Here it comes!
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Michel Prévost wrote:
That is the sad part. US want to pollute as much as it wants.
No, it's because other countries like China and India are exempt from the rules, and this would give them an unfair advantage.
But the reason china and india are exempted is to allow then to grow and acchieve the same wealth as the west (including the US). You can only object to their exemption if you feel the US is as impovirished as those two countires, or, you dont give a fuck about them becoming as wealthy as the US. But, the quickest way to what will be the future si to allow these countries to come up to speed as fast as possible. That way, they will become viable markets for US exports. We have the same issues with eastern europe. We can exclude them from the wealth club, or we can get them up to speed as fast as possible. And we have to take that pain on the chin for now, it will come right in the end, and the faster we get there the better. Nunc est bibendum
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Michel Prévost wrote:
when there is no more resource
What do you think happens when we pull oil out of the ground? It just stops? No! :doh: It doesn't. They start filling up again! There is this thing called nature that just keeps on working with complete disregard to man. For what you are implying has happened is that man has completely stopped the entire eco-system and that isn't going to happen. So calm down...! 'The Day After Tomorrow' was just a movie. ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
Ed K wrote:
They start filling up again!
That's not quite true. An oil field extends far past the actually area the easily extracted oil is removed from. Once an 'empty' well is capped and abandoned, the residual oil that extended into the surrounding rock seeps back into the emptied area. Some old wells have been reopened to remove this residual content. However, generally speaking, it is of a lower quality than the original content and hence needs additional refining capacity before coming to market - hence is more expensive. (Unless you have an alternative theory for the spontaneous gneration of oil)
Ed K wrote:
There is this thing called nature that just keeps on working with complete disregard to man.
Yes, but just because it disregards us, it doesn't necessarily follow that we can disregard it. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
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kgaddy wrote:
I'm in the very rich country of the US making a lot of money
Exactly why everyone wants to move over there :-) Right now, most Indian teenagers studying Computer Science want to move to the US. Cause of all the wealth out there :-)
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from you're post above... I'm in the very rich country of the US making a lot of money And one reason why a lot of people dont like the US. Not because of the wealth as you would like to think but because of that attitude. If you think wealth earns happiness, health (wait maybe you do need money for that in America) or respect you are misguided. Rich men often die lonely.
Maybe you didnt get what I was saying, read the whole post. And who said I was happy because I'm doing well? I was just as happy when I was poor and in college. And BTW, I want everyone to be rich and be happy. If your country was wealthy and doing well, I would be very happy for you. Recent polls say that Americans are more happy than Europeans. I dont know if that is true, but I know how I feel. You need to quite worrying about other poeple's wealth and start worrying about your own situation. I hope you strike it rich whereever you are, I would truly be happy for you.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Exactly why everyone wants to move over there
No Sir :) Not everybody wants to sell his/her soul to the golden calf.
Tiefe Wasser sind nicht still Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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But the reason china and india are exempted is to allow then to grow and acchieve the same wealth as the west (including the US). You can only object to their exemption if you feel the US is as impovirished as those two countires, or, you dont give a fuck about them becoming as wealthy as the US. But, the quickest way to what will be the future si to allow these countries to come up to speed as fast as possible. That way, they will become viable markets for US exports. We have the same issues with eastern europe. We can exclude them from the wealth club, or we can get them up to speed as fast as possible. And we have to take that pain on the chin for now, it will come right in the end, and the faster we get there the better. Nunc est bibendum
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K(arl) wrote: Not everybody wants to sell his/her soul to the golden calf. I think you misunderstand. You can be lazy here too if you want! But if you choose to do well, it's very easy here. the choice is yours.:-D
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Do you believe that 20 years from now when they are wealthy they will give up thir polluting ways???? Makes no sense. If you want to stop pollution this crazy.
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I think you misunderstand, the value of a man resides in what he gives and not in what he is capable of receiving.
Tiefe Wasser sind nicht still Fold with us! ¤ flickr
Yes, and the best gift is freedom to do what you want. If you want to be lazy and drink beer all day? Go for it! I really dont care. I just hate it when the beer drinker starts complaining that the other people have more than him and claims it's not fair. Where I live people are very giving. If someone is in trouble we band together and help out. It's beautiful.
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We can cut them some slack for now, till their economies are up to the extra cost of polution control. The US option is to let them do what they want, and to keep on poluting itself! Now that is crazy! Nunc est bibendum
No, The US knew it was a crazy plan, and unfair to the US. If the goal is to cut pollution, then cut it. If it is to bring down one economey, to lift another, then just say it. Here is a good article: "Now, according to the June 12 issue of USA Today, "Economists from the Clinton White House now concede that complying with Kyoto’s mandatory reductions in greenhouse gases would be difficult – and more expensive to American consumers than they thought when they were in charge." This change in tune from the Clintonites is part of the reason that Bush decided to reject Kyoto." http://www.globalwarming.org/article.php?uid=519
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No, The US knew it was a crazy plan, and unfair to the US. If the goal is to cut pollution, then cut it. If it is to bring down one economey, to lift another, then just say it. Here is a good article: "Now, according to the June 12 issue of USA Today, "Economists from the Clinton White House now concede that complying with Kyoto’s mandatory reductions in greenhouse gases would be difficult – and more expensive to American consumers than they thought when they were in charge." This change in tune from the Clintonites is part of the reason that Bush decided to reject Kyoto." http://www.globalwarming.org/article.php?uid=519
kgaddy wrote:
bring down one economey
Kyoto was signed by more than just the US. How about the whole of Europe and Japan, and god knows what else. The fact is the US hasnt got the maturity to do this. You still only think of yourselves, and fuck anyone else. Always has been and always will. Look at Iraq, another fuck you move whos sole purpose was to get Iraqi oil. Its about time the US grew up a bit you know, the wild west days are long gone. Nunc est bibendum
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kgaddy wrote:
bring down one economey
Kyoto was signed by more than just the US. How about the whole of Europe and Japan, and god knows what else. The fact is the US hasnt got the maturity to do this. You still only think of yourselves, and fuck anyone else. Always has been and always will. Look at Iraq, another fuck you move whos sole purpose was to get Iraqi oil. Its about time the US grew up a bit you know, the wild west days are long gone. Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
Kyoto was signed by more than just the US. How about the whole of Europe and Japan, and god knows what else.
They had nothing to lose.
fat_boy wrote:
You still only think of yourselves
Sure we do. Every county thinks of themselves. They are supposed to. Your country does it.
fat_boy wrote:
another f*** you move whos sole purpose was to get Iraqi oil.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Tell me, where is this "oil" the US took. I sure would love to have some. The fact is, Iraq has only cost the US money. The only thing the US will get from Iraq is, hopefully one day, peace.
fat_boy wrote:
Its about time the US grew up a bit you know, the wild west days are long gone.
:wtf:
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Lawsuits against the US over Global Warming[^] which isn't jiving with the possibility of a mini ice age.[^] Note that the article blames it on Global Warming however it also notes that temps worldwide haven't been this warm for 12,000 years. Go ahead and raise your hands if you were driving back then...or if any of your ancestors were causing it. ;P ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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fat_boy wrote:
Kyoto was signed by more than just the US. How about the whole of Europe and Japan, and god knows what else.
They had nothing to lose.
fat_boy wrote:
You still only think of yourselves
Sure we do. Every county thinks of themselves. They are supposed to. Your country does it.
fat_boy wrote:
another f*** you move whos sole purpose was to get Iraqi oil.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Tell me, where is this "oil" the US took. I sure would love to have some. The fact is, Iraq has only cost the US money. The only thing the US will get from Iraq is, hopefully one day, peace.
fat_boy wrote:
Its about time the US grew up a bit you know, the wild west days are long gone.
:wtf:
kgaddy wrote:
They had nothing to lose
What? Seriously, please explain what you mean.
kgaddy wrote:
Every county thinks of themselves. They are supposed to. Your country does it.
Except those who signed the Kyoto agreement. Their thoughts are to limit environmental damage, while giving third and second world economies a chance to grow.
kgaddy wrote:
Iraq has only cost the US money
Yeah, wasnt supposed to turn out like this was it? You thought youd go in, take out Sadam, be welcomed as heroes, put in place a puppet government and secure the largest oil reserve in the world for sale in dollars, at a price suiting you. Ha ha! You fucked up big time. What a bunch of naive idiots you have in government! You are NEVER going to get out of Iraq.If you do, all the oil in the east will go to Iran. Or some Shia like break away country like Iran. You might still get favourable treatment from the Kurds though, so you might be able to control Kirkuk! But then Turkey might invade if the Kurds break away from Baghdad. What a fucking disaster, you are in a right mess. Nunc est bibendum
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kgaddy wrote:
They had nothing to lose
What? Seriously, please explain what you mean.
kgaddy wrote:
Every county thinks of themselves. They are supposed to. Your country does it.
Except those who signed the Kyoto agreement. Their thoughts are to limit environmental damage, while giving third and second world economies a chance to grow.
kgaddy wrote:
Iraq has only cost the US money
Yeah, wasnt supposed to turn out like this was it? You thought youd go in, take out Sadam, be welcomed as heroes, put in place a puppet government and secure the largest oil reserve in the world for sale in dollars, at a price suiting you. Ha ha! You fucked up big time. What a bunch of naive idiots you have in government! You are NEVER going to get out of Iraq.If you do, all the oil in the east will go to Iran. Or some Shia like break away country like Iran. You might still get favourable treatment from the Kurds though, so you might be able to control Kirkuk! But then Turkey might invade if the Kurds break away from Baghdad. What a fucking disaster, you are in a right mess. Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
You thought youd go in, take out Sadam, be welcomed as heroes, put in place a puppet government and secure the largest oil reserve in the world for sale in dollars, at a price suiting you.
Where did you get that idea? The US has always wanted to go in and and leave. And secure oil for a price suiting the US???? Where did you read that? proof please. Or is that just a feeling you have based on no truth.
fat_boy wrote:
Ha ha! You f***ed up big time. What a bunch of naive idiots you have in government!
What are you talking about? Our goverment has ALWAYS said it woould be hard. YOU are naive to think any diffrent.
fat_boy wrote:
You are NEVER going to get out of Iraq.If you do, all the oil in the east will go to Iran. Or some Shia like break away country like Iran. You might still get favourable treatment from the Kurds though, so you might be able to control Kirkuk!
Ok, lets talk in 5-10 years and see what happens. Til then it all conjecture.
fat_boy wrote:
But then Turkey might invade if the Kurds break away from Baghdad. What a f***ing disaster, you are in a right mess.
A mess that HAD to be confronted. Too bad the US is the only country willing to step up for the job.
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Ed K wrote:
They start filling up again!
That's not quite true. An oil field extends far past the actually area the easily extracted oil is removed from. Once an 'empty' well is capped and abandoned, the residual oil that extended into the surrounding rock seeps back into the emptied area. Some old wells have been reopened to remove this residual content. However, generally speaking, it is of a lower quality than the original content and hence needs additional refining capacity before coming to market - hence is more expensive. (Unless you have an alternative theory for the spontaneous gneration of oil)
Ed K wrote:
There is this thing called nature that just keeps on working with complete disregard to man.
Yes, but just because it disregards us, it doesn't necessarily follow that we can disregard it. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
Reverend Satan wrote:
That's not quite true.
Oh yes it is true! The process that created the oil field continues whether you want to believe it or not.
Reverend Satan wrote:
necessarily follow that we can disregard it
Are you saying I'm disregarding nature. :| Sounds more like you are. :suss: ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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fat_boy wrote:
You thought youd go in, take out Sadam, be welcomed as heroes, put in place a puppet government and secure the largest oil reserve in the world for sale in dollars, at a price suiting you.
Where did you get that idea? The US has always wanted to go in and and leave. And secure oil for a price suiting the US???? Where did you read that? proof please. Or is that just a feeling you have based on no truth.
fat_boy wrote:
Ha ha! You f***ed up big time. What a bunch of naive idiots you have in government!
What are you talking about? Our goverment has ALWAYS said it woould be hard. YOU are naive to think any diffrent.
fat_boy wrote:
You are NEVER going to get out of Iraq.If you do, all the oil in the east will go to Iran. Or some Shia like break away country like Iran. You might still get favourable treatment from the Kurds though, so you might be able to control Kirkuk!
Ok, lets talk in 5-10 years and see what happens. Til then it all conjecture.
fat_boy wrote:
But then Turkey might invade if the Kurds break away from Baghdad. What a f***ing disaster, you are in a right mess.
A mess that HAD to be confronted. Too bad the US is the only country willing to step up for the job.
kgaddy wrote:
go in and and leave
Bollocks. PNAC clearly states it wants more military bases in the middle east. You never had any intention of leaving.
kgaddy wrote:
secure oil for a price suiting the US
What are you going to do, sell it to yourselves at an inflated price?
kgaddy wrote:
it woould be hard
Yeah, but its even harder than they thought, correct?
kgaddy wrote:
lets talk in 5-10 years
If you pull out the place is gauranteed to break into two or three regions. the SHias will definitely split from the Sunis, they hate each other. The Kurds might stay with the Sunis, it depends on Turkey, and how much they are prepared to do to stop a seperate Kurdistan.
kgaddy wrote:
A mess that HAD to be confronted
Why, Sadam was no threat. He was due to die in a few years. Perhaps an acceptable pro west government would have formed. After all, Sadam was once acceptable pro west wasnt he? Nunc est bibendum
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kgaddy wrote:
go in and and leave
Bollocks. PNAC clearly states it wants more military bases in the middle east. You never had any intention of leaving.
kgaddy wrote:
secure oil for a price suiting the US
What are you going to do, sell it to yourselves at an inflated price?
kgaddy wrote:
it woould be hard
Yeah, but its even harder than they thought, correct?
kgaddy wrote:
lets talk in 5-10 years
If you pull out the place is gauranteed to break into two or three regions. the SHias will definitely split from the Sunis, they hate each other. The Kurds might stay with the Sunis, it depends on Turkey, and how much they are prepared to do to stop a seperate Kurdistan.
kgaddy wrote:
A mess that HAD to be confronted
Why, Sadam was no threat. He was due to die in a few years. Perhaps an acceptable pro west government would have formed. After all, Sadam was once acceptable pro west wasnt he? Nunc est bibendum
Are you saying PNAC is official US policy???
fat_boy wrote:
What are you going to do, sell it to yourselves at an inflated price?
Well if we controll it I could see your point but how could we sell it if we do not own it??? Show me proof thta 1) the US is in control of the oil and 2) selling it at a cheap price to US oil companies.
fat_boy wrote:
If you pull out the place is gauranteed to break into two or three regions.
gauranteed? whatever.
fat_boy wrote:
Why, Sadam was no threat. He was due to die in a few years.
I cannot believe I'm hearing this. Do you have knowledge that he was going to die? Unbelievable.
fat_boy wrote:
Perhaps an acceptable pro west government would have formed.
What, one acceptable to him?
fat_boy wrote:
After all, Sadam was once acceptable pro west wasnt he?
So was Hitler, does not mean anyone would think he would turn back into a good guy. This conversation is taking a surreal turn. Do you really believe this stuff?
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Exactly why everyone wants to move over there
No Sir :) Not everybody wants to sell his/her soul to the golden calf.
Tiefe Wasser sind nicht still Fold with us! ¤ flickr
K(arl) wrote:
Not everybody wants to sell his/her soul to the golden calf.
And the Golden Calf doesn't want everybody either. Richard Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
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Michel Prévost wrote:
There is probably a whole bunch of reasons why the US does not want to sign the Treaty,but the current administration is not known to be willing to make an effort to fight pollution, in fact, Bush has been denying global warming (he may have changed his mind since then, though).
Just my opinion, but I'm not convinced it all man's doing. The climate has changed without the help of man in the past on a frequent basis. I think the jury is still out on this one. BTW, here is St. Louis, its cold as hell. I wish there was a little global warming over here.
kgaddy wrote:
here is St. Louis, its cold as hell.
Hmmmm. All the data I can collect on Hell indicated that it has the ultimate in heating systems and is a real hot place to go. I believe in Global something. In Dallas last Saturday it was 90 F. This morning it was 17F ( Thursday) and its supposed to be 60F on Saturday. I say Mother Nature is pissed and treaties, meetings, knashing of heads, sacrifice, and other forms of appeasement are necessary. I predict earthquakes, floods, fires, and famine in the future. I am going to form the Church Of Mother Nature Inc.( a non profit - almost - organization ) that will co-ordinate with the Powers That Be in reversing this. All for a small - yet to be determined - fee. This fee will pay for the Church - the church founder's porche and wardrobe - and transportation to the worlds hot spots for prayer and meditation. Such hot spots as Hawaii, Mexico, Bahama, etc.. SOmeone has got to do it. Richard THFIC Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
