programming language change
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Thanks, but no - I think I'm done with them. Pascal was a great language - far better than any modern one for the work I did then - but if I need it I can always switch to Delphi. ProLog was just plain weird. Fun, but weird. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Roger Wright wrote: ProLog was just plain weird. Fun, but weird. (((at)least(it was)(way better)than((the)(only(alternative))(at that(time))(LISP)) I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I wonder if either language package will run on a modern Windows system - the last time I tried them was on a Win95 system. They worked fine there, but since then Windows has changed, and the pressure to maintain DOS compatibility is gone. I suspect that, at the least, the Borland GDI will fail, as it directly accessed video hardware (IIRC) to draw to the screen. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Recently, just for fun, I tried a few old packages in both Windows 2000 and Windows XP, and I can say that: 1. Windows 2000 don't like them. 2. I was quite surprised about how compatible Windows XP is! Ran most of the packages. Even SideKick ran! But you can always install Win3.1 or DOS 6.0 on a Virtual Machine. I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
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yep I know, in 10 or 20 years, we will wonder why we made junk like CD's, USB sticks etc ;-) No hurries, no worries.
V. wrote: why we made junk like CD's Ever since I bought a DVD-burner I think this way... :) I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Daniel Turini wrote: What happened to all those programmers? We got old.:doh: But I still have Turbo Prolog and Turbo Pascal 5.5 - anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Paradox, Quattro Pro, lotsa goodies here. I'm thinking of chucking them all out next week, so I'll be planning a wake for them sometime soon. Better yet, I have the Manuals - does anyone else remember manuals? You know, printed thingies that came with the product and explained how to work it... Before Microsoft killed the concept by stuffing everything into Help that isn't helpful and online Knowledge Bases that are devoid of relevant knowledge. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Roger Wright wrote: We got old. Just middle aged Roger. We have lots of time left! Roger Wright wrote: anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Does it have to work? Sitting in the back of the desk drawer for ? years does what. Sold all of the disks at a garage sale for 5 cents each some time back. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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Roger Wright wrote: ProLog was just plain weird. Fun, but weird. (((at)least(it was)(way better)than((the)(only(alternative))(at that(time))(LISP)) I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
:laugh::laugh::laugh: I never tried LISP - I think I looked for an affordable version but never found one. ProLog's predicate logic basis was just too different from my thinking to ever grasp completely. If I'd had a little kid around to start teaching the language, the kid might one day master it, but my thought patterns were already too canalized to change.:sigh: "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
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Roger Wright wrote: anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Not anymore, but I had to install an old laptop for my sister not so long ago and I had to create a boot disk. The noise :omg:. Luckily the floppies aren't standard anymore. That was real junk if you come to think of it. During my studies we had to work with them (homework and stuff) and they were always broken (or the floppy or the drive or both :doh:). the time I needed the backup of my floppies, my disk was already broken or corrupted :((. My dad had one with 5"25. When you started the cpu you had to insert a boot floppy and close the lock. It was like you had to take of with an airplane or something :laugh:. No hurries, no worries.
V. wrote: they were always broken (or the floppy or the drive or both :doh. It's not the drives. All my old floppies work fine even 10-15 years or so. Of course if i buy a new pack of floppies, 4 out of 10 will fail, and 3 more will start to currupt sort after. All flopies in the market are exremly cheap but they lack any magnetic material. I afraid that soon the same will happend with CDs/DVDs if it's not allready started.
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Roger Wright wrote: We got old. Just middle aged Roger. We have lots of time left! Roger Wright wrote: anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Does it have to work? Sitting in the back of the desk drawer for ? years does what. Sold all of the disks at a garage sale for 5 cents each some time back. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: We have lots of time left! Indeed! I'm in better shape now than I was at 30, mentally and physically - lots of miles left.:-D I ended up throwing away most of my old floppies - it hurt like parting with old friends, but it was time to let them go.:(( "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
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Daniel Turini wrote: What happened to all those programmers? We got old.:doh: But I still have Turbo Prolog and Turbo Pascal 5.5 - anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Paradox, Quattro Pro, lotsa goodies here. I'm thinking of chucking them all out next week, so I'll be planning a wake for them sometime soon. Better yet, I have the Manuals - does anyone else remember manuals? You know, printed thingies that came with the product and explained how to work it... Before Microsoft killed the concept by stuffing everything into Help that isn't helpful and online Knowledge Bases that are devoid of relevant knowledge. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Roger Wright wrote: But I still have Turbo Prolog and Turbo Pascal 5.5 - anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Paradox, Quattro Pro, lotsa goodies here. I'm thinking of chucking them all out next week, so I'll be planning a wake for them sometime soon. I put all that stuff in the trash a few years ago. About 3 weeks ago, the same happened to my genuine, boxed OS/2 Warp for Windows 3.1. I must admit it has been hard to do so, however! OS/2 was so ELITE back in da daze! :laugh:
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V. wrote: they were always broken (or the floppy or the drive or both :doh. It's not the drives. All my old floppies work fine even 10-15 years or so. Of course if i buy a new pack of floppies, 4 out of 10 will fail, and 3 more will start to currupt sort after. All flopies in the market are exremly cheap but they lack any magnetic material. I afraid that soon the same will happend with CDs/DVDs if it's not allready started.
Kastellanos Nikos wrote: I afraid that soon the same will happend with CDs/DVDs if it's not allready started. The last DVD's cost me under 15 cents US each. I do wonder? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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I've got a box marked "Borland Turbo C 3.0 for DOS" on my bookshelf. It includes both 3.5 and 5 1/4" floppy discs. All in Like New Condition. (Almost new, only theres some dust on the box) Bidding shall start at $ 1.00 US. Good Luck
My Bid : $1.02 Einstein: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." My Articles
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Daniel Turini wrote: What happened to all those programmers? We got old.:doh: But I still have Turbo Prolog and Turbo Pascal 5.5 - anyone got a 5-1/4" floppy drive? Paradox, Quattro Pro, lotsa goodies here. I'm thinking of chucking them all out next week, so I'll be planning a wake for them sometime soon. Better yet, I have the Manuals - does anyone else remember manuals? You know, printed thingies that came with the product and explained how to work it... Before Microsoft killed the concept by stuffing everything into Help that isn't helpful and online Knowledge Bases that are devoid of relevant knowledge. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Roger Wright wrote: does anyone else remember manuals? Oh, those thingies the user never reads, cannot search, and destroy forests? I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Kastellanos Nikos wrote: I afraid that soon the same will happend with CDs/DVDs if it's not allready started. The last DVD's cost me under 15 cents US each. I do wonder? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: The last DVD's cost me under 15 cents US each. I do wonder? The think is, DVDs and CDs are much cheaper to made than floppies. Now i don't know how expensive are the chemicals in a DVD layer versus the machetic materials in the floppies, but sure a floppy disk looks a lot more complicate to made while DVD are just 3-4 layers of components. So, i guess DVDs can be a lot cheaper than floppies but prieces keep falling which is good but makes me wanter if the quality is falling as well.. :~
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: I never tried LISP - I think I looked for an affordable version but never found one. ProLog's predicate logic basis was just too different from my thinking to ever grasp completely. If I'd had a little kid around to start teaching the language, the kid might one day master it, but my thought patterns were already too canalized to change.:sigh: "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
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V. wrote: That was real junk if you come to think of it :laugh::laugh::laugh: Floppies were a miracle of modern technology in their day! The first ones were 8", not 5-1/4", and had a capacity of about 360K IIRC. Before that we had to depend on audio cassette tapes, punched cards, and paper tape punched and read by Teletype machines. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Roger Wright wrote: audio cassette tapes, punched cards, and paper tape punched and read by Teletype machines Been there, did all of those. I even helped a guy in my data structures class, who was blind, do a 'floor sort*' one time. * floor sort: Take a box of up to 2000 punched cards, spill them on the floor. Pick them up and put them back in their original order. Fortunately the guy I was helping used sequence numbers on his cards.
Software Zen:
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V. wrote: That was real junk if you come to think of it :laugh::laugh::laugh: Floppies were a miracle of modern technology in their day! The first ones were 8", not 5-1/4", and had a capacity of about 360K IIRC. Before that we had to depend on audio cassette tapes, punched cards, and paper tape punched and read by Teletype machines. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley
Try 80k: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk[^] Your mention of punch cards reminded me of when my college got new punch machines with an LCD that let you enter the card data first, then hit a key to actually punch it. (The real irony is that the Apple IIs I was using on my own time were arguably more capable that the computer that processed our batch jobs and it was easier to program. [Still don't know what system did our batch jobs; I do know it went down constantly.]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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You should really take a look at Python[^] It's a beautifully designed language with an emphasis on high level, modular interfaces. It's cross-platform and along with the Twisted[^] networking framework will literally save you months in prototyping client/server apps ( here a quick chat server implementation.[^] Stani's Python Editor[^] or Pydev[^] (an Eclipse Python plug-in) are good starting points regarding free IDE's. Python is an elegant, dense lanaguage and will usually allow you to develop an application with a tenth of the lines of code that a standard C++ app would require. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
Yeah, Python is a great language for a business to use; it's so easy to hire all those excess Python programmers out there. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Someone posted this before: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
:suss: Pssst. You see that little light on your monitor? That's actually a government installed spy camera. Smile and wave to big brother!
Except that ranking doesn't show what people think it shows. All it shows is scarcity of a skill, not actually usage of those skills. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Gabriel Gibaut wrote: Does anyone knows of a site with statistics about programming languages in terms of number of developers, number of projects that use it, etc. Why? Is this a popularity contest? If you want to know how is the job market, just enter any job offer site and take a look at the offers. Gabriel Gibaut wrote: Borland Oh, Borland is so 90's. I remember, now, that cool company that made all those cool tools in the good old DOS days. Turbo Pascal 5.5, Turbo C 2.0, Turbo C++, and so on. They even got Turbo Prolog! What happened to all those programmers? :) I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: What happened to all those programmers? I just got old and moved to M$ :-) some of their products are still way better than anything out on the market today, anyone remembers TurboDebugger?. but they made a whole mess out of everything they touched after 1990. I think the only good product they had since then was Delphi. Too bad it was based on Pascal instead of a real programming language and they handled the marketing in such a poor fashion. OGR