VS vs Eclipse
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
I inherited a Java project for a consulting gig and gave Eclipse a fair try. Oh lord was it bad...I totally concur. Maybe I'm just too used to VS, but I was really put off by its sluggishness, especially auto-complete which I found basically useless (not popping up until several seconds after asking for it :P).
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: How 'bout a little guitar now? The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
I've been working with Sun's Java Studio turd - based off an old version of NetBeans - and have become more and more thoroughly disgusted each morning I start the damn thing up. I made the mistake of deploying a full enterprise app to its development EJB container, also on my machine, and had to kill a few instances of java.exe ten minutes later after they had managed to suck up well over a gig of RAM on my 'puny' developer machine (P4 1.7, 1G ram). I'm hopeful that WSAD is at least better than this. From what I've used of Eclipse 3.x, I have high hopes. There are some things in it that I think they did extremely well - I love the 'perspectives' the IDE offers. I only wish VS.NET had a comparable offerring. As you mentioned, the refactoring is also excellent. And I think the single best thing that Eclipse has is that it's such an extendable platform to begin with. MS has a lot of spit-polish work to do on the docs and availability of the VSIP to get anywhere near Eclipse on that front. I do miss having Intellisense appear around the same time that I hit '.', though... :(
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I've been working with Sun's Java Studio turd - based off an old version of NetBeans - and have become more and more thoroughly disgusted each morning I start the damn thing up. I made the mistake of deploying a full enterprise app to its development EJB container, also on my machine, and had to kill a few instances of java.exe ten minutes later after they had managed to suck up well over a gig of RAM on my 'puny' developer machine (P4 1.7, 1G ram). I'm hopeful that WSAD is at least better than this. From what I've used of Eclipse 3.x, I have high hopes. There are some things in it that I think they did extremely well - I love the 'perspectives' the IDE offers. I only wish VS.NET had a comparable offerring. As you mentioned, the refactoring is also excellent. And I think the single best thing that Eclipse has is that it's such an extendable platform to begin with. MS has a lot of spit-polish work to do on the docs and availability of the VSIP to get anywhere near Eclipse on that front. I do miss having Intellisense appear around the same time that I hit '.', though... :(
Russell Morris wrote:
I'm hopeful that WSAD is at least better than this.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :sigh: Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Try codeblocks[^] and see what you think.
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
If I had never used Visual Studio I would be quite fine with Eclipse. It is a decent tool and at least for the Ruby on Rails work I do with RadRails (built on Eclipse) it is the best out there. Sadly I have used Visual Studio and have been spoilt rotten. Microsoft do know how to make developer tools if nothing else. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317[^]
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
Eclipse is in a totally different league compared to VS? *snort* I'm using WSAD (which is built on top of Eclipse) and it's a PITA to work with. X| The only edge Eclipse/WSAD had over VS was excellent support for refactoring, which MS brought into VS 2005. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Even the Java guys where I work won't touch eclipse.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
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Even the Java guys where I work won't touch eclipse.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
Funny that, I know some guy who swears only by eclips and can't stand VS... curious.... And he know both....
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Funny that, I know some guy who swears only by eclips and can't stand VS... curious.... And he know both....
Well it is clear that Madhu Siddalingaiah only saw screenshots of VS and never actually used it. Lack of documentation and lacks code completion? Oh come on. -------------------------------------------------------- My development blog Q:What does the derived class in C# tell to it's parent? A:All your base are belong to us!
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Funny that, I know some guy who swears only by eclips and can't stand VS... curious.... And he know both....
I would also think that Eclipse is the better IDE. I have worked with it for a year. Now I have to work with VS2005 which is also nice, especially the GUI editor works fine. But I miss some refactoring things and other utilities (e.g. in Eclispe you can select one variable and all other occurences are highlighted as well. One little advantage). But also Eclispe is so flexible. You can even use Eclipse as a framework for your own application. I don't see any usability limitations. I have already seen a map application with Eclipse. And last but not least it is Open Source. With all its advantages. I guess you can even say VS is much inspired by Eclipse. MS products are often a step behind. VS is not a revolution nor a big innovation. It has some nice parts. But I would prefer Eclipse if I could choose. However, you cannot expect much appreciation on the codeproject site. That is quite logical.
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I would also think that Eclipse is the better IDE. I have worked with it for a year. Now I have to work with VS2005 which is also nice, especially the GUI editor works fine. But I miss some refactoring things and other utilities (e.g. in Eclispe you can select one variable and all other occurences are highlighted as well. One little advantage). But also Eclispe is so flexible. You can even use Eclipse as a framework for your own application. I don't see any usability limitations. I have already seen a map application with Eclipse. And last but not least it is Open Source. With all its advantages. I guess you can even say VS is much inspired by Eclipse. MS products are often a step behind. VS is not a revolution nor a big innovation. It has some nice parts. But I would prefer Eclipse if I could choose. However, you cannot expect much appreciation on the codeproject site. That is quite logical.
I am just wondering... The once who complain about the refactoring in VS.Net. Have you used some add-on tools like Refactor which provides you some refactoring features like changing the name of the variable or function, enter the predesigned pieces of code? What is your feeling about this one? ------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
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I am just wondering... The once who complain about the refactoring in VS.Net. Have you used some add-on tools like Refactor which provides you some refactoring features like changing the name of the variable or function, enter the predesigned pieces of code? What is your feeling about this one? ------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
Koszyk wrote:
Have you used some add-on tools like Refactor
I use VS 2003 with Jetbrains Resharper and have been for well over 18 months. The resharper refactoring tools are excellent, it also has extended intellisense and vastly improved syntax highlighting. The other thing it does very well is let you know if you have variables declared but not initialised or initialised but never used. It does this by displaying orange markers next to the scroll bar. If it detects a line that is incomplete, eg missing a semicolon in C#, it displays a red marker. I was told Microsoft actually bought resharper from jetbrains to put into VS2005, from what I have seen of VS2005, and I admit that I haven't used it much, a lot of the things I use regularly have been removed or buried so deep as to be too much hassle to use. I also love the keyboard shortcuts provided by resharper. For example, highlight some code, press ctrl + alt + j which provides a shortcut menu for surround with. If I then hit 1 I get an if block, 2 I get a while block, 3 I get a for block, 6 I get a #region surround, you get the idea. It also provides a custom stack trace with hyperlinks to the areas of code listed. Resharper Details Here FYI I am in no way affiliated with Jetbrains, I just find this product makes my life as a developer much easier. Jason Brown C# Developer
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I would also think that Eclipse is the better IDE. I have worked with it for a year. Now I have to work with VS2005 which is also nice, especially the GUI editor works fine. But I miss some refactoring things and other utilities (e.g. in Eclispe you can select one variable and all other occurences are highlighted as well. One little advantage). But also Eclispe is so flexible. You can even use Eclipse as a framework for your own application. I don't see any usability limitations. I have already seen a map application with Eclipse. And last but not least it is Open Source. With all its advantages. I guess you can even say VS is much inspired by Eclipse. MS products are often a step behind. VS is not a revolution nor a big innovation. It has some nice parts. But I would prefer Eclipse if I could choose. However, you cannot expect much appreciation on the codeproject site. That is quite logical.
Sorry buddy but VS has been around a lot longer than Eclipse. I would say Eclipse got a lot from VS. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Sorry buddy but VS has been around a lot longer than Eclipse. I would say Eclipse got a lot from VS. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
It is not a question of who have been around longer than the other. Visual Studio is a brutal development tools. I have been working in several for year and Visual Studio is probably the most effective. The debugging features are better than any other. In term of functionality, I am afraid I don't think Microsoft are leading edge. The Form designer particularly was really bad until lately. What I still can't stand in Visual Studio is their way to open the form designer and source in two different tabs. I prefer by far the way Delphi does it. -- modified at 5:07 Thursday 6th April, 2006
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Koszyk wrote:
Have you used some add-on tools like Refactor
I use VS 2003 with Jetbrains Resharper and have been for well over 18 months. The resharper refactoring tools are excellent, it also has extended intellisense and vastly improved syntax highlighting. The other thing it does very well is let you know if you have variables declared but not initialised or initialised but never used. It does this by displaying orange markers next to the scroll bar. If it detects a line that is incomplete, eg missing a semicolon in C#, it displays a red marker. I was told Microsoft actually bought resharper from jetbrains to put into VS2005, from what I have seen of VS2005, and I admit that I haven't used it much, a lot of the things I use regularly have been removed or buried so deep as to be too much hassle to use. I also love the keyboard shortcuts provided by resharper. For example, highlight some code, press ctrl + alt + j which provides a shortcut menu for surround with. If I then hit 1 I get an if block, 2 I get a while block, 3 I get a for block, 6 I get a #region surround, you get the idea. It also provides a custom stack trace with hyperlinks to the areas of code listed. Resharper Details Here FYI I am in no way affiliated with Jetbrains, I just find this product makes my life as a developer much easier. Jason Brown C# Developer
He he... By Refactor in C# I actually meant the ReSharper. I am using it quite extensively with the whole team and after a few months it became our good friend. The life without it would be gray. My best one is "search usage of" thing. :cool: I also heard that MS bougth it and implemented in VS2K5, but it seems like just some basic things are incorporated, so probably we and you will want to install ReSharper over V2K5 anyway. :laugh: This is how they seem to do a business. You have it for free, but you want buy it :) My main question however was... From opinions it sounds like Eclipse env. is great about refactoring and I am just wondering... Is it better than VS.Net empowered by ReSharper? I also had some time ago a talk with friend of mine who admired Ecylpse because of ready templates of the solution; something like Action Blocks in MS. How better is it from Action Blocks? I actually tried to used them in my projects twice, but no luck till now. The cost of learning it was too big comparing to benefits. They are however grate for C# training and teaching/learning good practices. Discussion seems to show like a death match between Ecylipse and VS.Net is killing Java world. Bright side of the world! Show us where you are better, huh? ------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
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He he... By Refactor in C# I actually meant the ReSharper. I am using it quite extensively with the whole team and after a few months it became our good friend. The life without it would be gray. My best one is "search usage of" thing. :cool: I also heard that MS bougth it and implemented in VS2K5, but it seems like just some basic things are incorporated, so probably we and you will want to install ReSharper over V2K5 anyway. :laugh: This is how they seem to do a business. You have it for free, but you want buy it :) My main question however was... From opinions it sounds like Eclipse env. is great about refactoring and I am just wondering... Is it better than VS.Net empowered by ReSharper? I also had some time ago a talk with friend of mine who admired Ecylpse because of ready templates of the solution; something like Action Blocks in MS. How better is it from Action Blocks? I actually tried to used them in my projects twice, but no luck till now. The cost of learning it was too big comparing to benefits. They are however grate for C# training and teaching/learning good practices. Discussion seems to show like a death match between Ecylipse and VS.Net is killing Java world. Bright side of the world! Show us where you are better, huh? ------------------------- Adam Koszlajda
Okay, ReSharper is fine. Unfortunately it works only with c#, not with vb what I'm using. So I have never used it. The free Refactor add-in from devexpress is the tool I use. About this tool I can only say that has some nice visual effects but it doesn't do much. And some operations seems to be very slow - I'm faster if I do it myself. I miss some things like extract-to (and create) base class or other things. What also would be nice is to move a string to the resources by shortcut, so I don't have to switch all the time. However, maybe it's not so easy to compare two IDEs that are built for different kind of frameworks. I guess both, the IDEs and the frameworks, will still be present for next couple of years. Non of them will disappear. And I guess you can work with both very well. And also, we should be glad if we have different tools and techniques, so we get more ideas and innovations. I could imagine: There would be no .NET if there has never been Java. And Java would have never exist if there was no disadvantages with the C/C++-thing. And so on. I assume that if there would only be VS on our world and no competitor than we would be still have VS 1 (maybe with service pack 57). -- modified at 7:55 Thursday 6th April, 2006
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Sorry buddy but VS has been around a lot longer than Eclipse. I would say Eclipse got a lot from VS. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Sorry buddy too, Java also exists longer than .NET. Unix exists longer than windows, IE was not the first browser. And so on. Many things are not invented by MS. But of course there is always something that is older than something other. Maybe in earlier days VS was a new and good kind of IDE (I don't know). But now they are running behind. And notice the bugs in VS, the crashes and the bad performance (maybe not all get them but I do). VS2005 needs a SP from the beginning. You have less of those problems with Eclipse. Another interesting thing: Look at the amount of add-ins you can get for Ecplipse (> 1000): http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/plugins.jsp?category=All Don't underestimate Eclipse.
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Sorry buddy too, Java also exists longer than .NET. Unix exists longer than windows, IE was not the first browser. And so on. Many things are not invented by MS. But of course there is always something that is older than something other. Maybe in earlier days VS was a new and good kind of IDE (I don't know). But now they are running behind. And notice the bugs in VS, the crashes and the bad performance (maybe not all get them but I do). VS2005 needs a SP from the beginning. You have less of those problems with Eclipse. Another interesting thing: Look at the amount of add-ins you can get for Ecplipse (> 1000): http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/plugins.jsp?category=All Don't underestimate Eclipse.
ismirwurscht wrote:
Java also exists longer than .NET
What has that to do with Eclipse and Visual Studio? Do you develop .NET or C++ apps in Eclipse? If not then why are we arguing? There have been IDEs before Visual Studio (1997) and Eclipse (2000?) so obviously they learn things from the predesecors. All I know is that for .NET, at the very least, that VS is a very good IDE. I wouldn't develop Java apps in VS. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Well it is clear that Madhu Siddalingaiah only saw screenshots of VS and never actually used it. Lack of documentation and lacks code completion? Oh come on. -------------------------------------------------------- My development blog Q:What does the derived class in C# tell to it's parent? A:All your base are belong to us!
> Q:What does the derived class in C# tell to it's parent? > A:All your base are belong to us! Actually it's the other way around, all the derived class's "base" (methods, properties, etc.) - belongs to the base class :rolleyes: Hence: "Q:What does the base class in C# tell to it's derived class? A:All your base are belong to us!" And another along the same lines: "how do object-oriented programmers get rich..?" ... they inherit...! :laugh: - Jakob Three kinds of people in the world: - Those who can count.. - Those who can't!
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> Q:What does the derived class in C# tell to it's parent? > A:All your base are belong to us! Actually it's the other way around, all the derived class's "base" (methods, properties, etc.) - belongs to the base class :rolleyes: Hence: "Q:What does the base class in C# tell to it's derived class? A:All your base are belong to us!" And another along the same lines: "how do object-oriented programmers get rich..?" ... they inherit...! :laugh: - Jakob Three kinds of people in the world: - Those who can count.. - Those who can't!
Well actually it is not... you can't call a derived class's method from a base class... -------------------------------------------------------- My development blog Q:What does the derived class in C# tell to it's parent? A:All your base are belong to us!