Middle East
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Matthew Hazlett wrote:
I don't need to have personally expirenced or intensivly studied the last thousand years to realize the scope and influence religion has played in society
Precisely as I thought. Like most making those kinds of claims you have not the slightest clue of what you are talking about. Tell you what, what don't you go to google and find the last actual war that was fought for reasons directly related to religion? (Our current 'war on terror' excepted, of course). Has religion played an important role in human culture? Well, fuck yes it has. In fact, religion largly defines most of what human culture actually is. But, so what? Has that been entirely bad? Would we even be here if it had not been so? How do you eliminate such a pervasive and fundamental concept? ANd if so, what do you replace it with? What is the substitute? Government? Hollywood? Humanism? And if you do, how do you prevent those things from becoming religions in their own right. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself" -- modified at 19:18 Saturday 28th January, 2006
Your right, its not entirely bad. In fact there are a lot of good things in Religion. However, one belief system is no more valid then another. And when that belief system is used as a club to harm others its time to "kick it to the curb". It is obvious we do not agree on this issue, and thats fine by me. Each person needs to formulate there own answer the question of religion. My view is: It was good in the past It has been used to justify wars / conflicts It's importance needs to be deminished, people need to decide what makes sense to them and what they believe. Not follow some text some guy wrote thousands of years ago. Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
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Your right, its not entirely bad. In fact there are a lot of good things in Religion. However, one belief system is no more valid then another. And when that belief system is used as a club to harm others its time to "kick it to the curb". It is obvious we do not agree on this issue, and thats fine by me. Each person needs to formulate there own answer the question of religion. My view is: It was good in the past It has been used to justify wars / conflicts It's importance needs to be deminished, people need to decide what makes sense to them and what they believe. Not follow some text some guy wrote thousands of years ago. Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
We actually probably agree on far more than we disagree on. Its just that the entire attitude towards Chrisitanity that seems to have taken root among certain elements of our culture really gets under my skin. I have lived around Chrisitans my entire life and have found them almost universally to be among the kindest, most gentle and loving people one could wish to be around. I have met very few that expressed any political beliefs of any kind, and of those as many were left leaning as right leaning. Are many of them concerned about the direction our culture is taking? Yes. Do many of them vote according to those religious sentiments? Yes, they do. But the notion that they should not is so virulantly un-democratic and grossly anti-American, that I am just staggered by the implications of it. I absolutely believe that the left and the democratic party have become so thoroughly controlled by a coalition of extremists groups that they are trying to fabricate a fictious 'radical religious right' in order to be able to offset their own radicalism in the public mind. If they can keep the center's attention directed toward Christian Fundamentalism, their own extremism can be more easily camouflaged. And, again, it continues to just blow me away that we could be confronted with a very real and dangerous example of religious extremism coming from some other culture, yet we still continue to entertain this silly politcal charade. I just find the entire situation to be nearly beyond belief. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
That's what some Christian fundamentalists are praying for. They think a crisis in the M.E. will lead to the return of Jesus.
Not only the Christian fundamentalists. Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad belongs to a fundamentalist faction of Shia which waits for the comming of Imam Mahdi, one last muslim prophet which would come among a situation of chaos. Once again, the extremists (christians and muslims) are alike, not different. Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
Diego Moita wrote:
Once again, the extremists (christians and muslims) are alike, not different.
Except that muslim fundamentalists blow people up everyday in the name of their god. That rarely happens with christians, and when it does, the christians have no problem denouncing those people who commit such acts, whereas the muslims will rarely denounce a terrorist. And, the Koran and Hadith both command you to kill nonbelievers, whereas the New Testament does not. Perhaps i am just spreading my paranoid ideology of hatred and bigotry to suggest that Islam encourages violence, but the Islamists in the middle east seem to agree with me when they blow themselves and "infadels" up hoping to goto paradise, and actions speak louder than words. You may say that most muslims are moderate and do not believe in violence, but I would not trust any of them, because they claim to follow a book which encourages violence, whether liberal pacificists like you admit it or not. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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Stan Shannon wrote:
lets be sure to worry about those 4 guys
If it were only 4, Stan, I wouldn't worry. But there are more.
Like Stan, i live in the Bible Belt, and I have not seen any of these evil Christian Extremests that you speak of out destroying society. Perhaps since you are a liberal and know everything, you can enlighten me. Most of the people I see destroying society are liberals like you who have no idea about reality. The reason I say that you have no idea about reality is that I live in a Right-Wing Christian gun owning family, and it is nothing like you liberals say, we are not extremists or bigots, and we are not dangerous just because we own guns. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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peterchen wrote:
But we can stop making it worse.
There is only one solution to that problem, and it's not pretty. People, black, white, christian, muslims, whatever, will have to die due to a common catastrophy. That's the only way, IMO, to make people see others as partners rather than adversaries.
Dont we have HIV to do that ?
-Prakash
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
But there are more.
Than I would like to know where they are hiding. I have lived my entire life in the bible belt, travel widely through it today, go to church on a fairly regular basis, and I haven't seen the slightest hint of this looming spectre of hordes of Christian loonies destroying American civilzation. I think worrying about a few thousand Christian maniacs, at best, when the world is swarming with about a billion Muslim maniacs is simply silly. Christian fundamentalism is just about the most impotent, weak and well maintained threat of all those which currently face our civilization. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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Like Stan, i live in the Bible Belt, and I have not seen any of these evil Christian Extremests that you speak of out destroying society. Perhaps since you are a liberal and know everything, you can enlighten me. Most of the people I see destroying society are liberals like you who have no idea about reality. The reason I say that you have no idea about reality is that I live in a Right-Wing Christian gun owning family, and it is nothing like you liberals say, we are not extremists or bigots, and we are not dangerous just because we own guns. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
But there are more.
Than I would like to know where they are hiding. I have lived my entire life in the bible belt, travel widely through it today, go to church on a fairly regular basis, and I haven't seen the slightest hint of this looming spectre of hordes of Christian loonies destroying American civilzation. I think worrying about a few thousand Christian maniacs, at best, when the world is swarming with about a billion Muslim maniacs is simply silly. Christian fundamentalism is just about the most impotent, weak and well maintained threat of all those which currently face our civilization. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
I think worrying about a few thousand Christian maniacs, at best, when the world is swarming with about a billion Muslim maniacs is simply silly.
The Rapture Index[^] currently stands at 157. Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power [^] Excerpts: What makes the story so appealing to Christian fundamentalists is that before the big battle begins, all "true believers" (ie those who believe what they believe) will be lifted out of their clothes and wafted up to heaven during an event called the Rapture. The true believers are now seeking to bring all this about. This means staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there), sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be. American pollsters believe that 15-18% of US voters belong to churches or movements which subscribe to these teachings. A survey in 1999 suggested that this figure included 33% of Republicans. And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay. Mr DeLay (who is also the co-author of the marvellously named DeLay-Doolittle Amendment, postponing campaign finance reforms) travelled to Israel last year to tell the Knesset that "there is no middle ground, no moderate position worth taking".
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Like Stan, i live in the Bible Belt, and I have not seen any of these evil Christian Extremests that you speak of out destroying society. Perhaps since you are a liberal and know everything, you can enlighten me. Most of the people I see destroying society are liberals like you who have no idea about reality. The reason I say that you have no idea about reality is that I live in a Right-Wing Christian gun owning family, and it is nothing like you liberals say, we are not extremists or bigots, and we are not dangerous just because we own guns. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Most of the people I see destroying society are liberals like you who have no idea about reality. The reason I say that you have no idea about reality is that I live in a Right-Wing Christian gun owning family, and it is nothing like you liberals say, we are not extremists or bigots, and we are not dangerous just because we own guns.
Thank you Pumk1nh3ad! I am sick of liberals bashing what I believe it. I don't go around telling them what they should or should not believe in. I am a Christian and THANKFUL FOR IT! Paul
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Most of the people I see destroying society are liberals like you who have no idea about reality. The reason I say that you have no idea about reality is that I live in a Right-Wing Christian gun owning family, and it is nothing like you liberals say, we are not extremists or bigots, and we are not dangerous just because we own guns.
Thank you Pumk1nh3ad! I am sick of liberals bashing what I believe it. I don't go around telling them what they should or should not believe in. I am a Christian and THANKFUL FOR IT! Paul
Your sarcasm is not impressive. :zzz: "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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You keep linking to junk that christians have put on the internet. Just because someone puts something on the internet and calls it christian doesnt necessarily mean that all christians agree with it. The rapture warning thing that you linked to above and the left behind series are both garbage, and do not represent all christians. Also, the bible does not directly say there is going to be a rapture, but it does say there is going to be a tribulation and second comming, and nothing man can do will speed it up or slow it down. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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Dont we have HIV to do that ?
-Prakash
No since 70% of H.I.V. victims are black. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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No since 70% of H.I.V. victims are black. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
No since 70% of H.I.V. victims are black.
oh wow, didnt know about this statistic.
-Prakash
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Paul Watson wrote:
No since 70% of H.I.V. victims are black.
oh wow, didnt know about this statistic.
-Prakash
And a good percentage believe HIV is a virus invented by the west to decimate Africa. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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And a good percentage believe HIV is a virus invented by the west to decimate Africa. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
And a good percentage believe HIV is a virus invented by the west to decimate Africa.
now thats funny.
-Prakash
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Paul Watson wrote:
And a good percentage believe HIV is a virus invented by the west to decimate Africa.
now thats funny.
-Prakash
Funny as in daft beyond belief, yes. Otherwise it isn't funny as it causes hatred. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Funny as in daft beyond belief, yes. Otherwise it isn't funny as it causes hatred. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
Otherwise it isn't funny as it causes hatred.
A doctor from USA said that HIV is actually bring the world closer for fight against it. i.e, many contries donating money for the cause, different NGOs , red cross etc from different contries are in africa to help and educate them. so i was surpriced to hear that HIV is used as a reason to hate the west, well then cant do much about these guys, there are many other ppl in the world who think the same way and blow themself up at public places and now they have won the elections.
-Prakash
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It's getting pretty messey over there with Hamas being elected. I really hope they stop beating the terror drums and forget about Isreal. Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region. As a US citizen I think we should build structers in Isreal next to the buildings Hamas wants to blow up, maybe that will discurage them? I'm not sure what else anyone can do. It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating. Thats in itself is extreamly rare. We all need to get our ***** in order, this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control. :-( My 2 Cents... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
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Paul Watson wrote:
Otherwise it isn't funny as it causes hatred.
A doctor from USA said that HIV is actually bring the world closer for fight against it. i.e, many contries donating money for the cause, different NGOs , red cross etc from different contries are in africa to help and educate them. so i was surpriced to hear that HIV is used as a reason to hate the west, well then cant do much about these guys, there are many other ppl in the world who think the same way and blow themself up at public places and now they have won the elections.
-Prakash
Well there is resentment from Africa that the west either does not contribute enough money or when it does it comes with strings attached. That is not my view at all, it is the typical "we demand!" African bullshit and I detest it. But that is what is on the street. There is little "Thank you U.S.A and Europe for your help." from what I have seen. Often due to the money not reaching the people on the ground. Usual corrupt donation crap. People are dying, children are starving, they turn to anger. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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And a good percentage believe HIV is a virus invented by the west to decimate Africa. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
:laugh: You are joking, right? Believing that is about as stupid as saying that Bush bombed the levies in New Orleans. :rolleyes: "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."