Not a JOTD
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I think the point is not that ADHD is hogwash but that it has been blown all out of proportion with ordinary kids being screwed up for the sake of pharmaceutical companies bottom lines. The companies prey on hypersensitive parents convincing them that a 1% deviation from Perfectly Normal is cause for a drug cocktail that could stun a horse into walking willing into a glue factory. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
That I will agree with. It is becoming a "catch all" way to place blame for bad behavior in some cases. However there ARE lots of kids that actually DO have it. I have a nephew who at age three is showing tell tale signs. The really unfortunate thing for us is that we took our son to doctors when he was five and they all, without exception, blew is off and said it was nothing. Had they actually listened to us we might have been able to get him under control at an early age. As it is, he is destined for a very difficult life. __________________________________________ a two cent stamp short of going postal.
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>"A good listener is one to whom you can tell a joke without reminding him of one of his own" That reminds me of this joke. A rabi, a priest and a horse walk into a bar... ;) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
How high was the bar??? :-D Steve
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What's it with all the jokes, lately? There's entire sites dedicated for that. Sure, the one or two a day was fine, but is there seriously nothing better to talk about? I mean, all of a sudden CP is running fast again na dpoeple are free to lounge again, but now much of the bandwidth is wasted on typically tasteless jokes. Seriously, is there nothing better to talk about? Here's a topic: Riddlin. It wasn't enough that 8 year olds were acting like 8 year olds and were put on Riddlin. They had to invent another disease - ADHD - to rake in more revenue. After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes, they started targeting an untapped pool of victim with Adult ADD. According to the site, http://www.adultadd.com[^], I have Adult ADD. I prefer to think of it as just being incredibly bored. I'm just glad I'm not in grade school now; I was completley unstimulated and unchallanged and would've probably be put on this drug (and started seeing little Christina Aguilera bugs). I was just incredibly bored. As the "Coffee Talk" lady would say, discuss amongst yourselves.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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No, this isn't a joke and it's not even funny. It also couldn't be farther from the truth. ADHD can be a very serious problem. I know - my stepson has it. He is now an adult with serious behavioral issues. He can't hold down a job and is currently a fugitive from the law. I don't even exactly know where he is right now other than he is not in the state I live in. Most of his adolesence was spent in one legal institution or another. In contrast, our other kid is a college graduate with a career, thankfully not in programming. Anyway, interesting topic. It is unfortunate that you are so clueless about it. __________________________________________ a two cent stamp short of going postal.
Society always wants something else to blame. Yes, something could be wrong but more often than not it's environmental. Maybe not in your step-son's case, but there's many other things that could be wrong. Maybe ADD/ADHD does exist but it's grossly over diagnosed. As someone else in this thread was leading to, there really is no "norm" for behavior. Everyone is different and will act different - and it's a good thing, too. The extremes are problems, but is a completely sullen child any better off than an overly hyperactive child? It's far too easy to just blame something else than to find the deeper problem; and in this day and age (with the baby-boomer children now having children of their own) it's most often a lack of discipline.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
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Heath Stewart wrote: After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
Problem is, behavior issues are typically set by age 5 or 6. By the time they realize the "problem" their child has, it's probably too late for actual behavioral changes. They can institute discipline (what they should've done in the first place) and the child may learn, but they may not. At this point in life it typically matters whether the child can learn from mistakes and through discipline (not necessarily the physical kind, which seems to turn parents off with such negative views).
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
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What's it with all the jokes, lately? There's entire sites dedicated for that. Sure, the one or two a day was fine, but is there seriously nothing better to talk about? I mean, all of a sudden CP is running fast again na dpoeple are free to lounge again, but now much of the bandwidth is wasted on typically tasteless jokes. Seriously, is there nothing better to talk about? Here's a topic: Riddlin. It wasn't enough that 8 year olds were acting like 8 year olds and were put on Riddlin. They had to invent another disease - ADHD - to rake in more revenue. After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes, they started targeting an untapped pool of victim with Adult ADD. According to the site, http://www.adultadd.com[^], I have Adult ADD. I prefer to think of it as just being incredibly bored. I'm just glad I'm not in grade school now; I was completley unstimulated and unchallanged and would've probably be put on this drug (and started seeing little Christina Aguilera bugs). I was just incredibly bored. As the "Coffee Talk" lady would say, discuss amongst yourselves.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: Here's a topic: Riddlin. It wasn't enough that 8 year olds were acting like 8 year olds and were put on Riddlin. They had to invent another disease - ADHD - to rake in more revenue. After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted Who cares? After all I can't tell them any jokes what with all the meds they're under... {either that's a 5 or a 1 but certainly nothing in the middle} EvilToasty
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
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Heath Stewart wrote: After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc I believe that if you spend a bit more time looking into this matter you'll find that it is more likely that it is the better educated parents that are involved in this tragedy. Think about it; which is more likely to be able to afford this medical tranquilization of their child. Certainly not the uneducated, and thus under-insured wage earner. Lack of a formal education is not a significat factor here. Best, Jerry
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
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Marc Clifton wrote: IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc I believe that if you spend a bit more time looking into this matter you'll find that it is more likely that it is the better educated parents that are involved in this tragedy. Think about it; which is more likely to be able to afford this medical tranquilization of their child. Certainly not the uneducated, and thus under-insured wage earner. Lack of a formal education is not a significat factor here. Best, Jerry
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
It's good to see someone else that's not afraid to say what others are most likely thinking but too afraid to say it. It's quite an obvious observation, really. Just one thing to keep in mind: intelligence is not indicative of success. I'm sure we can all site good examples of that. :)
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
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Society always wants something else to blame. Yes, something could be wrong but more often than not it's environmental. Maybe not in your step-son's case, but there's many other things that could be wrong. Maybe ADD/ADHD does exist but it's grossly over diagnosed. As someone else in this thread was leading to, there really is no "norm" for behavior. Everyone is different and will act different - and it's a good thing, too. The extremes are problems, but is a completely sullen child any better off than an overly hyperactive child? It's far too easy to just blame something else than to find the deeper problem; and in this day and age (with the baby-boomer children now having children of their own) it's most often a lack of discipline.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
I agree completely. The unfortunate result of this situation is that the "signal-to-noise" ratio gets distorted so badly that those who actually have a problem are lost in the shuffle. I guess this is actually symptomatic of far larger problems in our so-called society. In my opinion, the largest problem in american society is the propensity for NOT taking responsibility for one's own actions. This is exhibiting problems on a very large scale now and it is disgusting. It is being compounded by this country having far too many lawyers running around looking for someone to sue. My apologies for posting a soapbox-destined rant. __________________________________________ a two cent stamp short of going postal.
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What's it with all the jokes, lately? There's entire sites dedicated for that. Sure, the one or two a day was fine, but is there seriously nothing better to talk about? I mean, all of a sudden CP is running fast again na dpoeple are free to lounge again, but now much of the bandwidth is wasted on typically tasteless jokes. Seriously, is there nothing better to talk about? Here's a topic: Riddlin. It wasn't enough that 8 year olds were acting like 8 year olds and were put on Riddlin. They had to invent another disease - ADHD - to rake in more revenue. After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes, they started targeting an untapped pool of victim with Adult ADD. According to the site, http://www.adultadd.com[^], I have Adult ADD. I prefer to think of it as just being incredibly bored. I'm just glad I'm not in grade school now; I was completley unstimulated and unchallanged and would've probably be put on this drug (and started seeing little Christina Aguilera bugs). I was just incredibly bored. As the "Coffee Talk" lady would say, discuss amongst yourselves.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: Riddlin Sounds like an MS cleaner for linux PC's! Thats RITALIN (fyi)! Heath Stewart wrote: I prefer to think of it as just being incredibly bored. You are a bit clueless then. ADD is nothing to do with boredom, although that can be a side effect when unmanaged. ADD is very complex (and far beyond the scope of a simple post or website), and normally leads to various secondary psychological disorders if untreated. top secret xacc-ide 0.0.1
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I agree completely. The unfortunate result of this situation is that the "signal-to-noise" ratio gets distorted so badly that those who actually have a problem are lost in the shuffle. I guess this is actually symptomatic of far larger problems in our so-called society. In my opinion, the largest problem in american society is the propensity for NOT taking responsibility for one's own actions. This is exhibiting problems on a very large scale now and it is disgusting. It is being compounded by this country having far too many lawyers running around looking for someone to sue. My apologies for posting a soapbox-destined rant. __________________________________________ a two cent stamp short of going postal.
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Marc Clifton wrote: IMO, this is the crux of the matter. Uneducated parents that simply want a quick fix to a problem without looking at non-drug therapies that can solve this supposed problem. Marc I believe that if you spend a bit more time looking into this matter you'll find that it is more likely that it is the better educated parents that are involved in this tragedy. Think about it; which is more likely to be able to afford this medical tranquilization of their child. Certainly not the uneducated, and thus under-insured wage earner. Lack of a formal education is not a significat factor here. Best, Jerry
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
Toasty0 wrote: I believe that if you spend a bit more time looking into this matter you'll find that it is more likely that it is the better educated parents that are involved in this tragedy. Oh, I agree totally. But what some people call "educated" is what I actually call "uneducated". Maybe a better word would be "diseducated". However, your argument that this treatment is affordable only to higher income, and therefore better educated, parents, is unfounded. Many states now require that public schools test your child and require him/her to be on some psychotropic drug if diagnosed with ADD, and the school system / state will pay for it. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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Problem is, behavior issues are typically set by age 5 or 6. By the time they realize the "problem" their child has, it's probably too late for actual behavioral changes. They can institute discipline (what they should've done in the first place) and the child may learn, but they may not. At this point in life it typically matters whether the child can learn from mistakes and through discipline (not necessarily the physical kind, which seems to turn parents off with such negative views).
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: Problem is, behavior issues are typically set by age 5 or 6. By the time they realize the "problem" their child has, it's probably too late for actual behavioral changes. Given my experiences with seeing dramatic improvements in children twice that age, I would disagree. They can institute discipline (what they should've done in the first place) and the child may learn, but they may not. I've found that environment is as equally influential as discipline. I think you are suggesting similarly, that discipline refers to things such as establishing a consistent rhythm rather than the "discipline==punishment" meaning. It seems that discussing environment and rhythm/discipline in a child's life with the parents is tabboo because it encroaches upon the private/personal lifestyle of the parents, and heaven knows we can't let the school/state/church enter the home, now can we? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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What's it with all the jokes, lately? There's entire sites dedicated for that. Sure, the one or two a day was fine, but is there seriously nothing better to talk about? I mean, all of a sudden CP is running fast again na dpoeple are free to lounge again, but now much of the bandwidth is wasted on typically tasteless jokes. Seriously, is there nothing better to talk about? Here's a topic: Riddlin. It wasn't enough that 8 year olds were acting like 8 year olds and were put on Riddlin. They had to invent another disease - ADHD - to rake in more revenue. After exhausting the supply of kids who's parents wanted zombies in their homes, they started targeting an untapped pool of victim with Adult ADD. According to the site, http://www.adultadd.com[^], I have Adult ADD. I prefer to think of it as just being incredibly bored. I'm just glad I'm not in grade school now; I was completley unstimulated and unchallanged and would've probably be put on this drug (and started seeing little Christina Aguilera bugs). I was just incredibly bored. As the "Coffee Talk" lady would say, discuss amongst yourselves.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: Seriously, is there nothing better to talk about? I agree completely, BTW. The fact that your post got rated so low is a sad statement, IMO. Both your topics are important, I feel. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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Toasty0 wrote: I believe that if you spend a bit more time looking into this matter you'll find that it is more likely that it is the better educated parents that are involved in this tragedy. Oh, I agree totally. But what some people call "educated" is what I actually call "uneducated". Maybe a better word would be "diseducated". However, your argument that this treatment is affordable only to higher income, and therefore better educated, parents, is unfounded. Many states now require that public schools test your child and require him/her to be on some psychotropic drug if diagnosed with ADD, and the school system / state will pay for it. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Oh, I agree totally. But what some people call "educated" is what I actually call "uneducated". Maybe a better word would be "diseducated". Ok, if you say so. Marc Clifton wrote: However, your argument that this treatment is affordable only to higher income, and therefore better educated, parents, is unfounded. Many states now require that public schools test your child and require him/her to be on some psychotropic drug if diagnosed with ADD, and the school system / state will pay for it. I think you're reading more into my post than what I said. I said better educated parents are "more likely" to be involved due to the fact that their education makes them "more likely" to be employed in careers paths that lead to employer paid health insurance. I never said it was affordable to *only* higher income parents. Income was not an issue in your original post nor in my response. Education was. Please keep your eye on the ball or we will have to have you tested and medicated too. As for some states/education systems requiring testing and medicating I have no doubt. Heck, in a country where at least one sizable school system in the last 5 years banned Mark Twain anything is possible. Best, Jerry
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
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Heath Stewart wrote: Problem is, behavior issues are typically set by age 5 or 6. By the time they realize the "problem" their child has, it's probably too late for actual behavioral changes. Given my experiences with seeing dramatic improvements in children twice that age, I would disagree. They can institute discipline (what they should've done in the first place) and the child may learn, but they may not. I've found that environment is as equally influential as discipline. I think you are suggesting similarly, that discipline refers to things such as establishing a consistent rhythm rather than the "discipline==punishment" meaning. It seems that discussing environment and rhythm/discipline in a child's life with the parents is tabboo because it encroaches upon the private/personal lifestyle of the parents, and heaven knows we can't let the school/state/church enter the home, now can we? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: I've found that environment is as equally influential as discipline. I think you are suggesting similarly, that discipline refers to things such as establishing a consistent rhythm rather than the "discipline==punishment" meaning. Yes, that is what I mean. Like discipline taught in the martial arts. Respect, self control, responsibility, etc. - and punishment when necessary (maybe even something as simple as a swat on the butt - normally good-behaviing children might suffer more emotionally than physically from that brief interlude of their parents being upset with them).
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles