Public smoking becomes illegal in Toronto starting tomorrow
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It’s last call for smokers in Ontario[^] - Smitha
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Ontario gets my 5 vote :)
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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Exactly the same rhetoric was said in British Columbia (Canada) when they implemented smoke free several years ago. The end result.... Business went up. I used to not go into pubs at all because I'd come out selling like an ashtray. Now I go perhaps 30 times a year. Watch a local televised hockey game with friends over beer. Cheers. David
Orcrist wrote:
Watch a local televised hockey game with friends over beer.
...and what happens when some group decides to protest public consumption of alcohol? Will you support that ban as well? P.S. I don't smoke, but all these smoking bans make me nervous. :~ "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
when a smoker friend has offered one to me,
Smitha, I think you need some enquiry here ! :-D Surprised that you used to smoke(You look like a good boy:rolleyes:), happy that you quit it almost. And did you leave smoking out of compulsion by Smitha ?
--[V]--
VuNic wrote:
And did you leave smoking out of compulsion by Smitha ?
As long as he is just an occasional smoker, I don't have a problem. But it is most convenient that he has almost quit smoking. Cheers Smitha
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There were some non-smoking pubs in Scotland before our ban came into force. But most said that becoming non-smoking would kill their business. From what I see the pub I go to most often has increased its business since the ban came in. I guess these businesses are scared that they'll lose customers without realising that there are many more who'd like to be customers but the smoke puts them off.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I guess these businesses are scared that they'll lose customers without realising that there are many more who'd like to be customers but the smoke puts them off.
Hard to say. The big difference between (say) a diner and a pub is that the latter actually benefits from the sort of customer who shows up and then sits alone in the corner, drinking and smoking all evening. The town i live in now has a smoking ban in public places, but it doesn't seem to have hurt the business at bars and restaurants. The town i lived in previously didn't, and bars without smoking sections did poorly. Conclusion? Who knows... Maybe smoking is a small but valid selling point, or maybe there's just a difference in local cultures. I do know the casinos fight tooth-and-nail to be exempt from such laws though, so i suspect there's something to it.
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Orcrist wrote:
Watch a local televised hockey game with friends over beer.
...and what happens when some group decides to protest public consumption of alcohol? Will you support that ban as well? P.S. I don't smoke, but all these smoking bans make me nervous. :~ "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull
Not exactly the same thing. Kind of an apples and oranges comparison. A pubs business is predominantly selling beer and food to customers. Customers going into the pub are going into the pub for expressly that purpose. I dont go to a pub for a smoke. However smokers, rightly or wrongly (I'm not debating it), feel they have the right to impose the impact of their habit on others and on the staff that work in the establishment. Also the bartenders and waitresses in the pubs also deserve a safe working environment. You could argue that they know the risks going into the job, but so do miners and construction workers. Yet it is expected that the owners (and government) ensure that these workers still have as safe an environment to work in given the risks. Smoke in the workplace is a completely avoidable risk. And to answer your question... Ban alcohol in pubs or restaurants.. No (it is their business) Ban alcohol in public sporting events.. hell yes. Same premise. Cheers, David -- modified at 12:50 Tuesday 30th May, 2006
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Why not ban all disposal containers as well? People throw paper, cups, wrappers, and all kinds of other things on the ground. Since we can't enforce the litter laws, we should nip the problem in the bud and do away with anything else that could become trash. Same logic, isn't it? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightI forget where, but remember hearing about one town that levied a tax on disposable containers at fast food places. The money collected went to pay for litter collection surrounding the restaurants. Seems like a good idea to me... Beats a ban, but encourages restaurants to find alternate ways of serving their customers.
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I hope this catches on. I hate seeing cigarette butts everwhere I go.
Yeah. Encouraging people to smoke while driving is really gonna help that. Oh, wait... We have a smoking ban in effect here. I still see a lot of butts around. Especially in secluded nature walks and flying out of car windows. :sigh:
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Not exactly the same thing. Kind of an apples and oranges comparison. A pubs business is predominantly selling beer and food to customers. Customers going into the pub are going into the pub for expressly that purpose. I dont go to a pub for a smoke. However smokers, rightly or wrongly (I'm not debating it), feel they have the right to impose the impact of their habit on others and on the staff that work in the establishment. Also the bartenders and waitresses in the pubs also deserve a safe working environment. You could argue that they know the risks going into the job, but so do miners and construction workers. Yet it is expected that the owners (and government) ensure that these workers still have as safe an environment to work in given the risks. Smoke in the workplace is a completely avoidable risk. And to answer your question... Ban alcohol in pubs or restaurants.. No (it is their business) Ban alcohol in public sporting events.. hell yes. Same premise. Cheers, David -- modified at 12:50 Tuesday 30th May, 2006
Orcrist wrote:
Not exactly the same thing. Kind of an apples and oranges comparison.
True and all your points seem valid but it still worries me. :~ Many of the folks involved with these kinds of bans are like weeds. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Maybe they take the next step and ban cigarettes entirely based purely on health issues. Then nothing is safe. IMO we tread a slippery slope. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull
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Ontario gets my 5 vote :)
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
Would be nice if California cities would follow suit.
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It's impossible since most cops aren't standing next to smokers whever they're done with their cigarettes. Besides, a lot of smokers flick the butts from their car windows. I guess they can't stand the sight and smell of cigarettes in their car's ash tray.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I guess they can't stand the sight and smell of cigarettes in their car's ash tray
Or in my case, they don't care about the 100,000+ people living in a 600,000 acre National Forest with plenty of dry brush. PJC
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It’s last call for smokers in Ontario[^] - Smitha
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It's great to be alive at the dawn of this emerging Globally Enlightened Society. Now, if I can just get them to make everything that I personally dislike illegal, it'll be a free and just society for all. Well, you know, as long as everyone understands that what I want is more important than anyone else... Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!
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Would be nice if California cities would follow suit.
:confused: It's been illegal to smoke indoors in CA for years.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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It's great to be alive at the dawn of this emerging Globally Enlightened Society. Now, if I can just get them to make everything that I personally dislike illegal, it'll be a free and just society for all. Well, you know, as long as everyone understands that what I want is more important than anyone else... Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!
The difference between what you want and what people want in general is the difference between despotism and Democracy.
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Why not ban all disposal containers as well? People throw paper, cups, wrappers, and all kinds of other things on the ground. Since we can't enforce the litter laws, we should nip the problem in the bud and do away with anything else that could become trash. Same logic, isn't it? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightYou can't ban everything. Most people would get yelled at by others if they threw something obvious, like a soda can, on the ground. Unfortunately, a cigarette is much smaller and too common a problem to be put in the same category. Besides, the ban on cigarettes is mainly for the air we breath and the smell of our clothes. The added benefit of a cleaner landscape is secondary. Not quite the same logic after all.
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I forget where, but remember hearing about one town that levied a tax on disposable containers at fast food places. The money collected went to pay for litter collection surrounding the restaurants. Seems like a good idea to me... Beats a ban, but encourages restaurants to find alternate ways of serving their customers.
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That's a smart idea.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I guess they can't stand the sight and smell of cigarettes in their car's ash tray
Or in my case, they don't care about the 100,000+ people living in a 600,000 acre National Forest with plenty of dry brush. PJC
Ouch! :(
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The difference between what you want and what people want in general is the difference between despotism and Democracy.
Being an American I can't speak intelligently on the Canadian system of government, but American is not a democracy. In fact, it works very hard to make sure that democracy never happens. Why? Because democracy means "majority rules." America works very hard to protect the rights of minorities (not just racial minorities, but minorities of every conceivable type). In other words, in truly democratic system, minorities are, by definition, screwed. As for "what people want", how do you define that? Smokers want to be able to smoke. Non smokers don't want to be subjected to smoke. So who makes the rules? Neither. Elected officials do. Unless they break the law (and get caught, and actually get prosecuted) these officials are not accountable to anyone from the moment they take office. They're free to promise one thing on the campaign and then do completely the opposite once they take office. It's legal, and not at all uncommon. The only things that they respond to are ego, money, and their ability to get re-elected. "The will of the people" isn't a frequent flyer on their radar, unless it falls into one of these three categories. For the record, I don't smoke, and would prefer not to inhale it from someone else. However, in my youth I smoked three packs a day, so I can see both sides to this issue. My concern is that the current trend in my own country is leaning more and more towards a "zero tolerance" (i.e. intolerant) state of mind and a legislation happy environment in which to enforce these convictions. If you can stir up a little public sentiment on an issue that might effect election day, then you, too, have a good chance of making ensuring that "everything I dislike should be illegal." What people want in general is not a factor. Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!
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No! :-D He almost quit smoking! Cheers Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
He almost quit smoking!
Is that anything like the infamous "almost pregnant?" _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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:confused: It's been illegal to smoke indoors in CA for years.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
Michael Dunn wrote:
It's been illegal to smoke indoors in CA for years.
Indoors as in Public-indoors, right? When I was in Mt View, people used to smoke in the streets all the time. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. -
Being an American I can't speak intelligently on the Canadian system of government, but American is not a democracy. In fact, it works very hard to make sure that democracy never happens. Why? Because democracy means "majority rules." America works very hard to protect the rights of minorities (not just racial minorities, but minorities of every conceivable type). In other words, in truly democratic system, minorities are, by definition, screwed. As for "what people want", how do you define that? Smokers want to be able to smoke. Non smokers don't want to be subjected to smoke. So who makes the rules? Neither. Elected officials do. Unless they break the law (and get caught, and actually get prosecuted) these officials are not accountable to anyone from the moment they take office. They're free to promise one thing on the campaign and then do completely the opposite once they take office. It's legal, and not at all uncommon. The only things that they respond to are ego, money, and their ability to get re-elected. "The will of the people" isn't a frequent flyer on their radar, unless it falls into one of these three categories. For the record, I don't smoke, and would prefer not to inhale it from someone else. However, in my youth I smoked three packs a day, so I can see both sides to this issue. My concern is that the current trend in my own country is leaning more and more towards a "zero tolerance" (i.e. intolerant) state of mind and a legislation happy environment in which to enforce these convictions. If you can stir up a little public sentiment on an issue that might effect election day, then you, too, have a good chance of making ensuring that "everything I dislike should be illegal." What people want in general is not a factor. Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
In other words, in truly democratic system, minorities are, by definition, screwed.
Interesting point, and one I hadn't really thought of before. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications.