Career Question
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Always, always, always go to the source. Talk with the PM and see what happened. The mistake on your part was not being assertive. It was mentioned to you, it was discussed with you all in the past. When the opportunity was there you didn't step up and say I'm ready I want this. That might be what killed you. Never forget that lesson. Now be direct and assertive and see how things go. Be positive and up-beat. Show a lot of interest and can-do and see where it leads.
A Plain English signature. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
I'll have to memorise this post :) regards, Mircea Many people spend their life going to sleep when they’re not sleepy and waking up while they still are.
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k)
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that :mad:
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
You make 70k and have only been programming for 3 years? Where do you live, California? :omg: Jeremy Falcon
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You make 70k and have only been programming for 3 years? Where do you live, California? :omg: Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You make 70k and have only been programming for 3 years? Where do you live, California?
He's in Dallas. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k)
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that :mad:
LOL. I was just thinking that. I've been coding since 1994 and I only tend to make ~60K/year. Time to improve my marketing skills I guess. Jeremy Falcon
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dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k)
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that :mad:
computerguru92382 wrote:
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that
That's not a good thing I guess - in his case, he's showing initiative, expecting a high salary and making it (or close to it). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
I very strongly believe that a Senior Developer must have at least 7 years actual design and development experience, preferably 10. It isn't a matter of just working hard or extra hours, but years of on-the-job experience learning what works and what doesn't. (I also have a problem with developers who move into management for several years and when they move back into development expect to be made senior engineers based on years of work experience, not years of development work experience. [At the risk of offending some people here, I've found that most, but not all, such developers are a royal pain the ass.]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Always, always, always go to the source. Talk with the PM and see what happened. The mistake on your part was not being assertive. It was mentioned to you, it was discussed with you all in the past. When the opportunity was there you didn't step up and say I'm ready I want this. That might be what killed you. Never forget that lesson. Now be direct and assertive and see how things go. Be positive and up-beat. Show a lot of interest and can-do and see where it leads.
A Plain English signature. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
Well put. Sometimes you have to grab life by the balls and run with it. Jeremy Falcon
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dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
I am in Dallas, TX. I was hoping for something closer to 80k/yr (which would have still been a drop from what I was making as a contractor).
Thanks. But as a fulltimer, you get extra stuff like medical care, annual leave etc. I guess. Though I wonder if that'd add up enough to justify a 10K drop in income. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Though I wonder if that'd add up enough to justify a 10K drop in income.
A "good" benefits package would be. Medical, dental, vision, 401(k) match, school reimbursement, holidays, vacation, sick leave. It all depends on the package, though, and how much you would use of it. If you don't use 401(k) then the match % benefit doesn't do you any good. If you never go back to school, the school reimbursement program also doesn't help. etc. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You make 70k and have only been programming for 3 years? Where do you live, California?
He's in Dallas. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
He's in Dallas.
Not too much more expesive to live there than here. Still the south so I wouldn't be a yankee. I already have one friend over there. Hmmm. ;) Jeremy Falcon
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
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Well put. Sometimes you have to grab life by the balls and run with it. Jeremy Falcon
:laugh: regards, Mircea Many people spend their life going to sleep when they’re not sleepy and waking up while they still are.
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dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k)
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that :mad:
computerguru92382 wrote:
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that
Salary "worth" is of course relative to the location in which you live and the cost of living, so hard to compare just numbers unless you too work in Dallas. But yeah... that is a darn good salary for here too. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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computerguru92382 wrote:
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that
That's not a good thing I guess - in his case, he's showing initiative, expecting a high salary and making it (or close to it). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!And I am about to graduate with a Master's in Computer Sci with 10+ years IT experience. Cannot attract anyone's attention for a good paying job (by my standard right now, would be 50K+/yr) and he is having an issue about 70k? Sounds like someone needs to thank God they have a good job :)
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computerguru92382 wrote:
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that
Salary "worth" is of course relative to the location in which you live and the cost of living, so hard to compare just numbers unless you too work in Dallas. But yeah... that is a darn good salary for here too. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
that is a darn good salary for here too
I live in a rural area about an hour and a half outside of LA and people in this area would kill for a job that pays 70K/yr :) -- modified at 17:25 Monday 13th March, 2006
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Though I wonder if that'd add up enough to justify a 10K drop in income.
A "good" benefits package would be. Medical, dental, vision, 401(k) match, school reimbursement, holidays, vacation, sick leave. It all depends on the package, though, and how much you would use of it. If you don't use 401(k) then the match % benefit doesn't do you any good. If you never go back to school, the school reimbursement program also doesn't help. etc. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
A "good" benefits package would be. Medical, dental, vision, 401(k) match, school reimbursement, holidays, vacation, sick leave. It all depends on the package, though, and how much you would use of it. If you don't use 401(k) then the match % benefit doesn't do you any good. If you never go back to school, the school reimbursement program also doesn't help. etc.
Thanks Jeffry. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
Any opinions?
$70K after three years, geez... Care to share some career advice? Whatever it is you've been doing, stick with it... ;)
Now taking suggestions for the next release of CPhog...
Shog9 wrote:
$70K after three years, geez... Care to share some career advice? Whatever it is you've been doing, stick with it...
Actually 2.5 years :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
Any opinions?
Welcome to the real world of work. Managers will make all kinds of promises like this and then forget all about them at crunch time. Of course, the best way to deal with this is to talk to your manager. Ask if you were considered for the post and if not, why not. Keep the lines of communication open. Perhaps they thought you weren't ready for a senior position. I learnt the hard way at that age, that I wasn't ready. You've obviously worked hard, probably too hard. You sound like you've made the same mistakes all us young, idealist developers make. Working your ass off for no real extra reward. To quote the cliche, perhaps you need to be working smarter not harder. Putting those kind of hours in, is really bad. If you are working those hours to achieve a deadline, then your project is in trouble. A standard 40 hour week should be enough to get a well run project completed on time. Sure, the occasional bit of extra work will always be needed but it should be the exception rather than the rule. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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And I am about to graduate with a Master's in Computer Sci with 10+ years IT experience. Cannot attract anyone's attention for a good paying job (by my standard right now, would be 50K+/yr) and he is having an issue about 70k? Sounds like someone needs to thank God they have a good job :)
computerguru92382 wrote:
needs to thank God they have a good jog
Hell yeah! Nothing like a good jog in the morning. ;P [edit] Ordering is messed up again. [/edit] Jeremy Falcon
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dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k)
What is the problem? Many of us would be happy to make that :mad:
eh, in the US? not really.