Life after death. (just for fun)
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Paul Watson wrote: Since we are not even sure how many dimensions there are or if multiple universes exist Hmm I think Chris or John (+1000000 other CPians with physics degree I forgot to mention) could elaborate on this... Paul Watson wrote: That whole thing of "Heaven is up and Hell is down" is rot. hmm hell must be exactly in the middle of Earth. Because it is "down" both for us and aussies :) Paul Watson wrote: BTW I don't believe in either or any afterlife for that matter. OK, for a while I was worried that you belive in hell in your left kidney :-D Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyNo, no, it is in JWood's left kidney, not mine. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: If there's life after death, then why do we die? All religions more or less tell us how to live our life, and what will happen after we die. But none, that I'm aware of, tells us why we have to die.
In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. 01 Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power 02 He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-Ayah 1-2 from AL-MULK (THE SOVEREIGNTY) Quran Translation Intro DiscoverSo basically, death is the end of the exam? :~ -- Look straight into the light!
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: But none, that I'm aware of, tells us why we have to die. well it is your great great great great....great great great grandma's fault. "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." answer me, why had we born in the first place?
It still doesn't explain the purpose of death. Obvously, according to the bible, God had a purpose for our lives, otherwise he wouldn't have created Adam. What's the purpose of the off state, when in fact the off state isn't off..? You either go to heaven or hell - both options entail life after death, just not as we know it in our corporeal world. I would only buy a life after death argument, only if it also argued life before birth. That life itself is an infinite process, without a begining nor end, and our corporeal lives are just "blips" on that life line. Infinite life, as in no begining nor end, or finite life with a well defined begining and end, are the only two models I find elegant. Surely, a divine being such as a god would not have created such an asymmetric and ugly process called life, as told in religious texts. Life, and afterlife, as told by the bible and the quoran, is badly designed IMO. I'm done now. You may proceed throwing stones at me now. :) -- Look straight into the light!
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Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: If this were the case would you live your life differently? No, because I already came to that conclusion for myself.
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Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? No, as I know there is no life after death or God bullshit so my belief structure (or lack there of) doesn't change. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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No, no, it is in JWood's left kidney, not mine. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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So basically, death is the end of the exam? :~ -- Look straight into the light!
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I am curious why a belief in a higher-power makes someone act better than without it? If you believe in an accounting for every action that you have done, then it tends to shape your actions. The stronger the belief the more influence on behaviour. Ofcourse there are different levels, so a person might say they believe something but they don't really take it to heart, then there are others who have a stronger belief and before any action might think what the ramifications of their actions are. Quran Translation Intro Discover
Maybe the more relevant question is just why the morals handed down by the higher being are accepted as "better"? I could argue that a lot of the rules foisted by religions are just plain silly and my common sense approach to social interactions is much better. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
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joshfl wrote: Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? No, as I know there is no life after death or God bullshit so my belief structure (or lack there of) doesn't change. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Imagine for a moment that we were able as humans to conclude that there was no life after death. (ie, no divine judgement, etc. im talking /dev/null here) If this were the case would you live your life differently? I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
While I don't believe in another life for me after my death, because others will live here on Earth after me, I try to minimise my impact on it so that there will be something good of it left for them to enjoy. Not following a religion doesn't absolve you of responsibility for the effect of your actions on future generations. Wasn't it a native American who said something along the lines of: "We don't only inherit the Earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children."?
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bugDanny wrote: Doesn't your belief in a higher power make you act better than you would without it? I am curious why a belief in a higher-power makes someone act better than without it? There are examples of people who have acted shamefully citing that a "higher power" told them it was right.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: There are examples of people who have acted shamefully citing that a "higher power" told them it was right. Yeah, I guess you're right, but I was referring to the non-psychos whose belief in a higher power makes them feel accountable to someone other than themselves. Although there are many who claim to be Christian, or whatever religion, and then go out and act like they don't think anyone's watching them. I was referring to those that believe in a higher power and so try to conform their lives in a way that would render a good judgement. Without that, we have selfishness, because who else are we then accountable to but ourselves, and that leads us nowhere. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Maybe the more relevant question is just why the morals handed down by the higher being are accepted as "better"? I could argue that a lot of the rules foisted by religions are just plain silly and my common sense approach to social interactions is much better. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
Tim Craig wrote: I could argue that a lot of the rules foisted by religions are just plain silly Agreed. But are we talking about religions that put forth things apart from the Bible? There are many, many religions that claim to follow the Bible, but really impose standards and traditions of their own making. The moral guidelines and principles set forth in the Bible are perfect. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Well can I come down on you for your tagline instead? bugDanny wrote: The stupidity of others amazes me! It's kind of arrogant, you know...puts me in mind of Dorothy Parker's response to some sycophant who tried to impress her by saying "I can't bear fools!" She replied: "How odd - your mother obviously could!" Doesn't your Font of All Wisdom say something about stones and glass houses...? Emotional Fred
Fred_Smith wrote: Well can I come down on you for your tagline instead? bugDanny wrote: The stupidity of others amazes me! It's kind of arrogant I agree. It is kind of arrogant. That's why it was meant as a joke. :laugh: Apparently you didn't get it. :laugh: I like the Dorothy Parker quote though. Fred_Smith wrote: Doesn't your Font of All Wisdom say something about stones and glass houses...? I don't know what you're talking about. Font of All Wisdom? Stones and glass houses? Must be a different religion than the one I belong to. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: Out of curiousity, do you not believe in God because you don't believe in life after death? I actually believe in God, but not in life after death. Don't believe in God or life after death. Can't see him, can't touch and non of this speaking in tongues voices in the head shit either. He just don't exist and is an artificial crutch for the weak minded. What sort of cock sucker would create creatures in his own image and then piss on them for eternity cause a couple didn't meet is fucked up requirements. Even if I buy into this everyone's free to fuck up and pay in the after life bullshit, why do rape and pedophile victims have to suffer their entire life whiile the perpetrators cop their shit from God after they die. A loving and compassionate God wouldn't allow people to suffer barbaric shit from someone else like happens all the time. Where's his fucking pillar of salt now? Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: Out of curiousity, do you not believe in God because you don't believe in life after death? I actually believe in God, but not in life after death. Don't believe in God or life after death. Can't see him, can't touch and non of this speaking in tongues voices in the head shit either. He just don't exist and is an artificial crutch for the weak minded. What sort of cock sucker would create creatures in his own image and then piss on them for eternity cause a couple didn't meet is fucked up requirements. Even if I buy into this everyone's free to fuck up and pay in the after life bullshit, why do rape and pedophile victims have to suffer their entire life whiile the perpetrators cop their shit from God after they die. A loving and compassionate God wouldn't allow people to suffer barbaric shit from someone else like happens all the time. Where's his fucking pillar of salt now? Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Put that way, of course it's difficult to believe in God. But I'm not talking about God in the judgement sense. I'm talking about God as a higher power. It's possible (definite for me :) ) that there is a God and s/he's not actually judging us for our actions but is studying us to see how far we'll evolve. In which case, everything you said is not God's fault, but our own. Second, when people talk about God, they always think of the religion definition of God and not the Supreme Being concept of him/her. For all we know, the Universe is alive (God) and is taking notes on us. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: There are examples of people who have acted shamefully citing that a "higher power" told them it was right. Yeah, I guess you're right, but I was referring to the non-psychos whose belief in a higher power makes them feel accountable to someone other than themselves. Although there are many who claim to be Christian, or whatever religion, and then go out and act like they don't think anyone's watching them. I was referring to those that believe in a higher power and so try to conform their lives in a way that would render a good judgement. Without that, we have selfishness, because who else are we then accountable to but ourselves, and that leads us nowhere. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
bugDanny wrote: I was referring to those that believe in a higher power and so try to conform their lives in a way that would render a good judgement. Like Tony Blair and George W. Bush? bugDanny wrote: who else are we then accountable to but ourselves What about the law?
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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bugDanny wrote: I was referring to those that believe in a higher power and so try to conform their lives in a way that would render a good judgement. Like Tony Blair and George W. Bush? bugDanny wrote: who else are we then accountable to but ourselves What about the law?
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Like Tony Blair and George W. Bush? Um, no. I'm not gonna go there. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: who else are we then accountable to but ourselves What about the law? So you only hold yourself accountable to the law? By that decree, you're not accountable unless you get caught. How many terrible crimes have been committed with that philosophy? You're still not holding yourself accountable. For example, if one were accountable only to the law, then one would speed, drive recklessly, etc, etc, as long as the police weren't around, but as soon as no law enforcement can see you, watch out! However, if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards no matter what humans are around. And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest. How many criminals are being let on the loose through our legal system? I'd have to disagree with you on that point. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Like Tony Blair and George W. Bush? Um, no. I'm not gonna go there. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: who else are we then accountable to but ourselves What about the law? So you only hold yourself accountable to the law? By that decree, you're not accountable unless you get caught. How many terrible crimes have been committed with that philosophy? You're still not holding yourself accountable. For example, if one were accountable only to the law, then one would speed, drive recklessly, etc, etc, as long as the police weren't around, but as soon as no law enforcement can see you, watch out! However, if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards no matter what humans are around. And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest. How many criminals are being let on the loose through our legal system? I'd have to disagree with you on that point. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
bugDanny wrote: So you only hold yourself accountable to the law? Well, that is the thing that ensures I don't speed or drive recklessly - that, and the fact that I would like to stay alive. bugDanny wrote: How many terrible crimes have been committed with that philosophy? I would guess none. Because the people who committed these terrible crimes are not holding themselves accountable to the law. They have to be caught first. bugDanny wrote: if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards Yup. I always try to do my best because I do not want to disappoint my parents. bugDanny wrote: And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest But, it is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. bugDanny wrote: How many criminals are being let on the loose through our legal system? Well, that depends. If they are put in the custody of "Reliance" quite a lot because they are a completely useless custodial company. bugDanny wrote: I'd have to disagree with you on that point. Fair enough. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion. bugDanny wrote: The stupidity of others amazes me! Yup. That is absolutely true. Other people are truely stupid. :-D
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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bugDanny wrote: So you only hold yourself accountable to the law? Well, that is the thing that ensures I don't speed or drive recklessly - that, and the fact that I would like to stay alive. bugDanny wrote: How many terrible crimes have been committed with that philosophy? I would guess none. Because the people who committed these terrible crimes are not holding themselves accountable to the law. They have to be caught first. bugDanny wrote: if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards Yup. I always try to do my best because I do not want to disappoint my parents. bugDanny wrote: And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest But, it is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. bugDanny wrote: How many criminals are being let on the loose through our legal system? Well, that depends. If they are put in the custody of "Reliance" quite a lot because they are a completely useless custodial company. bugDanny wrote: I'd have to disagree with you on that point. Fair enough. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion. bugDanny wrote: The stupidity of others amazes me! Yup. That is absolutely true. Other people are truely stupid. :-D
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that is the thing that ensures I don't speed or drive recklessly - that, and the fact that I would like to stay alive. I can think of many situations where, for example, people will drive in ways that, while technically breaking the law, they believe there's no danger to their lives. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I would guess none. Because the people who committed these terrible crimes are not holding themselves accountable to the law. They are living by your philosophy that if we are only accountable to the law, then if the law doesn't see it, it's all right. When they're caught, they are, supposedly, held accountable to the law.... if they are caught. [Edit] I forgot to add, that even if people really do 'hold themselves accountable to the law', the law doesn't really govern how we act and treat other people in our personal lives. I mean, I could totally ignore my parents, strangers needing help, etc., for example, and what would the law do to me? But if we hold ourselves to higher standards, because we're accountable, then we would treat everyone we meet with love and respect. [/Edit] Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards Yup. I always try to do my best because I do not want to disappoint my parents. Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest But, it is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. Actually, if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that depends. If they are put in the custody of "Reliance" quite a lot because they are a completely useless custodial company. I have no idea what you are talking about. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Yup. That is absolutely true. Other people are truely stupid. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Danny The stupidity of others amazes me! -- modified at 14:30 Monday 3rd October, 2005