Ultimate Toolbox
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Yesterday, I happened to go to the Dundas web site and was surprised to find they only have .NET offerings. Just now I clicked on the "The Ultimate Toolback" ad and finally got to the "About Us" page. Made me curious; did you (Chris and David) buy the class libraries from Dundas? Did they give them to you? Is there still a connection with Dundas? Even more importantly, have you improved the toolbox and grid? (Last I used the Grid was about six years ago and it was pretty bad.) For those who have used and/or evaluated it--how does it compare to CodeJock? (feel free to make hypercritical remarks.) BCGControlBar? Finally, just out of curiosity, do you need to use the full "Document/View" architecture to use the UI library. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke -- modified at 17:35 Tuesday 31st January, 2006
Hey Joe, So yes, Chris and I did buy the products from Dundas and we've set up a separate organization to support and update them. The primary motivation here is that there are literally thousands and thousands of users of these products and I personally didn't want the products to languish any longer. Is there a connection with Dundas? Sure, the connection is me. I think most people know that I'm the CEO of Dundas, and a Co-founder of CodeProject. Like Nish has mentioned I think you're confusing Ultimate Grid and Ultimate Toolbox. Both BCG and CodeJock have excellent libraries, and anyone who is considering an MFC library should certainly evaluate them both. Neither of those companies offer an MFC Grid component however and if that's important it's definitely something to consider. If you have specific questions about the products you should probably talk to Nish directly through the support@theultimatetoolbox.com alias. Almost all of the classes are independent of the Doc/View architecture. You can chose to work with it or without it. I think everyone realizes that we've been applying the bulk of our attention to CodeProject and making that work as well as possible. Nish, Smitha, Christian, Chris and I are spending time to advance Ultimate Toolbox, Ultimate Grid, and Ultimate TCP/IP. Hope that helps Joe. David
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My only concern is that my subscription will have run out. While you can't give exact dates, could you let me know if my subscription will still be valid at that point? Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
I can't Tom, sorry. Feel free to email me though and we can discuss your concerns. As it sits though support is available to you and that's the primary objective of the subscription. It's a funny topic really. I'm just in the process of buying 20 copies of Windows Server 2003 Web Edition for CodeProject and have decided against buying Software Assurance as I doubt I'll see value for it. Microsoft has got in a lot of hot water with their customers for promising to deliver updates in a schedule and then missing them. We don't do that. We provide support and along with that support if an update happens, you get that too. It's differnet I think; better. David
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Hi Tom. I've been working on the grid since December, and the toolbox since mid Jan. I have no idea what happened prior to then. I'm saying it is being updated now. I'm not sure when it will be released, that's not my decision. I'm sure we'll ship when we're sure it's ready. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm sure we'll ship when we're sure it's ready.
Right-o. David
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
To get the Outlook 2003 look and feel with tabs, splitters and the left pain slider type lists.
Looks like you are talking about the Toolbox product. The Ultimate Grid is a different product. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Nope, not confusing anything, just mixing comments and questions about the two together. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
To get the Outlook 2003 look and feel with tabs, splitters and the left pain slider type lists.
Looks like you are talking about the Toolbox product. The Ultimate Grid is a different product. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Look at the title of the post, Nish. ;P
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be saved -
Look at the title of the post, Nish. ;P
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be savedDavid Stone wrote:
Look at the title of the post, Nish.
I saw that, David. Ultimate Grid, Ultimate Toolbox and Ultimate TCP/IP are all sold through the Ultimate Toolbox website. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
-- modified at 20:27 Tuesday 31st January, 2006
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Hey Joe, So yes, Chris and I did buy the products from Dundas and we've set up a separate organization to support and update them. The primary motivation here is that there are literally thousands and thousands of users of these products and I personally didn't want the products to languish any longer. Is there a connection with Dundas? Sure, the connection is me. I think most people know that I'm the CEO of Dundas, and a Co-founder of CodeProject. Like Nish has mentioned I think you're confusing Ultimate Grid and Ultimate Toolbox. Both BCG and CodeJock have excellent libraries, and anyone who is considering an MFC library should certainly evaluate them both. Neither of those companies offer an MFC Grid component however and if that's important it's definitely something to consider. If you have specific questions about the products you should probably talk to Nish directly through the support@theultimatetoolbox.com alias. Almost all of the classes are independent of the Doc/View architecture. You can chose to work with it or without it. I think everyone realizes that we've been applying the bulk of our attention to CodeProject and making that work as well as possible. Nish, Smitha, Christian, Chris and I are spending time to advance Ultimate Toolbox, Ultimate Grid, and Ultimate TCP/IP. Hope that helps Joe. David
David Cunningham wrote:
I think most people know that I'm the CEO of Dundas, and a Co-founder of CodeProject.
Egad! Say it isn't so!!! (kidding :P) Jeremy Falcon
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Hey Joe, So yes, Chris and I did buy the products from Dundas and we've set up a separate organization to support and update them. The primary motivation here is that there are literally thousands and thousands of users of these products and I personally didn't want the products to languish any longer. Is there a connection with Dundas? Sure, the connection is me. I think most people know that I'm the CEO of Dundas, and a Co-founder of CodeProject. Like Nish has mentioned I think you're confusing Ultimate Grid and Ultimate Toolbox. Both BCG and CodeJock have excellent libraries, and anyone who is considering an MFC library should certainly evaluate them both. Neither of those companies offer an MFC Grid component however and if that's important it's definitely something to consider. If you have specific questions about the products you should probably talk to Nish directly through the support@theultimatetoolbox.com alias. Almost all of the classes are independent of the Doc/View architecture. You can chose to work with it or without it. I think everyone realizes that we've been applying the bulk of our attention to CodeProject and making that work as well as possible. Nish, Smitha, Christian, Chris and I are spending time to advance Ultimate Toolbox, Ultimate Grid, and Ultimate TCP/IP. Hope that helps Joe. David
David Cunningham wrote:
Like Nish has mentioned I think you're confusing Ultimate Grid and Ultimate Toolbox.
Nope, not confusing anything, just conflating comments and questions about the two together. Your comments were helpful since I was mainly interested at the relationship between the two companies. I did an evaluation just under two years ago and chose CodeJock, but will very likely to another evaluation in the next few months once I am ready to concentrate on the UI. (Even if I don't use Ultimate Toolbox, I'm glad you guys are working on it. Competition is a good thing. Given my current employment situation--lack thereof--are you guys looking for any more contractors?:)) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: (Last I used the Grid was about six years ago and it was pretty bad.) It's certainly been worked on since then, and I didn't see it 6 years ago. What was wrong with it then?
I'm quite sure it's been worked on, but at the time it was some of the least spectacular code I've seen. It just wasn't written very well; it seemed like a total hack job.
Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: For those who have used and/or evaluated it--how does it compare to CodeJock? (feel free to make hypercritical remarks.) BCGControlBar? I won't comment here, because I obviously am not impartial.
I don't want impartial views; they are a waste of my time. I want partial, strongly held views, though only if you've actually used at least one of the alternatives. I want to hear sound engineering arguments why one is better than the other.
Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: Finally, just out of curiosity, do you need to use the full "Document/View" architecture to use the UI library. In what way ?
To get the Outlook 2003 look and feel with tabs, splitters and the left pain slider type lists. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
LOL, why in the world did this get rated a 1 by 3 people? The message rating system is so silly. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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David Stone wrote:
Look at the title of the post, Nish.
I saw that, David. Ultimate Grid, Ultimate Toolbox and Ultimate TCP/IP are all sold through the Ultimate Toolbox website. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
-- modified at 20:27 Tuesday 31st January, 2006
True. It just didn't seem to me like Joe had anything confused with each other.
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be saved -
Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: (Last I used the Grid was about six years ago and it was pretty bad.) It's certainly been worked on since then, and I didn't see it 6 years ago. What was wrong with it then?
I'm quite sure it's been worked on, but at the time it was some of the least spectacular code I've seen. It just wasn't written very well; it seemed like a total hack job.
Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: For those who have used and/or evaluated it--how does it compare to CodeJock? (feel free to make hypercritical remarks.) BCGControlBar? I won't comment here, because I obviously am not impartial.
I don't want impartial views; they are a waste of my time. I want partial, strongly held views, though only if you've actually used at least one of the alternatives. I want to hear sound engineering arguments why one is better than the other.
Christian Graus wrote:
Joe Woodbury wrote: Finally, just out of curiosity, do you need to use the full "Document/View" architecture to use the UI library. In what way ?
To get the Outlook 2003 look and feel with tabs, splitters and the left pain slider type lists. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Wow - I wonder who decided to give this 1 votes ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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David Cunningham wrote:
Like Nish has mentioned I think you're confusing Ultimate Grid and Ultimate Toolbox.
Nope, not confusing anything, just conflating comments and questions about the two together. Your comments were helpful since I was mainly interested at the relationship between the two companies. I did an evaluation just under two years ago and chose CodeJock, but will very likely to another evaluation in the next few months once I am ready to concentrate on the UI. (Even if I don't use Ultimate Toolbox, I'm glad you guys are working on it. Competition is a good thing. Given my current employment situation--lack thereof--are you guys looking for any more contractors?:)) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Nope, not confusing anything, just conflating comments and questions about the two together.
I'm surprised. Ultimate Grid usually gets all kinds of kudos, the UI is a little dated right now but that's why we're giving it a face-lift. Depending on what parts of the Toolbox you use you are either really happy or a little disappointed. What's happening there is that many of the less useful classes are being depricated, the whole library is being rationalized and it too will receive a face-lift.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
are you guys looking for any more contractors
Yes. Particularly if you think we've done a bad job and could have done it much better. I learned a long time ago that making great products means focusing on the customer and putting your pride in your back pocket. Send me your resume. David
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True. It just didn't seem to me like Joe had anything confused with each other.
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be savedDavid Stone wrote:
True. It just didn't seem to me like Joe had anything confused with each other.
He said the Grid code was bad in his earlier post. But in his reply to CG, he talked about Toolbox stuff. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
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David Stone wrote:
True. It just didn't seem to me like Joe had anything confused with each other.
He said the Grid code was bad in his earlier post. But in his reply to CG, he talked about Toolbox stuff. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Ah. Okay. Missed that. :)
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be saved -
Ah. Okay. Missed that. :)
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be savedDavid Stone wrote:
Ah. Okay. Missed that.
Your replies are so fast!!! Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
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Yesterday, I happened to go to the Dundas web site and was surprised to find they only have .NET offerings. Just now I clicked on the "The Ultimate Toolback" ad and finally got to the "About Us" page. Made me curious; did you (Chris and David) buy the class libraries from Dundas? Did they give them to you? Is there still a connection with Dundas? Even more importantly, have you improved the toolbox and grid? (Last I used the Grid was about six years ago and it was pretty bad.) For those who have used and/or evaluated it--how does it compare to CodeJock? (feel free to make hypercritical remarks.) BCGControlBar? Finally, just out of curiosity, do you need to use the full "Document/View" architecture to use the UI library. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke -- modified at 17:35 Tuesday 31st January, 2006
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David Stone wrote:
Ah. Okay. Missed that.
Your replies are so fast!!! Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Your replies are so fast!!!
;)
---- Scripts i've known... CPhog 0.9.9 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.1 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums
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David Stone wrote:
Ah. Okay. Missed that.
Your replies are so fast!!! Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
CPhog. ;)
I went out there, in search of experience,
To taste and to touch and to feel as much
As a man can, before he repents...
-The Wanderer, Johnny Cash & U2Signature Area - Any changes made to the current sig will be saved -
Hi Tom. I've been working on the grid since December, and the toolbox since mid Jan. I have no idea what happened prior to then. I'm saying it is being updated now. I'm not sure when it will be released, that's not my decision. I'm sure we'll ship when we're sure it's ready. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
When the update does ship mind making an announcement here so we can catch it. ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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When the update does ship mind making an announcement here so we can catch it. ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
As it's owned by CP now, I would fully expect there to be banner ads promoting the release, but either way, I'm sure Nish and I will mention it here. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++