More niggly issues with VS2005
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I'll probably be adding to this list over the course of the day (I also want to point out that I'm not just being argumentative or overly critical, I just want the product to be what I need it to be): 1) In the Solution Explorer tab of the workspace window, "Source Files" really should be the first item in the tree (like it was in VS6). It makes more sense because I'm in the source files much more than the rest. 2) The Property Manager tab should be moved into the Solution Manager tree as the last tree item. 3) When you un-pin the workspace window, and then hover the mouse over the side-tabs, the workspace window shows up, but it doesn't account for the Error List window being displayed, and covers it up. 4) I turned off window animations, but there's still a speed penalty (in the form of a 1-2 second delay) involved in displaying un-pinned windows. It's almost like the IDE is still running through the code that animates the window, but just now displaying the visual changes until the window being rolled out says "okay, I'm finished rolling out". For completeness, I'll also mention that the side tabs on BOTH sides of the screen do this. The delay is also there when you move the mouse off the window that was rolled out. 5) The XP look and the non-adherance to user-specified system-wide window properties is still pissing me off. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I'll probably be adding to this list over the course of the day (I also want to point out that I'm not just being argumentative or overly critical, I just want the product to be what I need it to be): 1) In the Solution Explorer tab of the workspace window, "Source Files" really should be the first item in the tree (like it was in VS6). It makes more sense because I'm in the source files much more than the rest. 2) The Property Manager tab should be moved into the Solution Manager tree as the last tree item. 3) When you un-pin the workspace window, and then hover the mouse over the side-tabs, the workspace window shows up, but it doesn't account for the Error List window being displayed, and covers it up. 4) I turned off window animations, but there's still a speed penalty (in the form of a 1-2 second delay) involved in displaying un-pinned windows. It's almost like the IDE is still running through the code that animates the window, but just now displaying the visual changes until the window being rolled out says "okay, I'm finished rolling out". For completeness, I'll also mention that the side tabs on BOTH sides of the screen do this. The delay is also there when you move the mouse off the window that was rolled out. 5) The XP look and the non-adherance to user-specified system-wide window properties is still pissing me off. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Just create a simple dialog. Put an "OK" button on it, and set the AcceptButton property to this button. Run the application. Show this Form from another one with "ShowDialog". Click "OK" and it won't close, because the DialogResult property wasn't properly set on the button. On VS 2003, this works. It took me 5 minutes to find this bug. Probably, someone would take another 5 minutes to fix it. I don't see dead pixels anymore... Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I'll probably be adding to this list over the course of the day (I also want to point out that I'm not just being argumentative or overly critical, I just want the product to be what I need it to be): 1) In the Solution Explorer tab of the workspace window, "Source Files" really should be the first item in the tree (like it was in VS6). It makes more sense because I'm in the source files much more than the rest. 2) The Property Manager tab should be moved into the Solution Manager tree as the last tree item. 3) When you un-pin the workspace window, and then hover the mouse over the side-tabs, the workspace window shows up, but it doesn't account for the Error List window being displayed, and covers it up. 4) I turned off window animations, but there's still a speed penalty (in the form of a 1-2 second delay) involved in displaying un-pinned windows. It's almost like the IDE is still running through the code that animates the window, but just now displaying the visual changes until the window being rolled out says "okay, I'm finished rolling out". For completeness, I'll also mention that the side tabs on BOTH sides of the screen do this. The delay is also there when you move the mouse off the window that was rolled out. 5) The XP look and the non-adherance to user-specified system-wide window properties is still pissing me off. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Are you reporting all these issues to the Product Feedback Center[^] too. I hope so. It would be nice to see some of these annoyances fixed. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Are you reporting all these issues to the Product Feedback Center[^] too. I hope so. It would be nice to see some of these annoyances fixed. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
No, because it requires setting up a Passport account, and I remember the initial Passport rollout. It doesn't give me a warm/fuzzy. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Are you reporting all these issues to the Product Feedback Center[^] too. I hope so. It would be nice to see some of these annoyances fixed. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
That no one at MS saw those bugs? VS 2005 is a good product, and indeed it makes me more productive, but it's naive to think that MS didn't notice all those bugs. It seems more and more of a software released before the bugs were fixed, because the schedule was late. Do you think it's a coincidence the "Product Feedback Center"? For me, it looks like they're trying to make us busy writing all those bugs they already know, because this would bring them more time to release a "Service Pack". I don't see dead pixels anymore... Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I'll probably be adding to this list over the course of the day (I also want to point out that I'm not just being argumentative or overly critical, I just want the product to be what I need it to be): 1) In the Solution Explorer tab of the workspace window, "Source Files" really should be the first item in the tree (like it was in VS6). It makes more sense because I'm in the source files much more than the rest. 2) The Property Manager tab should be moved into the Solution Manager tree as the last tree item. 3) When you un-pin the workspace window, and then hover the mouse over the side-tabs, the workspace window shows up, but it doesn't account for the Error List window being displayed, and covers it up. 4) I turned off window animations, but there's still a speed penalty (in the form of a 1-2 second delay) involved in displaying un-pinned windows. It's almost like the IDE is still running through the code that animates the window, but just now displaying the visual changes until the window being rolled out says "okay, I'm finished rolling out". For completeness, I'll also mention that the side tabs on BOTH sides of the screen do this. The delay is also there when you move the mouse off the window that was rolled out. 5) The XP look and the non-adherance to user-specified system-wide window properties is still pissing me off. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Ahhhh, the voting morons are at it again, even when I made an attempt at being tolerant. What's wrong? Have I started too many dveelopment-oriented threads this week? Are you mad because I found these issues and you didn't notice them? Are you annoyed that I'm shinging the harsh light of reality on another half-assed development product made by your favorite monopolistic coporation? Are you incensed because I'm an old-world programmer that can understand and uses pointers while you wallow in a false sense of ability while pretending to be programmers, crapping out "managed" code? Do you think I should be deprecated because I can use the old strcpy without suffering buffer overruns? What a bunch of fuckin' clowns... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 11:31 Sunday 11th December, 2005
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That no one at MS saw those bugs? VS 2005 is a good product, and indeed it makes me more productive, but it's naive to think that MS didn't notice all those bugs. It seems more and more of a software released before the bugs were fixed, because the schedule was late. Do you think it's a coincidence the "Product Feedback Center"? For me, it looks like they're trying to make us busy writing all those bugs they already know, because this would bring them more time to release a "Service Pack". I don't see dead pixels anymore... Yes, even I am blogging now!
They're also wholesale rejecting performance and usability suggestions. I think I'm going to make a sugestion that they come up with even more frilly descriptions of IDE components (like their gay "user experience" bullshit). (Pardon me, but I'm just a little pissed off at some CP users right now, so my level of absurdity tolerance is pretty low.) ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 10:38 Sunday 11th December, 2005
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No, because it requires setting up a Passport account, and I remember the initial Passport rollout. It doesn't give me a warm/fuzzy. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
No, because it requires setting up a Passport account, and I remember the initial Passport rollout. It doesn't give me a warm/fuzzy.
Fair enough. I haven't had chance to really use VS2005 beyond playing with the various Express versions as I can't afford the upgrade at the moment. However when I do, I'll have a look at your issues and report them if somebody hasn't beaten me to it. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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That no one at MS saw those bugs? VS 2005 is a good product, and indeed it makes me more productive, but it's naive to think that MS didn't notice all those bugs. It seems more and more of a software released before the bugs were fixed, because the schedule was late. Do you think it's a coincidence the "Product Feedback Center"? For me, it looks like they're trying to make us busy writing all those bugs they already know, because this would bring them more time to release a "Service Pack". I don't see dead pixels anymore... Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote:
That no one at MS saw those bugs? VS 2005 is a good product, and indeed it makes me more productive, but it's naive to think that MS didn't notice all those bugs. It seems more and more of a software released before the bugs were fixed, because the schedule was late.
Well, if they are like me then they probably weighed up the cost of fixing the bugs against the "cost" of not fixing them. I haven't enough experience with using VS2005 to know how bad the problems are. Maybe they made the wrong call this time or maybe they really thought they had a product that would work well for the vast majority of the user-base. The 'Product Feedback Centre' is one way of registering which problems are affecting us most, so that Microsoft can fix the ones that are "pissing off" most customers. I know that some of the VS team are picking up some of the problems from reading about them on blogs but I don't know how many of the VS team are reading 'The Lounge'. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Just create a simple dialog. Put an "OK" button on it, and set the AcceptButton property to this button. Run the application. Show this Form from another one with "ShowDialog". Click "OK" and it won't close, because the DialogResult property wasn't properly set on the button. On VS 2003, this works. It took me 5 minutes to find this bug. Probably, someone would take another 5 minutes to fix it. I don't see dead pixels anymore... Yes, even I am blogging now!
Perhpas this isn't actually a bug. It could be a (strange) designed behavior of the framework, avoiding null results... ___________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA] - eMule Server .NET
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Daniel Turini wrote:
That no one at MS saw those bugs? VS 2005 is a good product, and indeed it makes me more productive, but it's naive to think that MS didn't notice all those bugs. It seems more and more of a software released before the bugs were fixed, because the schedule was late.
Well, if they are like me then they probably weighed up the cost of fixing the bugs against the "cost" of not fixing them. I haven't enough experience with using VS2005 to know how bad the problems are. Maybe they made the wrong call this time or maybe they really thought they had a product that would work well for the vast majority of the user-base. The 'Product Feedback Centre' is one way of registering which problems are affecting us most, so that Microsoft can fix the ones that are "pissing off" most customers. I know that some of the VS team are picking up some of the problems from reading about them on blogs but I don't know how many of the VS team are reading 'The Lounge'. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
They've had 6 people complain about the IDE theming issue, and they said it's "by design" and there will be no "fix". Now, let's talk "pissed off". I don't know who "Jason" is (on the feedback site), but he needs his ass kicked. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Ahhhh, the voting morons are at it again, even when I made an attempt at being tolerant. What's wrong? Have I started too many dveelopment-oriented threads this week? Are you mad because I found these issues and you didn't notice them? Are you annoyed that I'm shinging the harsh light of reality on another half-assed development product made by your favorite monopolistic coporation? Are you incensed because I'm an old-world programmer that can understand and uses pointers while you wallow in a false sense of ability while pretending to be programmers, crapping out "managed" code? Do you think I should be deprecated because I can use the old strcpy without suffering buffer overruns? What a bunch of fuckin' clowns... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 11:31 Sunday 11th December, 2005
I'll help you out and give ya a 5. Thanks for the heads up, I'm not yet using VS2005, but I like hearing any feedback I can get before dishing out money for it. Brian Van Beek Here's my boring blog! [^]
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Ahhhh, the voting morons are at it again, even when I made an attempt at being tolerant. What's wrong? Have I started too many dveelopment-oriented threads this week? Are you mad because I found these issues and you didn't notice them? Are you annoyed that I'm shinging the harsh light of reality on another half-assed development product made by your favorite monopolistic coporation? Are you incensed because I'm an old-world programmer that can understand and uses pointers while you wallow in a false sense of ability while pretending to be programmers, crapping out "managed" code? Do you think I should be deprecated because I can use the old strcpy without suffering buffer overruns? What a bunch of fuckin' clowns... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 11:31 Sunday 11th December, 2005
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
What's wrong?
i don't think it's you. all the threads below this have been abused by stupid votes, too. looks like someone taught their pre-school class how to use CP. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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No, because it requires setting up a Passport account, and I remember the initial Passport rollout. It doesn't give me a warm/fuzzy. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
To set up a passport account does not require any personal information. And, you can use your own email account, outlaw@whatever.com. Finally, you'd no longer be missing out on all the "good" things M$ has for you -- LOL.
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They've had 6 people complain about the IDE theming issue, and they said it's "by design" and there will be no "fix". Now, let's talk "pissed off". I don't know who "Jason" is (on the feedback site), but he needs his ass kicked. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't know who "Jason" is (on the feedback site), but he needs his ass kicked.
He's one of the VS team's product managers. (Whatever a product manager is) The theming issue doesn't really bother me. It's kinda what I've come to expect of software running on Windows XP. I don't know what it does on Win2k though, from what I've read VS2005 on Win2k should be using the standard interface. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Ahhhh, the voting morons are at it again, even when I made an attempt at being tolerant. What's wrong? Have I started too many dveelopment-oriented threads this week? Are you mad because I found these issues and you didn't notice them? Are you annoyed that I'm shinging the harsh light of reality on another half-assed development product made by your favorite monopolistic coporation? Are you incensed because I'm an old-world programmer that can understand and uses pointers while you wallow in a false sense of ability while pretending to be programmers, crapping out "managed" code? Do you think I should be deprecated because I can use the old strcpy without suffering buffer overruns? What a bunch of fuckin' clowns... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 11:31 Sunday 11th December, 2005
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
What a bunch of fuckin' clowns...
We seem to be suffering from a bit of hit and run voting again. Perhaps somebody had been told to do their own homework in one of the other forums and so is having a childish spat... I'm going to make a suggestion to Chris that we can have an option to not show the voting in forums. I have no real interest in what other people vote for my posts or what they vote other peoples either. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't know who "Jason" is (on the feedback site), but he needs his ass kicked.
He's one of the VS team's product managers. (Whatever a product manager is) The theming issue doesn't really bother me. It's kinda what I've come to expect of software running on Windows XP. I don't know what it does on Win2k though, from what I've read VS2005 on Win2k should be using the standard interface. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
from what I've read VS2005 on Win2k should be using the standard interface Well, it doesn't. :/ I'd be okay with it if it at least used the right font settings. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 13:26 Sunday 11th December, 2005
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I'll probably be adding to this list over the course of the day (I also want to point out that I'm not just being argumentative or overly critical, I just want the product to be what I need it to be): 1) In the Solution Explorer tab of the workspace window, "Source Files" really should be the first item in the tree (like it was in VS6). It makes more sense because I'm in the source files much more than the rest. 2) The Property Manager tab should be moved into the Solution Manager tree as the last tree item. 3) When you un-pin the workspace window, and then hover the mouse over the side-tabs, the workspace window shows up, but it doesn't account for the Error List window being displayed, and covers it up. 4) I turned off window animations, but there's still a speed penalty (in the form of a 1-2 second delay) involved in displaying un-pinned windows. It's almost like the IDE is still running through the code that animates the window, but just now displaying the visual changes until the window being rolled out says "okay, I'm finished rolling out". For completeness, I'll also mention that the side tabs on BOTH sides of the screen do this. The delay is also there when you move the mouse off the window that was rolled out. 5) The XP look and the non-adherance to user-specified system-wide window properties is still pissing me off. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
The impression I get with VS 2005 (and also with VS 2003) is that it has been designed first and foremost to accomodate C# and VB .NET. C++ development has been an afterthought. I cannot myself vouch for this, since so far I've only done C# and VB in the new IDEs, not C++ (apart from the odd toy program). Whenever I 've had to do any real C++ since .NET has been out it's always been under VC 6. When I first heard back in about 1999 that MS was moving to a common "VB-style" IDE for all the languages I knew they'd have a tough time accommodating C++. Having said this it doesn't seem like it should have been an impossible task. It seems to be more down to the fact that they'd like everyone to use .NET primarily and C++ only when nothing else will do. So less attention has been paid to C++ developers. Kevin
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Ahhhh, the voting morons are at it again, even when I made an attempt at being tolerant. What's wrong? Have I started too many dveelopment-oriented threads this week? Are you mad because I found these issues and you didn't notice them? Are you annoyed that I'm shinging the harsh light of reality on another half-assed development product made by your favorite monopolistic coporation? Are you incensed because I'm an old-world programmer that can understand and uses pointers while you wallow in a false sense of ability while pretending to be programmers, crapping out "managed" code? Do you think I should be deprecated because I can use the old strcpy without suffering buffer overruns? What a bunch of fuckin' clowns... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 11:31 Sunday 11th December, 2005
In all fairness these issues you are having have been well talked about all over the web. Marc even setup a blog for it. Plus there is a forum here on CP for it. And you are one of the first to complain how fast the Lounge scrolls by. Maybe make one thread and stick to it. I didn't vote you down but I am now just skipping over your threads as they are... tedious? Nothing personal :) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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To set up a passport account does not require any personal information. And, you can use your own email account, outlaw@whatever.com. Finally, you'd no longer be missing out on all the "good" things M$ has for you -- LOL.
We should not do Microsoft's programmers jobs for them. The company allowed this product to be released with some 3000+ bugs (that the users had posted for them) and they decided that it was more important to meet their own artificial deadline than maybe get it right. They got our "Free" quality control and time during the beta and RC. They've been doing this crap to us for the past 5 years or so. I don't believe blindly following one company just to maintain one standard is the key. Are some people actually willing to forgive a company that continues to pack on the features (and bugs) instead of fixes some of the older ones. Intellisense, has been busted for, hmm, 7 or more years and numerous service packs and VS versions. "Just delete the .ncb file".....That's not a solution. That gets so frickin' old and wastes so much frickin' time. I've been watching my class disappear randomly when I decide to create a new member function. I have to shut the app down, delete the .ncb file to get my frickin' class back also. Pathetic! Don't do that company any more favors. Let them suffer the same fate as GM is poised to suffer. I kept buying their cars and the creeks and rattles continued on ever car I've bought over the last 15 years. I'm sick of blindly forgiving these lazy companies. F'em.