfish", the Finnish guy, obviously a Linus clone, were speaking GERMAN!. Ok, maybe it is hard to find a decent actor who also speaks Finnish :-D , but please... Jan "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
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Paul Watson wrote: You can actually believe they are people in a vivid story, not an actor pretending to be a person in a vivid story. Part of this problem, though, is that the actors get known, and while the studios don't believe in type-casting, the audiences do. It's difficult for Mel Gibson to be seen as anything other than an action cop hero, (or as someone trying to understand women, in ... whatever movie that was). He is just known for that, and it would be difficult for anyone to accept when he tried playing an Irish clergyman or something. Mentally, the audience couldn't relate. Newer actors don't have that problem yet, as the audiences haven't developed any knowledge of their work. There are some exceptions, though, of actors who are always changing movie environments, and they still have some success at being believable. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
David Chamberlain wrote: Part of this problem, though, is that the actors get known, and while the studios don't believe in type-casting, the audiences do While I am no expert on the topic I believe you are very right. However really good actors pick and choose their roles, avoid being type casted and can work in virtually any role (naturally Dame Judy Dench cannot play Seven of Nine in Star Trek as certain physical attributes are required) successfully. Actors like Dame Judy Dench have done everything from hard police inspector through to gentle grandmother. She pulls them off amazingly well and even though we all know she is a tough cookie when you see her playing a gentle role you come to really believe that she is gentle. Arnold in a gentle role just does not work, no matter how hard he tries, he comes off as goofy when he does try, not gentle. So a good actor can rise above type casting IMHO :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Paul Watson wrote: Same with actors trying to do South African accents. I watched Mission Impossible 2 and nearly had a hernia I laughed so hard at the so called "South African" in the film (the hench man of the bad guy.) However a friend who was from the UK said to me "hey, that guy does a South African accent quite well." I had a good laugh when watching "Swordfish", the Finnish guy, obviously a Linus clone, were speaking GERMAN!. Ok, maybe it is hard to find a decent actor who also speaks Finnish :-D , but please... Jan "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
It's not uncommon. I have been told by Norwegian friends that the Norwegians in John Carpenter's "The Thing" speak German(ish).
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changing accents is a talent separate from acting itself. and some people have the talent, and some don't. i don't think your conclusion that it's somehow an "american" fault is justified - and frankly it's a bit disturbing. -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
Chris Losinger wrote: i don't think your conclusion that it's somehow an "american" fault is justified - and frankly it's a bit disturbing Isn't it amazing all the 'American's are like this' 'American's are like that' stuff you hear from people around the world? I actually find it quite amusing, and find myself compeled to play along with it. The great irony is that *we* are *them* - just an amalgamation of the varios peoples of the world welded together by a slightly different take on culture and politics. Logically, how is it possible that we could really be all that much different? "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Stan Shannon wrote: By 'American Accent' you undoubtedly mean the standard 'Midwestern' accent which is generally regarded as the "American Accent". I should think that it would be a fairly easy accent for anyone to pick up. It has such a flat, and monotone resonance. Ok so what american regional accent are most of the sitcoms and dramas done in? e.g. West Wing, Spin City etc. etc. Is that mid west? And then you get the very heavy "twangy" accent which is what I think of as why most people cannot stand American accents. People with that accent say things like "ooohh mmmmwwwyyaa gggaawwddd!" What region is that? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Chris Losinger wrote: i don't think your conclusion that it's somehow an "american" fault is justified - and frankly it's a bit disturbing Isn't it amazing all the 'American's are like this' 'American's are like that' stuff you hear from people around the world? I actually find it quite amusing, and find myself compeled to play along with it. The great irony is that *we* are *them* - just an amalgamation of the varios peoples of the world welded together by a slightly different take on culture and politics. Logically, how is it possible that we could really be all that much different? "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: Isn't it amazing all the 'American's are like this' 'American's are like that' stuff you hear from people around the world? Perhaps the fact that American (cultural) influence is so widespread has something to do with that ?
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Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse