ATL or Visual Basic? Does it matter?
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All, I would like to have some opinions on my next project. I am building an n-tiered financial application with Visual Studio 6. I am not building it in .NET because of the hardware requirements, possible delays to the actual release of .NET and potential performance issues. I’d like everyone to put on his or her pointy-haired cap for this one. :) Does it really matter what tool I use to build the application? Will the customer notice the speed difference between ATL and Visual Basic? Is it worth increasing the development time for this speed increase? Will it be an effective marketing tool to say it is written with Visual C++ and ATL? I have heard some interesting thoughts on this. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments. Thanks, Rich
Random thoughts: 1) Putting on my pointy software engineering cap: your customers doubtless have some requirements for server load, i.e. transactions per second. Do some research (preferably coding) as to which language/framework/COM threading model meets the requirements. (Note: ATL gives more threading options.) Then present the coding time/perf measures to your customers to evaluate. "A bit of psychology: always give your client some options. Clients LIKE options. If you say, 'This will cost you $6000,' the client will probably respond 'I'd really like to spend $4000'. This puts you in the position of either accepting or going without a job. "But if you say, 'You have a choice: for $4000 I'll make it *walk* through the hoop. For $6000 I'll make it *jump* through the hoop. For $8000 I'll make it *dance* through the hoop waving flags, tossing confetti and singing 'Roll Out the Barrel.' "Most customers opt for jumping through the hoop." -- Leo Brodie, Thinking FORTH. 2) Do not discount the new ATL 7 in .NET. It makes ATL programming much easier, with the attribute-based programming. If you still want to use VS6, may I suggest looking at Comet? It does much the same thing (making your life simpler), but it uses VS6. http://www.lambdasoft.dk/comet CodeGuy The WTL newsgroup: 980 members and growing ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wtl
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All, I would like to have some opinions on my next project. I am building an n-tiered financial application with Visual Studio 6. I am not building it in .NET because of the hardware requirements, possible delays to the actual release of .NET and potential performance issues. I’d like everyone to put on his or her pointy-haired cap for this one. :) Does it really matter what tool I use to build the application? Will the customer notice the speed difference between ATL and Visual Basic? Is it worth increasing the development time for this speed increase? Will it be an effective marketing tool to say it is written with Visual C++ and ATL? I have heard some interesting thoughts on this. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments. Thanks, Rich
ATL code would be faster than VB code The clients would prolly be happy to hear C++/ATL rather than VB ATL tends to be quite easy once you get the hang of it - I am an ATL newbie... :-)...So I can say that I guess
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All, I would like to have some opinions on my next project. I am building an n-tiered financial application with Visual Studio 6. I am not building it in .NET because of the hardware requirements, possible delays to the actual release of .NET and potential performance issues. I’d like everyone to put on his or her pointy-haired cap for this one. :) Does it really matter what tool I use to build the application? Will the customer notice the speed difference between ATL and Visual Basic? Is it worth increasing the development time for this speed increase? Will it be an effective marketing tool to say it is written with Visual C++ and ATL? I have heard some interesting thoughts on this. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments. Thanks, Rich
So one thing some people agree on is that ATL is faster. Ok, fine. BUT - the extra development time (we're talking ATL instead of VB) costs real money. I can pretty much guarantee that with the *same* amount of dollars spent, I can write something in VB that'll outperform ATL. Its easy... with all the money saved on development costs (now we're talking VB instead of ATL) I can invest in hardware. Investing in hardware is much cheaper than spending a few extra months on a project. Andy Gaskell, MCSD
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So one thing some people agree on is that ATL is faster. Ok, fine. BUT - the extra development time (we're talking ATL instead of VB) costs real money. I can pretty much guarantee that with the *same* amount of dollars spent, I can write something in VB that'll outperform ATL. Its easy... with all the money saved on development costs (now we're talking VB instead of ATL) I can invest in hardware. Investing in hardware is much cheaper than spending a few extra months on a project. Andy Gaskell, MCSD
Since this is a financial application, I second your opinion; VB is a good tool for this. However, in many cases, C++ applications are faster to develop than VB applications, especially when it comes to really complex projects. Of course, it also depends on the skills of developers, but I've noticed that for complex projects C++ can save your development time. I vote pro drink :beer:
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Since this is a financial application, I second your opinion; VB is a good tool for this. However, in many cases, C++ applications are faster to develop than VB applications, especially when it comes to really complex projects. Of course, it also depends on the skills of developers, but I've noticed that for complex projects C++ can save your development time. I vote pro drink :beer:
What is so special about "financial applications" that they deserve to be written in VB ? ???? -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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What is so special about "financial applications" that they deserve to be written in VB ? ???? -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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What is so special about "financial applications" that they deserve to be written in VB ? ???? -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
Well, I imagine that by financial applications it means: database-centric applications with the standard data entry/viewing screens. To access the database these apps typically go with ADO and there's nothing easier than VB for doing that, IMHO. Regards, Alvaro
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Financial Applications mostly deal with the databases: updating, reading, making reports. For that stuff, VB is easier to use than C++: you have wizards like Query Designer and Database Designer. I vote pro drink :beer:
Man, you pulled that one outa yer sphincter didn't you. I spent 12 years working on financial applications, and not one time did the word "database" rear it's ugly head. besides that, VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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Well, I imagine that by financial applications it means: database-centric applications with the standard data entry/viewing screens. To access the database these apps typically go with ADO and there's nothing easier than VB for doing that, IMHO. Regards, Alvaro
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Since this is a financial application, I second your opinion; VB is a good tool for this. However, in many cases, C++ applications are faster to develop than VB applications, especially when it comes to really complex projects. Of course, it also depends on the skills of developers, but I've noticed that for complex projects C++ can save your development time. I vote pro drink :beer:
I second your opinion. The complexity of the project AND the skills of the developers are very important factors. Here's how I would decide:
Developers/Complexity | High | Moderate | Low
Know C++ only | Use C++ | Use C++ or learn VB | Learn VB
Know VB only | Get C++ guys | Use VB | Use VB
Know C++ and VB | Use C++ | Use VB | Use VB
Regards, Alvaro
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Man, you pulled that one outa yer sphincter didn't you. I spent 12 years working on financial applications, and not one time did the word "database" rear it's ugly head. besides that, VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
I spent 12 years working on financial applications, and not one time did the word "database" rear it's ugly head Unlike you, I was involved in making only one financial application (4 months). It was all about nice forms, reports, very basic math operations (+-*/), and database transactions. If we used C++ on this, it would have taken us at least a year. VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: What are you talking about? I vote pro drink :beer:
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So one thing some people agree on is that ATL is faster. Ok, fine. BUT - the extra development time (we're talking ATL instead of VB) costs real money. I can pretty much guarantee that with the *same* amount of dollars spent, I can write something in VB that'll outperform ATL. Its easy... with all the money saved on development costs (now we're talking VB instead of ATL) I can invest in hardware. Investing in hardware is much cheaper than spending a few extra months on a project. Andy Gaskell, MCSD
Do what I do for situations like this. Create the front end in VB, and design the back end processing routines in C++ (ATL or not). Create a DLL that you can call from VB and you should notice better than straight VB performance (if you design the DLL correctly :)). Brigg Thorp Software Engineer Timex Corporation
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I spent 12 years working on financial applications, and not one time did the word "database" rear it's ugly head Unlike you, I was involved in making only one financial application (4 months). It was all about nice forms, reports, very basic math operations (+-*/), and database transactions. If we used C++ on this, it would have taken us at least a year. VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: What are you talking about? I vote pro drink :beer:
>> VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle > > What are you talking about? I was trying to be funny. Let me start with something simpler: There was this traveling salesman. He was driving down a country road when without warning (and for no apparent reason), his car sputter to a stop. He coast to the side of the road, go out and opened the hood, looking for something he was sure he wouldn't recognize. "It's the carbeurator", a voice behind him said. He turned, only to see a horse grazing by the fence. Seeing nobody, he turned back to the car, again inspecting the top of the engine for any tell-tale sign of what might be wrong. He started jiggling wires, and mysterious hosts, and electrical connections. "I told you - it's the carbeurator". He spun around again. Again, only the horse was to be seen, but this time, the horse was looking directly at him. "Did you say something?", the salesman asked. "Yep. It's the carbeurator", the horse replied. The salesman couldn't believe his ears. He saw a car approaching off in the distance and he began running toward it, waving his arms wildly. The salesman was completely breathless by the time the old man in the beatup pickup truck stopped next to him. "My car broke down over there and I was trying to figure out what was wrong, when this horse started talking to me!" "Show me", the old man in the truck said. When they got back to the saleman's car, the old man pointed out the horse grazing by the fence and asked, "Is that the horse that you say talked to ya?" "Yeah, that's the one!", the salesman wheazed. "What'd he say?" "He said 'It's the carbeurator'", responded the salesman. "That's funny", said the old man. "I didn't think he knew anything about cars." "...the staggering layers of obcenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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You and Menanja must have popped from the same anal cavity... VB? BWA HA HA HA HA! To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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Man, you pulled that one outa yer sphincter didn't you. I spent 12 years working on financial applications, and not one time did the word "database" rear it's ugly head. besides that, VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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I second your opinion. The complexity of the project AND the skills of the developers are very important factors. Here's how I would decide:
Developers/Complexity | High | Moderate | Low
Know C++ only | Use C++ | Use C++ or learn VB | Learn VB
Know VB only | Get C++ guys | Use VB | Use VB
Know C++ and VB | Use C++ | Use VB | Use VB
Regards, Alvaro
Someone posted a this link a while back: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$408 Al When a man goes on a date he wonders if he is going to get lucky. A woman already knows - Frederick Ryder
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Yeah, well, it's an awful big cavity... how many VB developers are there? I hate VB's syntax, but for mundane DB access stuff using ADO, it's a great tool. Regards, Alvaro
> Yeah, well, it's an awful big cavity... How do you decide who comes out first? I guess if there was a long line, the last guy would be getting the shitty end of that stick... "...the staggering layers of obcenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Someone posted a this link a while back: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$408 Al When a man goes on a date he wonders if he is going to get lucky. A woman already knows - Frederick Ryder
Thanks for the link. :) It echoes my sentiments almost exactly. Regards, Alvaro
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>> VB is no more suited to database work than Oracle > > What are you talking about? I was trying to be funny. Let me start with something simpler: There was this traveling salesman. He was driving down a country road when without warning (and for no apparent reason), his car sputter to a stop. He coast to the side of the road, go out and opened the hood, looking for something he was sure he wouldn't recognize. "It's the carbeurator", a voice behind him said. He turned, only to see a horse grazing by the fence. Seeing nobody, he turned back to the car, again inspecting the top of the engine for any tell-tale sign of what might be wrong. He started jiggling wires, and mysterious hosts, and electrical connections. "I told you - it's the carbeurator". He spun around again. Again, only the horse was to be seen, but this time, the horse was looking directly at him. "Did you say something?", the salesman asked. "Yep. It's the carbeurator", the horse replied. The salesman couldn't believe his ears. He saw a car approaching off in the distance and he began running toward it, waving his arms wildly. The salesman was completely breathless by the time the old man in the beatup pickup truck stopped next to him. "My car broke down over there and I was trying to figure out what was wrong, when this horse started talking to me!" "Show me", the old man in the truck said. When they got back to the saleman's car, the old man pointed out the horse grazing by the fence and asked, "Is that the horse that you say talked to ya?" "Yeah, that's the one!", the salesman wheazed. "What'd he say?" "He said 'It's the carbeurator'", responded the salesman. "That's funny", said the old man. "I didn't think he knew anything about cars." "...the staggering layers of obcenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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All, I would like to have some opinions on my next project. I am building an n-tiered financial application with Visual Studio 6. I am not building it in .NET because of the hardware requirements, possible delays to the actual release of .NET and potential performance issues. I’d like everyone to put on his or her pointy-haired cap for this one. :) Does it really matter what tool I use to build the application? Will the customer notice the speed difference between ATL and Visual Basic? Is it worth increasing the development time for this speed increase? Will it be an effective marketing tool to say it is written with Visual C++ and ATL? I have heard some interesting thoughts on this. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments. Thanks, Rich
Three reasons to use ATL 1/ It means you can do the GUI in VB if you absolutely must. 2/ You'll be able to hold your head up at parties when people ask what you used instead of muttering it and hoping no-one hears 3/ You'll end up with a reusable cross language component. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
