Here we go again - part 2
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Bad thing / good thing it's all relative. As others have already pointed out, it's bad for you if it takes your job away, good for you if it gives you a job. Stating that it is fundamentally one or the other is useless - except for those trying to stir up bad feelings towards [concepts | non-protectionist politicians | protectionist politicians | Indians | etc.].
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan...Actually, no, it is a bad thing for both. While it is a job of the underbidder, it will only last as long as there are no others that will bid lower. The person receiving the job will be making a relationship with a company that puts no loyalty on them as they did with the person who lost the job. It is just a matter of time. Marc was very correct in his posting that this is nothing more than a "Greed" driven beast that needs to be eleminated and not allowed to keep moving from country to country causing inflation in jobs to only kill those jobs off when the next low bidder comes along. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with "Recommendation" postings www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with Recent Poll List www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :)
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Overpopulation is a completely different issue... it is mostly due to the fact that people are living longer than they ever have... An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less, until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
Navin wrote: Overpopulation is a completely different issue... it is mostly due to the fact that people are living longer than they ever have... :confused: Overpopulation can lead to widespread unemployment, which leads to low wages. Low wages draws companies. The movement of jobs to other countries is therefore intrisically caught up in overpopulation problems. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
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I wasn't talking about their education and accomplishments; I was talking about their economy. Jeremy Falcon
Many people from India on this site have commented that their system of doing things is based on the British system. The British system is set up to make running a good economy easy (in other words there are checks and balances to make sure the system shows quickly when things are getting out of hand). Of course if they end up with some half-crazed nut like Mugabe at the helm then that isn't going to matter one jot. (Zimbabwe was ex-British colonial too). I noticed on Michael Palin's recent travel documentry when he passes from Pakistan to India there is a big sign as you enter India that says "Welcome to the world's most populous democracy" (or words to that effect)
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
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Okay, this might be more soapbox material - but no more so than the original outsourcing thread. It seems the world is moving toward a more global economy... which means countries like India will see their quiality of life improving as more jobs move into their country. I read a statistic once (can't remember where) that said that the poorest 5% in the US is richer than the richest 95% of the rest of the world. The US economy and people have always been resillient - we will find new ways of making money even if old jobs disappear. So, from a global perspective, why is outsourcing a bad thing? An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less, until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
When was the last time we were attacked by Hindu terrorists? Never. That is because India spends its efforts growing its economy. As other economies grow the labor pool becomes more competitive. At the same time, we are often told that Islamic terrorism is largely due to economic hopelessness in the MiddleEast. We can't have it both ways. As economies grow their labor will be more competitive. Competitive workers may not make us happy, but it is something we will have to support if we want to build the world's economy so that economic disparity is minimized and hence (theoritically) terrorism.
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Navin wrote: So, from a global perspective, why is outsourcing a bad thing? Hmmm. Because I'm also one of those whacko people that believes that corporate profits are not the only responsibility of a company. I personally think that businesses have a moral responsibility. And to me, this means looking out for your immediate neighbor first. But I realize this kind of thinking has gone the way of the Dodo bird, if it even ever existed. Look at the American industrial revolution. It was built and the economic wheels turned as a result of "outsourcing" work to children and women because they were cheaper and more complacent than men. Morality, concern for one's fellow human being, had absolutely no place in the cotton mills. It's pretty sad to see history repeat itself with outsourcing (and I don't mean just outsourcing programming jobs). The foundations of outsourcing are driven by greed. The workforce in that industry is also driven by greed--I freely admit that I try to get the highest dollar possible on my contracts so that I can have the best quality of life possible. The problem with my thinking is that it's all me, me, me, without regard for my neighbor, while at the same time I expect corporations to behave morally and to express concern for my neighbor which I, myself, do not. Uh. To get back to the question, outsourcing is bad because it doesn't address the problem of greed and the disparity between those who have and those who don't have. In fact it creates this disparity in two ways, by taking jobs away from people locally, and by giving those jobs to other people which promotes more disparity locally. Certainly places like India and Russia ask the top dollar possible themselves. The only way, and it's quite painful obviously, to break this cycle is for people to simply not be so damn greedy. So the issue of morality falls yet again on my shoulders, not on the corporation to which I would rather pass the morality buck. Well, that's my twisted view of the world. Quack, quack, or whatever sound Dodo's used to make. :-D Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
...and I had to vote you a 1. Warm and Fuzzy thinking like that does not get us anywhere. Marc Clifton wrote: outsourcing is bad because it doesn't address the problem of greed and the disparity between those who have and those who don't have. OK, so how do you address that disparity? If giving work to foreign workers is not enough, what is? It is ludicrous to speak of greed in the context of business. Corporations are not charitable organizations, they exist to make money. That formula has been the most liberating mechanism in human history. It has been the basis for modern economic achievments. I simple do not understand what those of you who present these kinds of arguments want. How much has to be 'given' to the 'needy' in order to no longer be considered greedy?
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LOL! I'm learning the ins-and-outs of real estate investing. Right now, I'm studying every there is to know about mortgages, leases, creative financing, etc. To make money at this, I'm going to have to know a lot of info and tricks of the trade, and that's what I plan to do. As long as we have people to want to live, we'll always have a need for real estate. And, it always appreciates in value. [edit] Ok, some times it doesn't, but you have to know your market. [/edit] On top of that, there's insurance to cover you butt in case the property is mutilated. So, all-in-all, it's a pretty safe way to make moola. After I gain enough experience, I may even write software tailored for real estate investors as well (AFAIK, they don't have anything like that yet). Jeremy Falcon
Excelent! I've been all but screaming this from the top of mole hills (we have no respectible elevation here in DFW). My wife and I began real estate investing a few years ago and are close to generating enough passive income for her to stop working (she's the real money maker in the family much more the me) Stick with it and stay calm. I've actualy began developing my own property management and evaluation software. Kind of fun. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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That's a fair question. At first I would probably be mad, disappointed, etc. But in the long run I would adapt and find new work. If I couldn't find work as a programmer I'd do one of the following: :bob: Find temporary work, perhaps in another field or doing something crazy, like devlivering newspapers.. assuming it pays better than unemployment benefits... while continuing to find a better job. :bob: Go back to school... one can spend a lot of time in school, racking up loans, but maintaining a good standard of living. :bob: Learn a new trade. Hopefully I'd be smart enough to see the writing on the wall *before* I lost my job. :bob: Marry somebody rich. :) An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less, until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
I like your 4th solution, the easy way out. :-D Weiye Chen Life is hard, yet we are made of flesh...
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When was the last time we were attacked by Hindu terrorists? Never. That is because India spends its efforts growing its economy. As other economies grow the labor pool becomes more competitive. At the same time, we are often told that Islamic terrorism is largely due to economic hopelessness in the MiddleEast. We can't have it both ways. As economies grow their labor will be more competitive. Competitive workers may not make us happy, but it is something we will have to support if we want to build the world's economy so that economic disparity is minimized and hence (theoritically) terrorism.
Stan Shannon wrote: India spends its efforts growing its economy. As other economies grow the labor pool becomes more competitive. At the same time, we are often told that Islamic terrorism is largely due to economic hopelessness in the MiddleEast. We can't have it both ways. As economies grow their labor will be more competitive. Competitive workers may not make us happy, but it is something we will have to support if we want to build the world's economy so that economic disparity is minimized and hence (theoritically) terrorism. Makes sense. :omg: I think I might actually be agreeing with you.
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
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Stan Shannon wrote: India spends its efforts growing its economy. As other economies grow the labor pool becomes more competitive. At the same time, we are often told that Islamic terrorism is largely due to economic hopelessness in the MiddleEast. We can't have it both ways. As economies grow their labor will be more competitive. Competitive workers may not make us happy, but it is something we will have to support if we want to build the world's economy so that economic disparity is minimized and hence (theoritically) terrorism. Makes sense. :omg: I think I might actually be agreeing with you.
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I think I might actually be agreeing with you. The problem is I'm not sure I agree with myself on that one. :~ I am willing to entertain the premise that poverty is a major contributing factor to Islamic Fundamentalism, but I strongly suspect that economics has less to do with the problem than the inherent nature of Islamic culture itself. But I stand ready to be proven wrong. Still, the growth of the international economy and the ultimately expansion of capitalistic forces should be a good thing for everyone in the long run, so I don't lose sleep over outsourcing. (Or course, I'm far enough along in my career that I could spend the rest of it working for wal-mart without too much concern)
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That's a fair question. At first I would probably be mad, disappointed, etc. But in the long run I would adapt and find new work. If I couldn't find work as a programmer I'd do one of the following: :bob: Find temporary work, perhaps in another field or doing something crazy, like devlivering newspapers.. assuming it pays better than unemployment benefits... while continuing to find a better job. :bob: Go back to school... one can spend a lot of time in school, racking up loans, but maintaining a good standard of living. :bob: Learn a new trade. Hopefully I'd be smart enough to see the writing on the wall *before* I lost my job. :bob: Marry somebody rich. :) An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less, until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
Come on !!! Its crazy to even digest your ideas ... How can u expect a white collor job fellow who has just lost his job to his indian counterparts , to go back to search a job in new areas ..? we need to be reasonable when we give away ideas to others . If at all my job is lost due to outsouring ( say ...to pakistan or Bangladesh ) I will get * angry * first . I dont think I will ever be able to reenergise myself if such things happen to me ...
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Stan Shannon wrote: India spends its efforts growing its economy. As other economies grow the labor pool becomes more competitive. At the same time, we are often told that Islamic terrorism is largely due to economic hopelessness in the MiddleEast. We can't have it both ways. As economies grow their labor will be more competitive. Competitive workers may not make us happy, but it is something we will have to support if we want to build the world's economy so that economic disparity is minimized and hence (theoritically) terrorism. Makes sense. :omg: I think I might actually be agreeing with you.
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
Come on !! Just Economic State of Middle east is not the reason behind Islamic terrorism. It has to do with the nature of islam itself . Why coz-- You dont see christian ,hindu or buddist terrorits bombing WTCs every where. And not all the economically backward ppl r bombing and killing people . only muslims . It has to do with a worngly preached and followed faith -today's islam .
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Come on !! Just Economic State of Middle east is not the reason behind Islamic terrorism. It has to do with the nature of islam itself . Why coz-- You dont see christian ,hindu or buddist terrorits bombing WTCs every where. And not all the economically backward ppl r bombing and killing people . only muslims . It has to do with a worngly preached and followed faith -today's islam .
Two words: NORTHERN IRELAND
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
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Two words: NORTHERN IRELAND
Vogon Building and Loan advise that your planet is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage secured upon it. Please remember that the force of gravity can go up as well as down.
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Excelent! I've been all but screaming this from the top of mole hills (we have no respectible elevation here in DFW). My wife and I began real estate investing a few years ago and are close to generating enough passive income for her to stop working (she's the real money maker in the family much more the me) Stick with it and stay calm. I've actualy began developing my own property management and evaluation software. Kind of fun. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Yup, it's exciting to take on a new venture. Thanks for the encouraging words. Jeremy Falcon