Career Advice
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch Hedberg -
After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch HedbergJames Simpson wrote: After 3 and a half years in the same job James Simpson wrote: Im 23 and confident about my abilities. James Simpson wrote: all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! With not intent on insulting you, These 3 statements to me says you are more impatient than anything else. I am in Texas, USA not UK so I may be off a bit. Any inexperienced people who contract are the ones who get the grunt work NO ONE ELSE wants, where I am at. Now if you truely want variety and do not care what then yes, contracting may be what you want. My take on what you said is you really want is architecting/prototype type work. Which means you need to find different position within your employeer or different firm does not matter to much. Just how I read the post. Good luck. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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James Simpson wrote: After 3 and a half years in the same job James Simpson wrote: Im 23 and confident about my abilities. James Simpson wrote: all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! With not intent on insulting you, These 3 statements to me says you are more impatient than anything else. I am in Texas, USA not UK so I may be off a bit. Any inexperienced people who contract are the ones who get the grunt work NO ONE ELSE wants, where I am at. Now if you truely want variety and do not care what then yes, contracting may be what you want. My take on what you said is you really want is architecting/prototype type work. Which means you need to find different position within your employeer or different firm does not matter to much. Just how I read the post. Good luck. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
I totally agree. Contractors get the stuff no internal wants to do, or need to quickly come in to help with a short-term peak demand (meaning, no way you get proper introduction into the problem because everybody is too busy). The third group is guru-hire. That is when companies pay through the nose for some really experienced contractor to do something really special or tricky. I guess James'll have to work on his career for anyother 15+ years to get there. James, I suggest you seek a new employer. B.
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch HedbergAn even better idea would be to look for new opportunities within your existing company. If it is too small, or doesn't have any other opportunities for whatever reason, consider switching to a company that does. The conventional wisdom these days seems to say that you don't want to stick around the same place for too long, but I say that is hogwash. If you find the right company, you can get plenty of variety, and a lot of employers value people who are up to taking on new challenges. "Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch HedbergBeing in the US and not the UK, my advice is limited, but here's my thoughts: James Simpson wrote: I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus That's a myth. Sure, the perception is a larger paycheck, but you're also paying higher taxes, your own health coverage, and the downtimes when there is no work makes consulting an often losing proposition. Being 23, you probably don't have a big "debt load"--house, family, etc., so the downtimes are probably easier to ride through. James Simpson wrote: I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Consulting jobs are not necessarily full time. Commuting to 2 or 3 different clients, sometimes in one day, is a real time waster. James Simpson wrote: Im 23 and confident about my abilities. Ability in consulting is more often being able to listen, communicate, and understand people's problems, rather than technical. You're also thrown into environments where other people have often screwed up, requiring that you contribute to an already broken system. I personally find that a lot more frustrating than "being bored". On the technical side, you may rapidly discover that you don't know as much as you think you do. I discover that every day with my clients. It's quite eye opening. James Simpson wrote: Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? That said, polish up your resume and give it a try! It can be very rewarding, very challenging, and consulting really broadens your experiences. My biggest mistake in my attempts at consulting have been in self-marketing. I get a nice contract, all is well, and then it either gets completed or cancelled, leaving me wondering where my next job is going to be. You have to view yourself as a business--always promoting yourself so you have another job lined up. You have to take care of your needs before your clients. Spend a certain amount of time each day marketing yourself. Contracts take a while to line up. Another consideration is, instead of becoming a consultant, do something creative off company time--create a product, join an open source project, etc. You get the benefit of a reliable income and the challenges and rewards of doing something "fun". Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
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Being in the US and not the UK, my advice is limited, but here's my thoughts: James Simpson wrote: I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus That's a myth. Sure, the perception is a larger paycheck, but you're also paying higher taxes, your own health coverage, and the downtimes when there is no work makes consulting an often losing proposition. Being 23, you probably don't have a big "debt load"--house, family, etc., so the downtimes are probably easier to ride through. James Simpson wrote: I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Consulting jobs are not necessarily full time. Commuting to 2 or 3 different clients, sometimes in one day, is a real time waster. James Simpson wrote: Im 23 and confident about my abilities. Ability in consulting is more often being able to listen, communicate, and understand people's problems, rather than technical. You're also thrown into environments where other people have often screwed up, requiring that you contribute to an already broken system. I personally find that a lot more frustrating than "being bored". On the technical side, you may rapidly discover that you don't know as much as you think you do. I discover that every day with my clients. It's quite eye opening. James Simpson wrote: Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? That said, polish up your resume and give it a try! It can be very rewarding, very challenging, and consulting really broadens your experiences. My biggest mistake in my attempts at consulting have been in self-marketing. I get a nice contract, all is well, and then it either gets completed or cancelled, leaving me wondering where my next job is going to be. You have to view yourself as a business--always promoting yourself so you have another job lined up. You have to take care of your needs before your clients. Spend a certain amount of time each day marketing yourself. Contracts take a while to line up. Another consideration is, instead of becoming a consultant, do something creative off company time--create a product, join an open source project, etc. You get the benefit of a reliable income and the challenges and rewards of doing something "fun". Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
James, my reaction to your post is rather similar to recent replies but I will add a few ideas of my own. Consulting will certainly broaden your perspectives and experience. But do you just want change? or do you want to do something really interesting (and difficult)? No offense intended, but perhaps you could look outside web-related development. Imagine a real high tech job at a place like NASA or something. No NASA in the UK but the BBC has got an R&D department with lots of interesting technical challlenges. Imagine your software not controlling a database but a mechanical robot or machine. Another great tech company is (at least was) Quantel in Newbury / Southampton. Just a few thoughts. Makes some people tick. Perhaps not u. Good Luck Adam _____________________________________ Action without thought is not action Action without emotion is not life
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch Hedberg -
James, my reaction to your post is rather similar to recent replies but I will add a few ideas of my own. Consulting will certainly broaden your perspectives and experience. But do you just want change? or do you want to do something really interesting (and difficult)? No offense intended, but perhaps you could look outside web-related development. Imagine a real high tech job at a place like NASA or something. No NASA in the UK but the BBC has got an R&D department with lots of interesting technical challlenges. Imagine your software not controlling a database but a mechanical robot or machine. Another great tech company is (at least was) Quantel in Newbury / Southampton. Just a few thoughts. Makes some people tick. Perhaps not u. Good Luck Adam _____________________________________ Action without thought is not action Action without emotion is not life
megaadam wrote: James hehe. Don't you hate it when you realize that you posted a reply to the wrong post? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch HedbergJames Simpson wrote: I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, Good, because IR35[^] has certainly put the kibosh on the large pay cheques. James Simpson wrote: Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? C++ and C# jobs[^] (Of course how many are geninue is always hard to determine with these kind of sites and the recruitment agencies used) Michael CP Blog [^]
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megaadam wrote: James hehe. Don't you hate it when you realize that you posted a reply to the wrong post? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
Marc Clifton wrote: megaadam wrote: James hehe. Don't you hate it when you realize that you posted a reply to the wrong post? I think I can live with it :cool: Adam _____________________________________ Action without thought is not action Action without emotion is not life
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch HedbergHi James, I left university 6 years ago and got a job working for a financial software house, mainly programming user interface type developments in MFC. Recently, like you, I have been getting bored with my job. I have been programming MFC for years and, with no scope for broadening my development skills, decided to leave. I have been learning about the .NET framework for some time and wanted a job or contract that would allow me to work on .NET stuff for at least 50% of the time. I managed to get myself a contracting job in London, developing part of a web portal for a news agency. The job sounds good to me. Of course, I won't know what it is really like until I start. I don't believe the contract market is dead. In fact, I think it is beginning to pick up. And you might not be caught by IR35. As has already been said, probably best to look at jobserve.com for rates. I have 6 years MFC, C++, SQL Server, Transact SQL, ASP, HTML and have been working non-commercially with the .NET Framework for 3 years. I negotiated £375 per day (based in London). I'm only guaranteed 3 months work at a time and get no employment benefits, but the pay is much better and I'm prepared to take the risk. Contrary to what others are saying, I would say go for it. Visit Riverside Internet[^] Visit Mike Puddephat Online[^]
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After 3 and a half years in the same job I have decided that contracting might be a worthwhile career move, all my full time development positions i have had held I got bored of after a year! I've not been seduced by a larger pay cheque, however that is a bonus, I simply need a bit of variety to my work, something sadly I have never got enough of when working in a permanent position. Making the move seems very difficult, I could commute to london or anywhere in surrey so I am around a decent area of work. Could anyone give me any pointers or ideas? My experience is 5+ Years commercial experience ranging from VC++/Oracle now through to SQL Server and .NET VB C#. Im 23 and confident about my abilities. What would be the rates for this sort of experience? Thanks - James Simpson James Simpson Web Developer imebgo@hotmail.com P S - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
Mitch Hedberg -
Contract markets dead in the UK, what little of contracting is left is mainly low grade stuff, if you want the booty and can be prepare to do low grade programming contacting is for you.