Faster than light universe?
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I don't think there is anyway currently to measure the existence of gravitons, nevermind trying to determine if they cross universal boundaries. I have no clue how they plan to figure it out either. The idea behind them, I think, is that they are can be closed strings which can leave the "surface" of the universe, called a brane, and travel to other branes. Open strings attach themselves to the brane thereby remaining within a single universe. I might have that wrong, it's all very new to me and a bit fantastic really.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
I don't think there is anyway currently to measure the existence of gravitons, nevermind trying to determine if they cross universal boundaries. I have no clue how they plan to figure it out either.
We're a looooong way from detecting a single graviton, we've yet to detect even the strongest gravity waves that should be passing through our planet. LIGO has proved thier nonpresence down to a contraction/expansion of 10^-20, the current science run is going at the design level of 10^-22, which is the equilant of changing the sun-saturn distance by the diameter of a hydrogen atom. A run carried out at an intermediate sensitivity is undergoing final analysis now (The brute force crunching part was completed about a month ago).
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Bosonic hyperspace of 26 dimensions suffers the problems of tachyon particles with imaginary mass.
but what about the warp drives ?
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I always preferred the gravity drive from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_series[^].
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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There is no beyond. or Cheese curds and beer.
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We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Because if the radius of the universe is 90 billion light years but the universe is less than 20 billion years old, then you have to play some games with the term "year" to make the math work.
Ah, lessoned learned. I shouldn't talk astrophysics while my girlfriend is calling me to go get my food at the same time. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
Doesn't the fact that you have a girlfriend pretty much disqualify you from being a physicist in the first place? :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Isn't there a theory that gravitrons or something can jump between universes?
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightFrom what I've read that sounds like some of the brane theories. We live on a 4 dimensional brane in a higher dimensional universe. Most particles we encounter are constrained to the brane and gravity works in the entire multidemnsional space. This is one way to explain why gravity is so weak and we have particles with the masses and interactions that we observe.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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There is no beyond. or Cheese curds and beer.
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Shog9 wrote:
Cheese curds
<homer drool>ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh</homer drool> Can you get them where you are? I've only seen them in Cheeseland growing up they were one of my favorite childhood treats.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist;) I was kinda hoping someone else would join in.
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It all shows that you need to plan and document, plan and document before you start thinking you can just slap together 26 dimensions and assume it'll all work. Imaginary mass for tachyon particles? Can you say "kludge"? :rolleyes:
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Actually from what I've read, they've found a solution to that problem. I can't remember the details, but I think it involved dual strings. Esentially they were using a bad perterbation. Some of the latest non-string theories can shoehorn all the particles into a 4 dimensional subspace of a 5 dimensional space with exponentially increasing gravity in the 5th dimension. It sounds completely artificial but it does produce a solution with the big gap between the weak and strong scales.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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One of my favorite notions is that science is more philosophy than fact. I mean come on... do we really think that with our limited brain pans that we can accurately calculate the beginning of this space and time we find ourselves in? Fun excercise and may uncover quite a bit of relevant information and useful data, but really, again, we're guessing. I'm fascinated by it though. Taking a look at the assumed view of the grand universe, our own milky way is like a gnat in comparison. When you get to the level of clusters of clusters of galaxies... all of my problems seem pretty insignificant indeed. I think that as science evolves this data will keep changing. As our understanding and technique improves so will the data, but I wonder if we can come up with the correct numbers and if it even matters. But the old number was 14 billion years. Side note: There's a book I'm reading called Programming the Universe[^]. Some very provacative ideas here. Maybe when the quantum computer is optimized it will tell us that we can't know the age or size of the universe as that data itself changes along with our ability to digest the details.
This statement is false.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Side note: There's a book I'm reading called Programming the Universe[^].
I just finished it. It was pretty good, I was hoping for a little more meat to the book but it was interesting.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Maybe when the quantum computer is optimized it will tell us that we can't know the age or size of the universe as that data itself changes along with our ability to digest the details.
What I got from it was that the universe is a quantum computer and the only quantum computer that can actually predict it has to be the same size or bigger.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
One of my favorite notions is that science is more philosophy than fact.
I'm not sure I follow. Science is guided by philosopy. The scientific method is essentially based on philosopy. The only question about the facts discovered by science are the error bars. For some things we know them down to 9 or 10 digits others not even one, but generally we keep learning.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Shog9 wrote:
Cheese curds
<homer drool>ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh</homer drool> Can you get them where you are? I've only seen them in Cheeseland growing up they were one of my favorite childhood treats.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
Andy Brummer wrote:
Can you get them where you are?
Not proper ones. Colorado just isn't big on cheese the way Wisconsin is. Then again, it's also tough finding good beer and sausage here, even though there are lots of brewers and butchers. I suspect i don't quite "get" the local taste.
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Exactly :) Relativity says that information cannot travel than the speed of light, it says nothing about objects travelling faster than the speed of light (as far as I can remember from my college days). If there are any object that travel faster than the speed of light, we have no way of sensing that they are actually doing so. So it is perfectly plausible to think of a universe that is wider than ~31 light years. Nicola
That's not what Jörgen said at all. Space is expanding which is a completely different process then an object moving through space. What you are talking about are some types of (wave/particle) do have speeds greater then c, but the information/energy carried by the wave is carried by relationships between those waves. Those relationships are limited by c.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Side note: There's a book I'm reading called Programming the Universe[^].
I just finished it. It was pretty good, I was hoping for a little more meat to the book but it was interesting.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Maybe when the quantum computer is optimized it will tell us that we can't know the age or size of the universe as that data itself changes along with our ability to digest the details.
What I got from it was that the universe is a quantum computer and the only quantum computer that can actually predict it has to be the same size or bigger.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
One of my favorite notions is that science is more philosophy than fact.
I'm not sure I follow. Science is guided by philosopy. The scientific method is essentially based on philosopy. The only question about the facts discovered by science are the error bars. For some things we know them down to 9 or 10 digits others not even one, but generally we keep learning.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
Andy Brummer wrote:
I just finished it. It was pretty good, I was hoping for a little more meat to the book but it was interesting.
Yeah, I'm about halfway through. And I already think its too small.
Andy Brummer wrote:
What I got from it was that the universe is a quantum computer and the only quantum computer that can actually predict it has to be the same size or bigger.
I guess what I'm interested in is the notion that we can affect our reality and contribute to the calculations. But this seems to be a function of Quantum Mechanics in general, if the universe is what's being observed, then the observation would affect it, but to what degree? There's competing expectations that suggest some interesting potential results.
Andy Brummer wrote:
I'm not sure I follow.
Just a notion. Any facts can disappear as the method gets more accurate. What is truth one day is a lie on another. Or rather, truth changes with time and space. Its a moving target. Along the lines of "You can't examine life by killing it."
This statement is false.
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Andy Brummer wrote:
I just finished it. It was pretty good, I was hoping for a little more meat to the book but it was interesting.
Yeah, I'm about halfway through. And I already think its too small.
Andy Brummer wrote:
What I got from it was that the universe is a quantum computer and the only quantum computer that can actually predict it has to be the same size or bigger.
I guess what I'm interested in is the notion that we can affect our reality and contribute to the calculations. But this seems to be a function of Quantum Mechanics in general, if the universe is what's being observed, then the observation would affect it, but to what degree? There's competing expectations that suggest some interesting potential results.
Andy Brummer wrote:
I'm not sure I follow.
Just a notion. Any facts can disappear as the method gets more accurate. What is truth one day is a lie on another. Or rather, truth changes with time and space. Its a moving target. Along the lines of "You can't examine life by killing it."
This statement is false.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
But this seems to be a function of Quantum Mechanics in general, if the universe is what's being observed, then the observation would affect it, but to what degree?
If you took 1000 philosophers and gave then 1000 years they wouldn't come up with anything as strange as quantum mechanics. Essentially there are 2 sets of equations governing time evolution in quantum mechanics. Unobserved mode and observed mode. The problem is that in traditional quantum mechanics the observed mode is a hack that physicists added just to make sense of the way things work. It is where the multiple worlds and all the metaphysical crap comes from. Without the observed mode quantum mechanics is a wave theory just like electromagnetism. Nobody is exactly sure what causes a transition between the 2 modes but if you put enough stuff vibrating randomly together it behaves in observed mode. One active research area is to find the biggest system that we can make behave quantum mechanically. I think the record is a C60 molecule. I believe the author mentions plans to try and send bacteria through a double slit and get them to interfere.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Just a notion. Any facts can disappear as the method gets more accurate. What is truth one day is a lie on another. Or rather, truth changes with time and space.
The observed world never really changes. All that changes is the mathematical model that we use to approximate it. A lot of problem arise from people getting that model confused with something called the truth.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Doesn't the fact that you have a girlfriend pretty much disqualify you from being a physicist in the first place? :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
I thought that was a programmer. Eh, I'm screwed (or not screwed depending on your perspective) either way.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Doesn't the fact that you have a girlfriend pretty much disqualify you from being a physicist in the first place? :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Doesn't the fact that you have a girlfriend pretty much disqualify you from being a physicist in the first place?
Well, Einstein had several mistresses, so as I see it I have some catching up to do. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
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You have to stop thinking that the universe is like a big room that, somehow, is inside something else. It's not. It *is* the "something else". You can give youself a very bad headache thinking about this.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
You have to stop thinking that the universe is like a big room that, somehow, is inside something else. It's not. It *is* the "something else".
True, but it could be both and we don't know it. Olbers's paradox[^] was one of those that people believed to be true, until it was resolved. Although I prefer the alternate theory.
Chris Maunder wrote:
You can give youself a very bad headache thinking about this.
Indeed. That's where faith comes in. Personally, I have the faith, but don't mind the headache.
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them." - Anonymous Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn
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And many a mathematician has contemplating infinities and infinity of infinities and the sets of infinities.. My infinity is bigger than your infinity.
This statement is false.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
You have to stop thinking that the universe is like a big room that, somehow, is inside something else. It's not. It *is* the "something else".
True, but it could be both and we don't know it. Olbers's paradox[^] was one of those that people believed to be true, until it was resolved. Although I prefer the alternate theory.
Chris Maunder wrote:
You can give youself a very bad headache thinking about this.
Indeed. That's where faith comes in. Personally, I have the faith, but don't mind the headache.
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them." - Anonymous Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Although I prefer the alternate theory.
Is that the fractal one?
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Although I prefer the alternate theory.
Is that the fractal one?
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
Yeah. God and the universe are mysterious things. Anything is possible. Hell (figuratively speaking of course), if you try to think what the smallest molecular object is, your brain will explode.
There are II kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who understand Roman numerals. Web - Blog - RSS - Math