Source Control
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I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Subversion with TortoiseSVN, as others have suggested. -- LuisR
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
The amount of sleep the average person needs is five more minutes. -- Vikram A Punathambekar, Aug. 11, 2005
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We are using VSS in a similar setting for :omg: many years now, with no "database casualties". However: - getting a serious backup working isn't as straigtforward - I never got the hang of ssbackup (and lost some VSS data when we lost a server, fortunately, I had the entire VSS directory zipped, too, which worked perfectly well for restoring) - VSS linking in .dsp, .dsw files (I don't know if this is better in VS 2003/2005 - but I don#t think much has changed here) VC6 .dsp (project) and .dsw (workspace) files, the .opt file and the vss "droppings" (*.scc) contain a reference to the originating VSS folder (e.g. $/Sources/...) So when you GET a folder, copy it to a new place, and ADD this "manual branch" to a different VSS location (e.g. $/Sources2/), the project is still connected to the original branch, and VC6 integration will work with that. CHAOS! (I'm now using a "VSS Detacher" tool, which makes that ok) - Branching + Pinning Works better than what's said about it. However, you have to try around and write down rules, otherwise people make silly things. - Avoid Automatic merge like THE BIRD FLU - the "Exclusive checkout/checkin" model works very well in a small team (<=5 ppl) all present in one office. The GET/MERGE model propagated by "others" seems to be necessary for larger or more detached teams though. - Reporting is bad - Some stuff can be done only via the command line [edit] it corrupts binary files that it doesn't detect as binary. Normally you are fine (and you can set it for an individual filer to be binary) But that's really sucky e.g. for small gifs. If you configure the extensions you use you are fine though[/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 14:10 Monday 13th March, 2006peterchen wrote:
- VSS linking in .dsp, .dsw files (I don't know if this is better in VS 2003/2005 - but I don#t think much has changed here) VC6 .dsp (project) and .dsw (workspace) files, the .opt file and the vss "droppings" (*.scc) contain a reference to the originating VSS folder (e.g. $/Sources/...) So when you GET a folder, copy it to a new place, and ADD this "manual branch" to a different VSS location (e.g. $/Sources2/), the project is still connected to the original branch, and VC6 integration will work with that. CHAOS! (I'm now using a "VSS Detacher" tool, which makes that ok)
That's really a fault in Visual Studio, and you'll have the same problem whatever source control plugin you use. That's one of the reasons I don't use the IDE plug-in for Vault if avoidable. You're probably supposed to do a branch in the source control tool then do an 'Open from Source Control' in the IDE to sort out the project files. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Funny that you're mentioning this now. I'm currently looking into changing source control apps. My team and I have been using VSS for about 10 years. We currently have about 3 separate SourceSafe installations and 2 of them have permanent corruption that we just can't get rid of. We've also ran into the 2 GB limit once as well. VSS seems to work well if it's installed locally. It's the remote connections which seems to have issues. If you lose your network connection or the server's disk fills up in the middle of a transaction, then BAM, corruption! Not cool. I plan on evaluating Microsoft's new Team Foundation Server this week since it came with my MSDN subscription. If that doesn't go well, then I might have to move over to good old Subversion.
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Here's[^] a discussion from a while back. :)
Now taking suggestions for the next release of CPhog...
And another 5 for saving virtual paper and the virtual trees.... ;P _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Hello! I'd suggest to take a look at Code Co-Op[^]: * Server-Less * good value for money * local, remote, email, whatever I'm using it since ... hmmm... I don't remember. :-D It's just there and never failed... By the way, a Version Control and Configuration Managenment Systems Feature to Price Comparison can be found on this page [^] of their site. Did I mention, that I have no affiliation with that company ... ;) Greetings, Ralph
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I had to give you a 5 for promoting my work. :) I think I might have to turn that little tidbit into an article. Seems to be a solution that many wind up using. I love it. It's pretty cool. Now I just need to get a one of those 256 processor super computers to go with it and I'll be ready to take over the world... Or install VS 2005.:rolleyes:
A Plain English signature. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
Seems to be a solution that many wind up using.
it'll get my vote for an article. It would be good to have short-cut setup instructions for the preferred tools of developers. Sometimes a good tool can get overlooked simply because there is no time to reinvent the wheel in figuring how to set it up properly.
code-frog wrote:
Now I just need to get a one of those 256 processor super computers to go with it and I'll be ready to take over the world
only 256? the world will take a bit more than that... sheer processing power I know of at least 10 computers (none in my posession, not THAT lucky), off the top of my head that are larger than that. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Miszou wrote:
Cheap ;) Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out) Reliable Suitable for 3-5 users Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database. As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Subversion. The only thing it doesn't really do is have a clean SCC plugin for VS.NET. But that's because the SCC model relies on the checkout/lock, checkin/unlock model that VSS follows. Subversion works on the checkout/modify/merge system. For VS 200x, you can use AnkhSVN[^] for a Subversion plugin...not sure about VS 6.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
Pity AnkhSVN is so crap (at least under VS2005.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
do -
I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Subversion. Though it doesn't have good VS.NET integration (I find AnkhSVN to be unreliable.) However the Windows Explorer plugin, TortoiseSVN, is very good and you don't need cryptic command-line commands for it. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
do -
Pity AnkhSVN is so crap (at least under VS2005.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
doTrue. I don't even use it. I'm a Tortoise man myself.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
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True. I don't even use it. I'm a Tortoise man myself.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
Absolutely, works as advertised. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
do -
I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Check out Perforce. - Excellent in its own right. I have used it at 3 of my last 4 companies for a wide variety of team sizes, product types, and platforms. Once you use Perforce it will be painful to use anything else. - Rock solid stability - Good Visual Studio integration - Cross-platform support (Windows, Linux, etc.) - Reasonably priced for commercial development -- free for 1-2 devs, otherwise ~$1k/dev.
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Sourcegear Vault is still my favourite. Using an SQL database back-end gives it an extra reliability. The VS integration is okay but I'm old fashioned and prefer the Vault tools. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
I second Sourcegear Vault. I've never had a problem with it. Our team is three developers. One nice thing about it is that you can install a single user version for free at home, regardless of whether you are a paying customer or not. You only have to pay for licenses when you add a second user. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that if you were a lone developer, you might skip using source control. My opinion is that you should use source control even if you are the only developer. It has saved me from a number of bad outcomes. Timothy Lee Russell http://www.anatone.net
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I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
Here are my 2 cents. I used Clearcase at my previous job and when I moved to a new job about a year ago, I learned that they used SourceSafe. After learning how to use SourceSafe and seeing its many disadvantages compared with Clearcase, I decided to look for alternate solutions. I experimented with SourceGear, Surround SCM, QVCS, NGSource, Perforce, and some others that I don't recall. Of all these tools I liked the best Perforce because of its simplicity and a whole great deal of features. What I liked is that it had all of the features available in Clearcase but with a whole great deal of simplicity for for one tenth the price of Clearcase. We have been using it for the last 8 months and everyone just loves it. Our team has 15 people and we have no problems with it at all. Regards, Rudy.
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I have convinced my small team of co-workers (3 in all), that we need to invest in some sort of source control for our projects. Currently, we have *many* small projects scattered all over the network and different hard drives, which needless to say, is not a great solution. I have given a short demonstration of how easy MS Source-Safe is to use from within the various IDE's that we use here (VC6, VB6, Visual Studio 2003/2005) which received positive feedback. We've decided that it's time to move forward and get something installed before it's too late. And then came the inevitable questions: "How reliable is it? What happpens when the database gets corrupted?", to which I really had no good answer... We have an ideal use for VSS (small team, IDE integration etc), but there are too many horror stories floating around to consider migrating all our code into VSS. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source control application that fits the following criteria:
- Cheap ;)
- Seamless integration into Visual Studio 6/2003 (One of the team is reluctant to use source control at all, so any cryptic command-line-only tools are definitely out)
- Reliable
- Suitable for 3-5 users
- Able to handle a large number of small projects in a single database.
- As unobtrusive as possible from a users standpoint.
Thanks.
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Absolutely, works as advertised. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
doWe use CVS with Tortoise and it's excellent, but there is also several alternatives for access directly from your different IDEs. But I do put my vote on Subversion (we will most probably migrate to it one day) which has some technical advantages over CVS (better support for binary files is one thing), and since Tortoise is available there too, your everyday life will be as smooth as with CVS. Please be kind to yourself and avoid Sourcesafe, just the fact that it locks files is reason enough. But rest assured that anything that you choose will be much better than nothing at all... Best regards, Mathias Wennergren Sweden
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Does anyone use Rational ClearCase? It was not quite cheap as for what I know. I have used it 2 years ago and the integration with Visual Studio was OK for me. Bye Nenad
My last organization used Clearcase, and it was brutal. It is almost like Clearcase has complexity for complexity's sake. After having used Perforce for four years, moving to Clearcase was constant annoyance and pain. I have changed jobs (for other reasons) and am back with Perforce, and the pain is gone. Here are some other devs' opinions on Clearcase. And Clearcase is expensive. Not just by dev seat, but also in support. The companies I know who use Clearcase always have at least one full-time Clearcase admin per product, if not two admins. Factor that into the cost! In contrast, Perforce just works, and there is no need for a full time admin; Perforce might require couple of hours a week of some dev's time, and that's it. Perforce is solid and easy to use, and in my experience devs rarely if ever need admin assistance. That is a huge cost saving. So who buys Clearcase? Middle managers at big companies do, because they get sold a bill of goods by slick/highly paid IBM sales people. And big companies like to buy from big companies. The mentality: nobody ever got fired for buy Clearcase (sadly). In summary, please do yourself and your organization a favor: avoid Clearcase, and take a long look at Perforce.