Compiler like effect.
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Thanks for the post. I agree completely. Notice my post makes no mention of degrees. That was not at all the point.
"What classes are you using ? You shouldn't call stuff if you have no idea what it does"
Christian Graus in the C# forumled mike
So in other words. We both missed each others point and still agree with each others comments. That's actually pretty darned funny.:laugh: It also exposes my tendency to over-engineer just about anything. You only need a nail remover. Just wait... I'll burn down four houses, permanently disfigure my thumb and piss off 100 neighbors. I'll deliver your nail remover... You'll look at it and say this does indeed remove nails. Wow it melts them to nothing... It's great but can you hand me that uh... curved metal bar over in my toolbox. The one with the forked end? Yeah, that's all I needed. But uh thanks for this other thing. It's neat. :laugh:
If we all used the Plain English compiler every post in the lounge would be a programming question.:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog. The act of using CPhog alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)
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Its Ok, I know I am still on A, B, C level of programming. But I am trying to become a good one . I dont have any formal software training or such just a self learner. But I have good ideas. May be stupid on your level but those might improve if I get into right direction Atleat you guys can guide me on how I may become one.. Any good books of software engineering.. how may my approach should be . Some basic software engineering things I must have to know? Thank you. Leya
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Osmo!!! Your back and touting your crap again!! Yay!!! Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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Hi, I want my MFC application to have own programming language. I dont want to get into too deep. For that I am thinking of .. 1. user will write his own code in a text file with specific extension. a.rto ----- #GetTextsInView(); #GetColorOfView(); #end 2. I can provide one executable (like compiler) with my application which I will run on command prompt. Leya_compile.exe a.rto 3. this exe file will read a.rto and create a binary file "a.run" and store the function name strings in it. 4. now in my mfc application user will select a.run from a file dialog. and it will read this binary file. (I want to keep function name strings with same length.) . When GetTextsInView string is read then in Doc's correspondind function will give all the texts in a list box or in some other format. When GetColorOfView is read it will show dialog with the color no. 5. So user may think like this application has its own programming language. 6. In a.rto these functions can be writtem in any order. but in mfc when read a.run the mfc should give the results in that order only. (procedural approach). What do you think of this. Do you have any other suggestion. Since this just wanted some suggestion it not the problem I directly faced so I thought of posting it here in lounge. Leya -- modified at 0:56 Tuesday 16th May, 2006
A lot of people here are trying to discourage you from your project. A few are trying to encourage you. I am of the encouraging kind. I was 16, the year was 1980, when I wrote an interpreter for a self-invented High-level version of BASIC. (It added nested multiline IFs and LOOPs, multiline Functions, and long variable names) I had read no compiler books at all, at that time. Two years later I wrote an assembler, for my dad, because he needed one. I did that in my spare time while sill in high school. So what you need is focus, and a lot of work. Make your language VERY small and simple. Also make sure that you carefully specify your language, then stick to that specification. Good Luck Adam :) _____________________________________ Action without thought is not action Action without emotion is not life
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Osmo!!! Your back and touting your crap again!! Yay!!! Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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I think he's winding you up. ;P Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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I think he's winding you up. ;P Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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- Every post you have ever made on this, or any other programming forum, has been to tout your product. Every post about your product which is not made by you is made by a "plant". I can find no real evidence of actual programmers using or evaluating your product. 2) I see no actual paid advertisements, technical peer-review or any other solid means of evaluating your product 3) The rubbish on your (excuse for a) website is laughable. (What our customers could be saying) 4) You insult real programmers at every given opportunity. I will find tonnes of examples if you need me to. 5) Plain Spanish, Plain Italian, Plain Catalan, Plain Klingon.... hoooo boy, you're just trying to enter a world of hurt! This is by far the wort idea I have ever read...and then some Having said that, and believe me there is more, the help you gave on this occasion was actually pretty good. It only contained a smidgeon of your usual tout-i-ness. You actually provided some useful information (for a change). Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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There's two examples right there! Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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I think he's winding you up. ;P Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I think he's winding you up.
No, no I wasnt. Osmosian was ridiculed off of forums like this and its a shame he has returned! Do a google search on the name and look through some forum posts. Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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I think he's winding you up. ;P Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer.
What does that say about C? Does it mean that a team of two developers ought to be sufficient? :rose:
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I suspect that you're biting off way more than you can chew here. I wrote an assembler 30 years ago, and that was lots easier than a compiler. But it still took all of my skill and a huge number of manhours to do. Compilers have to do many things that assemblers don't, and simply displaying the names of functions doesn't come close. How are you going to interpret the functions your users create in the a.rto file? Will you attempt to guess what they intend them to do and provide MFC equivalents? Or do you just plan to display what they entered and leave it at that? If you'd like to implement a user-definable language, take a look at the ancient and venerable language, FORTH. It was the first extensible language that allowed users to implement their own keywords and add them to the language syntax. Great tool, and it confused the heck out of programmers at the time.:laugh: "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Guys, Thanksssss a ton. Well thanks for the encouragement and reality check given to me on this forum. Let me tell you I am neither that dumb nor that super human. But let me tell you, I am not computer literate, I am not graduate , I am not english, my job was not fullfledge development. I was into other operations but I self lernt C , c++, vc++,SQL, VB, Pro*C, and now getting to MFC , C#, Due to constant pust to be a developer and applications I wrote, My boss moved me to the development. My company do not hire developers but I showed him the possibilities and applications and he was impresses. I have developed few good MFC applications for my company. I am the lone programmer in my office. I dont get any other help from the experienced developers. For a simple but confusing point, I have to search on net or read. Just a hint from some one can save you from wasting two days of nonstop research. You may refer my previous posts, many of them are so stupid because of this only. Those post may give you wrong idea about me and the applications I wrote specific to the technology my company masters in that by all alone. I am earning good salary in my company because of it. But I still see a long road ahead. I started late but some thrashing by some members before, I do not feel that I am old for anything. I am optimistic and want to be like you gurus. Probably it may take 10-15 years for me to reach there. But I think i am on the way.
How are you going to interpret the functions your users create in the a.rto file? Will you attempt to guess what they intend them to do and provide MFC equivalents?
Roger, As I said, I was just thinking how may I put such thing where user may write a code in a file , compile and make a binary file and run it in the application. I just developed a test application and just wanted to extend it for fun. So I thought whatever API name user may write, would be already coded in the MFC with some corresponding name or so. so if a.rto has following functions then a.rto ===== #GetTextsInView(); #GetColorOfView(); #end I may provide an executable to user with the application.. say.. compile.exe on command prompt.. he will write compile.exe a.rto compile will read a.rto with stream functions and would read function names and in a binary output file a.run would put those names. so I wanted to keep the names of the functions with same length for not to have offset lengh issue. Then in MFC, user will select the a.run file from say any interface d
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Guys, Thanksssss a ton. Well thanks for the encouragement and reality check given to me on this forum. Let me tell you I am neither that dumb nor that super human. But let me tell you, I am not computer literate, I am not graduate , I am not english, my job was not fullfledge development. I was into other operations but I self lernt C , c++, vc++,SQL, VB, Pro*C, and now getting to MFC , C#, Due to constant pust to be a developer and applications I wrote, My boss moved me to the development. My company do not hire developers but I showed him the possibilities and applications and he was impresses. I have developed few good MFC applications for my company. I am the lone programmer in my office. I dont get any other help from the experienced developers. For a simple but confusing point, I have to search on net or read. Just a hint from some one can save you from wasting two days of nonstop research. You may refer my previous posts, many of them are so stupid because of this only. Those post may give you wrong idea about me and the applications I wrote specific to the technology my company masters in that by all alone. I am earning good salary in my company because of it. But I still see a long road ahead. I started late but some thrashing by some members before, I do not feel that I am old for anything. I am optimistic and want to be like you gurus. Probably it may take 10-15 years for me to reach there. But I think i am on the way.
How are you going to interpret the functions your users create in the a.rto file? Will you attempt to guess what they intend them to do and provide MFC equivalents?
Roger, As I said, I was just thinking how may I put such thing where user may write a code in a file , compile and make a binary file and run it in the application. I just developed a test application and just wanted to extend it for fun. So I thought whatever API name user may write, would be already coded in the MFC with some corresponding name or so. so if a.rto has following functions then a.rto ===== #GetTextsInView(); #GetColorOfView(); #end I may provide an executable to user with the application.. say.. compile.exe on command prompt.. he will write compile.exe a.rto compile will read a.rto with stream functions and would read function names and in a binary output file a.run would put those names. so I wanted to keep the names of the functions with same length for not to have offset lengh issue. Then in MFC, user will select the a.run file from say any interface d
Ignore all the naysayers and just do what you want to do. Writing a compiler is NOT as hard as these people make it out to be. Most reputable graduate programs in Computer Science in the US make you write one if you want your MS in Computer Science. So long as you tightly specify your syntax, there is no reason why you won't or cannot succeed. After all, Bill Gates started out with a BASIC interpreter! :rose:
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The Osmosian Order wrote:
(2) "Writing Compilers and Interpreters" by Ronald Mak. A simplified "Dragon" book for people who think in "C".
That's actually a crappy book, as it doesn't really explain anything in detail. It's just a big listing of code. Sucks if you want to learn the very essence of what a compiler does. The Dragon book is not hopelessly out-of-date. It's still valid, although it doesn't cover everything there's to know. It's great as a text book for introductory and intermediate level compiler construction courses.
The Osmosian Order wrote:
forget about those who say writing compilers is hard
Writing compilers is hard. The theory behind compilers is hard to comprehend, and no programming language in the world will change that. Not even your pseudo programming language. Anybody can learn how to write a compiler. Few will ever master the art of writing a good compiler. -- 100% natural. No superstitious additives.
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Pluralis majestatis[^]? -- 100% natural. No superstitious additives.
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It answered my question "Should I stick with C++?". The answer was "YES!!!" ;P -- 100% natural. No superstitious additives.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I think he's winding you up.
No, no I wasnt. Osmosian was ridiculed off of forums like this and its a shame he has returned! Do a google search on the name and look through some forum posts. Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
Ah. I misread the tone of your post then! :doh: Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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The Osmosian Order wrote:
We know. We just find it hard to believe that "programmers", versed in the use of logic, can be so illogical - for example, passing judgement on a product they have never even sampled!
That may have something to do with the blatant hard sell you practiced when you first surfaced on the forums. You put peoples backs up, pure and simple.
The Osmosian Order wrote:
Agreed, except for the "well beyond" modifier. Our Plain English development system is "complete, efficient, useable and maintainable" and was written by just two people.
Anyone can write a small compiler (whether interactive or batch) - as the miriad of Small C compilers from 8 bit days will testify. However, providing a modern UI (with commonly expected features such as integrated context sensitive help, intellisense), an integrated debugger etc takes resources a small team would find hard to muster - particularly if the language and libraries being implemented are industry standard ons. Yours isn't, which gives you significantly more latitude. Given the type of product you are selling I suspect your support costs are lower than most as well.
Write us (help@osmosian.com) if you'd like to sample it.
Our speciality is UI intensive Visual Studio extensibility products, and I very much doubt "Plain English" is suited to such an environment (we use ATL7/WTL 7.5, which together offer everything we need in COM and UI support). That aside, our products are development tools for C/C++ developers, and as we have a policy of "dogfooding" them it's important they are written in the target language. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Actually I agree with you - writing compilers isn't hard (I dabbled in the subject myself long ago), but writing something complete, efficient, useable and maintainable - and providing the requisite support - requires resources and attention to detail well beyond the means of a single developer.
What does that say about C? Does it mean that a team of two developers ought to be sufficient? :rose:
Vivic wrote:
What does that say about C? Does it mean that a team of two developers ought to be sufficient?
C is a difficult language to implement (and C++ is even harder), but not impossible. However, as well as the compiler, debugger, linker and IDE you also have to write the standard libraries, which is a mammoth task in itself. A team of two could do it, but it might take them several years of full time work for no commercial return. To add to that anyone using a C or C++ compiler these days is likely to expect it to have a high degree of standards compliance. Given the struggle compilers such as MSVC and GCC have had to reach their current conformance, do you really think a team of two writing everything from scratch would have a hope? That's not to say such an exercise is not worthwhile, of course. Dabbling with compilers and linkers is a great way to learn how they work, and that in itself is fascinating (I did it myself long ago). Just don't expect to have a saleable product at the end... Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.