Aero gas
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I'll worry about what it looks like after it's proven that it actually works. If recent trends in MS's product releases are any indication, they pay more attention to appearances than functionality. I'll stick with XP for a while. Marc Pensieve
Saw a really interesting article, from a link here baout the changes to the kernel. 50 minute talk. Well worth it though. An awful lot going on interally, and a fairly honest talk about exitsting failings. http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=148820[^]
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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The hardware acceleration or the 3D? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
The hardware acceleration or the 3D?
Well, to be honest, Windows was hardware accelerated in 2D. A combination of processor extensions and 2D acceleration on graphics cards did accelerate Windows operation. One of the difficulties was that all operations were blitted around using a fast version of memory movement. Without a z-buffer you build the display up by drawing bottom up and overlapping sections are often repeated, in part or whole. There are some accelerations for this based on prior status (top-bottom) of blit-blocks zones (and some fancier algorithms), but it still doesn't touch hardware z-buffering for handling overlapping objects. A fast Z-test on overlapping windows, even if it employs no change in appearance, has still been needed for a very long time, plus it simplifies the system rather than overcomplicates it. One of the difficulties with the 2D acceleration of Windows has been that it has been burdened with a mass of complication to render the display accordingly, 3D acceleration, if only for the z-buffer simplifies operation. Of course MS had to add extra complication after the 3D process simplified things... but that is to be expected. :rolleyes: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I like it - but what happened to the cool side panel that could house UI widgets? (i've been out of the vista loop lately) Also two concerns about these screenshots: 1) the tray icons don't have the XP show/hide button :( I hope they haven't removed that - I hate tray icons! 2) why is the explorer status bar like 50 pixels high? On the one screenshot it just says "8 items" but takes up massive space. (However I can see on the window behind it the status bar has various meta data displayed there which could be useful)
Last I heard[^] the Sidebar will be returning in the Beta 2 released to testers. Build 5270 is not the final build of Beta 2. IIRC in Windows XP the show/hide button on the notification area doesn't appear until there are hidden items, and items won't be hidden until it thinks they haven't changed recently. If the screenshots are taken soon after installing the OS (which I suspect these were) the show/hide button may not be active yet. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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I'll stick with Win2K for my windows stuff. If I wanted "fluff", I'd get a Mac. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If I wanted "fluff", I'd get a Mac.
Only if you want white fluff. For multi-coloured fluff, you'll need XP.
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What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista? Derek announced that it is the official look[^]. You can see some screenshots from build 5270 at Paul Thurrott's site[^]. I realise it is not finished and there are still months of polish to be done but overall I am disapointed. This is not the look of a modern, fresh, clean and usable OS in my opinion. The dark, techy look with the distorting transparency is quite awful. I do like the layout changes but the look is very uninspiring. (If your reply contains "You can change the theme so stop whining!" I have to point out that that is not the point.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Doesn't look that bad to me, but then again I don't get too caught up in the looks thing. It's just a computer. If, once I use it, it's easy to get around and do what I need to do, then groovy. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I'm runnung XP on Windows Classic - for a reason. Judging from the screenshots, I don't like it very much, but it's better than LegoXP.
We say "get a life" to each other, disappointed or jokingly. What we forget, though, is that this is possibly the most destructive advice you can give to a geek.
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighistClassic ! Classic ! Classic ! death to all other styles. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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As if XP's Luna wasn't bad enough. X| I'm sticking with the 'Classic Windows theme' on Win Xp. This looks worse, I agree. :| Cheers, Vikram.
"When I read in books about a "base class", I figured this was the class that was at the bottom of the inheritence tree. It's the "base", right? Like the base of a pyramid." - Marc Clifton.
> As if XP's Luna wasn't bad enough. I'm sticking with the 'Classic Windows theme' on Win Xp. > This looks worse, I agree. Worse yet is trying to use Windows Classic on Vista. It's obvious MS didn't try very hard to make Classic look decent under Vista. Big buttons everywhere... -- modified at 10:24 Tuesday 10th January, 2006 (And I'm saying this as a long-time Windows Classic user)
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Classic ! Classic ! Classic ! death to all other styles. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
So, if Aero/Vista has a classic style option would that be XP default? Would XP Classic then be Vista Classic²? I expect someone will come out with a classic skin fairly rapidly if it isn't available, it is only the icon placement that remains in question to make classic really classic, and I expect someone will provide an interface eventually. I also run classic, I just want it to run smoother and faster. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I am glad they finally 3D accelerated the Aero environment.
This is something I have never wished for in a desktop environment. In fact I fear it.
If you've ever done game development, you'll quickly recognize hardware acceleration as a very good thing. I predict after a year or two of Vista's public availability, people will get used to the fast, no-window-tearing, no-window-flashing, glassy look of Vista; making it undesireable to go back to XP for the sheer feel of using a hardware accelerated UI.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Little House on the Flickr Judah Himango
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Classic ! Classic ! Classic ! death to all other styles. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
To me "Classic" is anything but. X| After 3 years of being able to choose my own theme (and no, it ain't Luna!) I really can't stand the blocky gray look of "Windows Classic" now. If I wanted a Windows 95 system, I'd still be using one... ;P Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Saw a really interesting article, from a link here baout the changes to the kernel. 50 minute talk. Well worth it though. An awful lot going on interally, and a fairly honest talk about exitsting failings. http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=148820[^]
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
Wow! Talk about a loooooooooong boooooooooring video about kernel changes. The only thing I found interesting was that they were FINALLY going after the multimedia glitches! I'll believe it when i see it. That's been a problem since windows 9x for god's sake! It's 2006!!! And the way they fix it is by adjusting thread prios??? How about going thru the MS GUI code and fixing the PROBLEM?? I know i'm going soap box here, buuuuut... Has anybody seen any GOOD kernel stuff since Win2k? I understand MS has gotten big and can't just DO what it used to. But it's kinda depressing, ain't it??? I mean, they yack for almost an HOUR about what they're doing. And it sure doesn't sound like much. I wish they woulda gone thru that "list" the "irish guy" had a little better in a little more detail. (And a lot faster than they went thru the rest of their "boring bullets") The "irp guy" seemed to be the only one that actually knew anything. Yacking forever about functional dependency by the "black shirt guy" sounds like a MAJOR cop out. Sure, you're mapping it out. How are you MAKING WINDOWS BETTER tho? I mean, when the guy gets a cell phone call in the middle of this, he doesn't exactly appear "oooh so interested" in the conversation. As if he knows as well as I that this is a "blowing smoke" session... And don't get me started on the registry! It =WAS= a bad idea. Admit it. Apps should have to fend for themselves for storing config info. Mixing unrelated stuff together in ONE file just ain't right. I heard a lot of hemming and hawing, but didn't see any results. I know I have no right to complain. And I understand that Microsoft has become IBM. At least they haven't TOTALLY screwed up the win32 api. Yet. I guess I should be happy they haven't done any more damage even if they've stopped innovating. I sure miss those days though. When they wrote new GOOD stuff... It was exciting to see it happen! Win95! MSDN! Win2K! then... Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (sorry) ...Steve PS: all my opinion of course. I'm likely way off on a lotta stuff. Please be nice when correcting me.
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To me "Classic" is anything but. X| After 3 years of being able to choose my own theme (and no, it ain't Luna!) I really can't stand the blocky gray look of "Windows Classic" now. If I wanted a Windows 95 system, I'd still be using one... ;P Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
of all the themes that come with XP, Classic is the theme that requires the least amount of real estate. everything else is big, clunky and intrusive. there may be better themes out there somewhere, but i'm not interested in running something like Windowblinds to make them work. Classic is functional and unobtrusive - like me :) no, it's not win95 - it's more like Win98 (gradient title bars!) Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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of all the themes that come with XP, Classic is the theme that requires the least amount of real estate. everything else is big, clunky and intrusive. there may be better themes out there somewhere, but i'm not interested in running something like Windowblinds to make them work. Classic is functional and unobtrusive - like me :) no, it's not win95 - it's more like Win98 (gradient title bars!) Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
Who says I use a theme that came with XP? :laugh: I don't run WindowBlinds either - just a couple of native XP themes (Eclipse and Aickon XP) developed by others. :cool: Incidentally, having different themes on different machines is a really good way of ensuring you don't forget which one you're working on when remoting onto others in the vicinity...:-> Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Who says I use a theme that came with XP? :laugh: I don't run WindowBlinds either - just a couple of native XP themes (Eclipse and Aickon XP) developed by others. :cool: Incidentally, having different themes on different machines is a really good way of ensuring you don't forget which one you're working on when remoting onto others in the vicinity...:-> Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Who says I use a theme that came with XP?
nobody, of course. i'm just not interested in searching for new themes because the one i use does everything i ask it to do (draw windows and get out of the way). Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista? Derek announced that it is the official look[^]. You can see some screenshots from build 5270 at Paul Thurrott's site[^]. I realise it is not finished and there are still months of polish to be done but overall I am disapointed. This is not the look of a modern, fresh, clean and usable OS in my opinion. The dark, techy look with the distorting transparency is quite awful. I do like the layout changes but the look is very uninspiring. (If your reply contains "You can change the theme so stop whining!" I have to point out that that is not the point.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista?
It confirms what i've expected right along - MS won't try anything dangerous or interesting on the Windows UI front. Translucent borders? Big deal. A round start button? Yeah, that'll keep me interested. No toolbar or top menu in Explorer? I guess my Aunt will finally learn to right-click... oh, wait, you just moved it all to a list on the side. There's not even anything to be upset over. With a few very minor changes, XP could produce screenshots like that. The only thing that i found the least bit interesting was that they finally went with a high-contrast white-on-black look for the taskbar. Sure, the next Beta is supposed to re-introduce that sidebar thing, but come on - do you *really* think they'll make it useful? Of course not, it'll just be a big, distracting collection of reminders and notifications, a "Super Tray". The only thing that i'm at all interested in WRT the Vista UI is that it'll finally be completely double-buffered. You know, so that ten years from now i can write software for a supposedly modern desktop operating system without having to rely on techniques learned writing games, in DOS, ten years ago.
---- Scripts i've known... CPhog 0.9.9 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.1 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums
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What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista? Derek announced that it is the official look[^]. You can see some screenshots from build 5270 at Paul Thurrott's site[^]. I realise it is not finished and there are still months of polish to be done but overall I am disapointed. This is not the look of a modern, fresh, clean and usable OS in my opinion. The dark, techy look with the distorting transparency is quite awful. I do like the layout changes but the look is very uninspiring. (If your reply contains "You can change the theme so stop whining!" I have to point out that that is not the point.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
As long as it comes with a setting to make it look like Windows 95 standard as I have done with XP ever since then I'll be happy.
"Hello, hello, what's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here! This is a Local Shop for Local People, there's nothing for you here!" -Edward Tattsyrup
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Paul Watson wrote:
What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista?
It confirms what i've expected right along - MS won't try anything dangerous or interesting on the Windows UI front. Translucent borders? Big deal. A round start button? Yeah, that'll keep me interested. No toolbar or top menu in Explorer? I guess my Aunt will finally learn to right-click... oh, wait, you just moved it all to a list on the side. There's not even anything to be upset over. With a few very minor changes, XP could produce screenshots like that. The only thing that i found the least bit interesting was that they finally went with a high-contrast white-on-black look for the taskbar. Sure, the next Beta is supposed to re-introduce that sidebar thing, but come on - do you *really* think they'll make it useful? Of course not, it'll just be a big, distracting collection of reminders and notifications, a "Super Tray". The only thing that i'm at all interested in WRT the Vista UI is that it'll finally be completely double-buffered. You know, so that ten years from now i can write software for a supposedly modern desktop operating system without having to rely on techniques learned writing games, in DOS, ten years ago.
---- Scripts i've known... CPhog 0.9.9 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.1 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums
Shog9 wrote:
Sure, the next Beta is supposed to re-introduce that sidebar thing, but come on - do you *really* think they'll make it useful? Of course not, it'll just be a big, distracting collection of reminders and notifications, a "Super Tray".
I disagree with that. I've been using a Vista sidebar knock off for the past 2 years called Desktop Sidebar. It allows me to better organize my shortcuts, monitor CPU/Disk/Mem usage, view RSS news feeds, Outlook integration, and more. I think it's a great little innovation. Especially on a wide screen display. So, don't knock it until you try it.
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Shog9 wrote:
Sure, the next Beta is supposed to re-introduce that sidebar thing, but come on - do you *really* think they'll make it useful? Of course not, it'll just be a big, distracting collection of reminders and notifications, a "Super Tray".
I disagree with that. I've been using a Vista sidebar knock off for the past 2 years called Desktop Sidebar. It allows me to better organize my shortcuts, monitor CPU/Disk/Mem usage, view RSS news feeds, Outlook integration, and more. I think it's a great little innovation. Especially on a wide screen display. So, don't knock it until you try it.
I've had toolbars full of shortcuts docked on my desktop since Win98. The rest are distractions, and so i keep them handy, but off-screen. What i'd *like* to see in a sidebar: Tray (the real tray, a transient holder for shortcuts to aid in file management), Clipboard (as in Visual Studio, complete with preview, history, and rotation), Undo (integrated with whatever the current app is), Recent Apps (list the last five or so apps run).
---- Scripts i've known... CPhog 0.9.9 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.1 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Who says I use a theme that came with XP?
nobody, of course. i'm just not interested in searching for new themes because the one i use does everything i ask it to do (draw windows and get out of the way). Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
Fair enough. :) I tihnk the real point is that when the OS supports Visual Styles it is the users choice how the system appears, and not the vendors. Those who prefer "Classic" can have it as before, but those who prefer other styles can have them too. As a UI developer I have to test apps under a wide variety of conditions, and one of my test criterion is that an app supports Visual Styles correctly, but also behaves correctly if they are inactive or unavailable. After all, an unthemed app on a themed system looks equally as ghastly as a themed app on an unthemed syste... Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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What do you think of the Aero Glass look/theme for Windows Vista? Derek announced that it is the official look[^]. You can see some screenshots from build 5270 at Paul Thurrott's site[^]. I realise it is not finished and there are still months of polish to be done but overall I am disapointed. This is not the look of a modern, fresh, clean and usable OS in my opinion. The dark, techy look with the distorting transparency is quite awful. I do like the layout changes but the look is very uninspiring. (If your reply contains "You can change the theme so stop whining!" I have to point out that that is not the point.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
I only wish the window caption bars were even bigger. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
