Women in IT
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No this isn't a geek specific dating resource :laugh: Due to the frequency of comments about female co-workers, I thought I'd post it... The final frontier: Women in IT "No one knows what power lies yet undeveloped in that wiry system of mine." Ada Lovelace 1815-1852
About 6 months ago I started writing an article on women in IT based on the readership at CodeProject. A couple of helpful lasses wrote back with some great info but I then became so disallusioned with attitudes to women in IT that I put the whole thing on the backburner. Guess it's time for me to pull it out and write it up properly. Qomi - interested in giving me your 2c? cheers, Chris Maunder
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Vivek Rajan wrote: Why should (3) and (4) matter in a IT co-worker? In (4), Would it be ok if their "other" activities were contrary to what you might consider acceptable ? For me in addition to (1) and (2), I would like to work with people who are honest about work issues (dont intentionally overlook bugs, etc). I really have no problem if they dont want to have a drink with me, lunch with me, or talk non-work issues with me. They just cant be my buddies, but are perfectly acceptable co-workers. I think the general reply to your position is: "I manage people and work in teams. If the guy is an asseole but a great programmer, I don't want him around. He will cause more problems than he is worth." I work very closely with people in my work and not all of it is "how do I do this function or access that interface?". A lot of it is ideas and concepts which need someone who is willing to talk to you and you can get on with it. Look at Richard Branson, pretty successful guy. He goes out and gets rat faced with his employees. Look at his employees, quite a happy, well motivated and successful bunch. Additionally as I have said before computers are not my life and in fact I don't even have one at home, out of choice. So I would like to be able to relate to co-workers outside of pure technical terms. e.g. Sports, movies, books, science etc. Computers are not everything. Vivek Rajan wrote: They just cant be my buddies, but are perfectly acceptable co-workers That is called "old world thinking" IMHO. That is how the big old bad companies were run and frankly that is not a life, that is a souless entity. I would rather be a bit less successful but having a good time with good people than be more successful and hating everyone I work with. Good relationships are so key to good work environments. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: I think the general reply to your position is: "I manage people and work in teams. If the guy is an asseole but a great programmer, I don't want him around. He will cause more problems than he is worth." I If the guy conformed to points (1 and 2) and was honest, what makes him an asshole ? Surely, he has the _right_ not to want to have drinks with you, or talk about golf/football, or girls. Surely, he cant be fired for that reason only. I guess there will always be diverse folks, some social/some anti-social, some can take a joke/some others get offended easily, some enjoy company after work/some other look forward to just going home, some smile all the time/ some smirk all the time. I guess we have to learn to just accomodate these differences _at_work_. Again, we dont have to love them, just accomodate them. However, I do agree with you - if we only have "professional" attitudes at work, it would make for a boring and plastic work environment. Later- Vivek
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Here in the States we have a cable channel called Cartoon Network. They play some of ancient-but-great cartoons from Warner Bros (Bugs, Daffy, etc) and MGM (Tom & Jerry) but they also produce their own original stuff. Some of it sucks but some of it rocks. My favorites are Dexter's Laboratory, The Powerpuff Girls, and Courage the Cowardly Dog. I'm curious to know if they've made it to Australia yet. Regards, Alvaro
I used to get someone in the US to tape Kids WB for me, for Animaniacs. I love the older cartoons as well, I especially love the few WB did with a family of three bears and the kid is huge and stupid. I dunno if Powerpuff girls plays here, but the merchandise has certainly landed. Never heard of the other two though. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Here in Canada, we have Teletoon. My favs on it are (in the order in which they appear) Dilbert, Oblongs, Mission Hill, Undergrads, & Quads. "No one knows what power lies yet undeveloped in that wiry system of mine." Ada Lovelace 1815-1852
Hmmm, I think they actually play Dilbert on Saturday mornings here, on some network channel. I've never seen it -- Saturday mornings I use to get some sleep from being up all Friday night ;-). Regards, Alvaro
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: Here in the States we have a cable channel called Cartoon Network. They play some of ancient-but-great cartoons from Warner Bros (Bugs, Daffy, etc) and MGM (Tom & Jerry) but they also produce their own original stuff. Some of it sucks but some of it rocks. My favorites are Dexter's Laboratory, The Powerpuff Girls, and Courage the Cowardly Dog. I'm curious to know if they've made it to Australia yet. We can get Cartoon Network in the UK too now (at least via Cable/Satellite). Courage the Cowardly Dog is one of my favourites too! Of course there's Boomarang too for the older stuff - remember Wacky Races and Catch the Pigeon? They're back... :-D Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul WatsonCourage rocks! My favorite episode is the one with the evil Eggplants. Remember when he asks his computer how to get rid of them? I wish I could remember the exact dialog, but I just found it hilarious! :laugh: Regards, Alvaro
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Looking at Law in England the proportion of Women Lawyers coming out of Law School (after passing Solicitors finals) was very low until relatively recently because it was seen as a Male dominated profession I think. These days the situation seems to be quite the reverse. So I guess I'm saying that once the hurdle rate is passed you won't be able to move for female programmers, and they'll be writing articles about Men in IT! I don't personally mind if I sit next to a girl or a boy, unless he's the stereo typical programmer referred to earlier!!!
Alex wrote: Looking at Law in England the proportion of Women Lawyers coming out of Law School (after passing Solicitors finals) was very low until relatively recently because it was seen as a Male dominated profession I think. These days the situation seems to be quite the reverse. A few years back I dated a barrister (a fellow re-enactor in the same group I was a member of), so I've heard loads of pretty damn strange stories about the Law profession in the UK....and believe me, this industry seems much less stressful. :) Mind you, how many people can say they've had a sword fight in the gardens at Harrow Law Courts? She has...:O Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson -
Here in Canada, we have Teletoon. My favs on it are (in the order in which they appear) Dilbert, Oblongs, Mission Hill, Undergrads, & Quads. "No one knows what power lies yet undeveloped in that wiry system of mine." Ada Lovelace 1815-1852
I saw the Dilbert cartoon a few times, but I think it loses something. Now the BOOKS on the other hand are priceless, and although I love just the cartoons, my vote for funniest book ever is 'The Dilbert Future'. If you don't own it, leave your PC now, go to a bookstore and buy it. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Hmmm, I think they actually play Dilbert on Saturday mornings here, on some network channel. I've never seen it -- Saturday mornings I use to get some sleep from being up all Friday night ;-). Regards, Alvaro
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About 6 months ago I started writing an article on women in IT based on the readership at CodeProject. A couple of helpful lasses wrote back with some great info but I then became so disallusioned with attitudes to women in IT that I put the whole thing on the backburner. Guess it's time for me to pull it out and write it up properly. Qomi - interested in giving me your 2c? cheers, Chris Maunder
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Courage rocks! My favorite episode is the one with the evil Eggplants. Remember when he asks his computer how to get rid of them? I wish I could remember the exact dialog, but I just found it hilarious! :laugh: Regards, Alvaro
Alvaro Mendez wrote: Courage rocks! My favorite episode is the one with the evil Eggplants. Remember when he asks his computer how to get rid of them? I wish I could remember the exact dialog, but I just found it hilarious! Funnily enough, that's the episode that was in my mind when I read your post...:-D I just love the villains on that show too - Le Quack cracks me up every time. :laugh: Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson -
About 6 months ago I started writing an article on women in IT based on the readership at CodeProject. A couple of helpful lasses wrote back with some great info but I then became so disallusioned with attitudes to women in IT that I put the whole thing on the backburner. Guess it's time for me to pull it out and write it up properly. Qomi - interested in giving me your 2c? cheers, Chris Maunder
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I was a Math major in college, so I can't speak for the computer science courses, There were not many women especially in the upper division classes. There would only be 1 or 2 other women taking the class. Only two of the many math courses I took were taught by women. These two were my favorite ones. In the first, Calculus, she talked me into wanting to be a math professor. Of course that's not where I ended up but that's another story. She was definately my mentor. The other one, Number Theory, was my second favorite teacher. Of course quite a few of my male teachers also took me under their wing. I don't know what my point is, except that things are changing. I think 20 years ago, there were hardly any women in math. 20 years from now, we won't see any gender discrpancies at all. The more women go into a field, the more are available to mentor the one's coming in. It's not that men didn't try to mentor me. I just didn't really see my life being able to be like their life. For example, the female Calculus teacher that inspired me had was pregnant. So she showed me that I could do that job and have a family too. The male teacher had a wife that stayed home to take care of his kids. I figured I probably wasn't going to be able to have one of those since I'm not attracted to women. I don't really know, but just from looking around, it seemed like there were a lot more women in computer science courses than in math courses. Sorry for rambling on and not really going anywhere. Cathy Life's uncertain, have dessert first!
Cathy wrote: "20 years from now, we won't see any gender discrpancies at all. " I totally agree. As for the mentor bit, how nice for you. I only had one female teacher and unless she was one of those that are harder on the ones she liked, she hated me. :laugh: I never did understand why. My only logical guess might be religious prejudice, as she was/is a christian and I am not. Please, before anyone jumps, I realize that not all christians are like that, but I have met quite a few who are. "No one knows what power lies yet undeveloped in that wiry system of mine." Ada Lovelace 1815-1852
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Here in the States we have a cable channel called Cartoon Network. They play some of ancient-but-great cartoons from Warner Bros (Bugs, Daffy, etc) and MGM (Tom & Jerry) but they also produce their own original stuff. Some of it sucks but some of it rocks. My favorites are Dexter's Laboratory, The Powerpuff Girls, and Courage the Cowardly Dog. I'm curious to know if they've made it to Australia yet. Regards, Alvaro
We get cartoon network in india.I like Dexter's laboratory, Jetsons, Tintin etc.:) Vimal
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Cathy wrote: "20 years from now, we won't see any gender discrpancies at all. " I totally agree. As for the mentor bit, how nice for you. I only had one female teacher and unless she was one of those that are harder on the ones she liked, she hated me. :laugh: I never did understand why. My only logical guess might be religious prejudice, as she was/is a christian and I am not. Please, before anyone jumps, I realize that not all christians are like that, but I have met quite a few who are. "No one knows what power lies yet undeveloped in that wiry system of mine." Ada Lovelace 1815-1852
qomi wrote: I only had one female teacher and unless she was one of those that are harder on the ones she liked, she hated me That's sad, because it made all the difference for me. I've read that some women help other women up and some tear them down. It sounds like she was of the tear them down variety. I believe (???? not really sure at all) that it's called the queen bee syndrome. Well you can turn your experience into a positive one by helping others up since you know how it feels having experienced the opposite. Before she started talking to me, I was wandering aimlessly in college trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up. She inspired me and gave me a direction. Cathy Life's uncertain, have dessert first!
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I fail, because I don't drink ( although I tend to get along with people OK, so will that do ? ), and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: fail, because I don't drink ( although I tend to get along with people OK, so will that do ? ), and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Well you can drink water or some orange juice. :) Actually I just used the pub as example. I know some great IT friends who don't like pubs, but we get on well at the movies or at a park etc. ****Christian Graus wrote: and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Christian, by the mere fact that you participate in the Lounge and have good points to make about a lot of topics makes me think there ARE other things in your life and that you would be interesting to talk to outside of work. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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****Christian Graus wrote: fail, because I don't drink ( although I tend to get along with people OK, so will that do ? ), and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Well you can drink water or some orange juice. :) Actually I just used the pub as example. I know some great IT friends who don't like pubs, but we get on well at the movies or at a park etc. ****Christian Graus wrote: and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Christian, by the mere fact that you participate in the Lounge and have good points to make about a lot of topics makes me think there ARE other things in your life and that you would be interesting to talk to outside of work. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Christian Graus wrote: fail, because I don't drink ( although I tend to get along with people OK, so will that do ? ), and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Well you can drink water or some orange juice. Actually I just used the pub as example. I know some great IT friends who don't like pubs, but we get on well at the movies or at a park etc. I was, of course, being pedantic, but I know what you mean. I really value the fact that I enjoy the company of everyone I work with. Our weekly meetings are hilarious. Somehow, we still get the job done... Paul Watson wrote: Christian Graus wrote: and I have nothing much in my life apart from IT. Christian, by the mere fact that you participate in the Lounge and have good points to make about a lot of topics makes me think there ARE other things in your life and that you would be interesting to talk to outside of work. I'll quote you on that - everyone at work tells me I am running out of stories... There are, of course, other things in my life, even things I'd consider more important than IT, but a disproportionate amount of my time is spent sitting in front of the screen, for all that. I always seem to have some side project going on that sucks all of my available time... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now