Mental prowess
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I understand your philosophy and it certainly adds up but I find "your lack of faith in the force disturbing". Not to wax philosophic but there's just tons of holes here. If you didn't wear a seatbelt until you needed it your dead and your wife is a widow. If you didn't brush your teeth until you had cavities you would have no teeth. You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good. I could go on and on and you've defended your position almost well enough by saying maybe I'll die first. I just have to say though that in general it's a "me centered" approach to living ( and you certainly have a right to that ). I have found that life will redefine "need" by the moment so saying "If I need..." or "When I need..." is a bad way to go. Now I'm going to rant a tiny bit by saying that this is why America is getting it's @$$ kicked in so many ways. Our leaders bend us over because we largely have this mentallity we are not politically active anymore we just bitch a lot. Our jobs are going over seas faster than we can crank out students to fill them. The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... :sigh: ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better. Americans used to exercise because it fit well into a state of mind known as "preparedness". Americans used to work hard at things that didn't seem to fit into their daily activity because it kept mental prowess fit. Americans used to "buck up" and get it done no matter how hard it might be... We are Americans and we used to FINISH THINGS! I'm horrified at how I'm watching Americans go flat like a pop bottle with no lid. There's no *fizz* left in America and it's not a good thing. Shog this isn't aimed at you and I have meandered (but only slightly) from the OP but I just had to say this. On this board you have always been one of the people who I admired for many reasons. So your response here just surprised me. I had to speak to it a little bit to remind Amerians of the greatness we once embodied. We used to enjoy hard work. Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn
code-frog wrote:
The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better.
How do you know we are writing "crappy" code? Why would so many companies be shifting to India if we were doing such a terrible job? Why would some of the biggest software companies in the world set up centers in India if we were really doing such a terrible job? Why would NASA/Microsoft/Google/Yahoo... hire so many Johnie Turban Hats if they were doing as crappy a job as you claim they are. We take pride in our work. We strive to write as much good quality code as we can or we are able to. Unless you are implying that, by default, all Americans are better at code writing than Indians.
code-frog wrote:
Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn't work but our jobs still stay there.One word... SUCKS!!!
Umm, why would you say that the quality of work sucks and the product doesnt work? That's a very generalised statement without proof. You've said that in the previous para as well Perhaps you should come down yourself and check out the standards of work here before commenting like this. Please do refrain from making such generalised statements for which you can offer no solid tangible proof.
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code-frog wrote:
The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better.
How do you know we are writing "crappy" code? Why would so many companies be shifting to India if we were doing such a terrible job? Why would some of the biggest software companies in the world set up centers in India if we were really doing such a terrible job? Why would NASA/Microsoft/Google/Yahoo... hire so many Johnie Turban Hats if they were doing as crappy a job as you claim they are. We take pride in our work. We strive to write as much good quality code as we can or we are able to. Unless you are implying that, by default, all Americans are better at code writing than Indians.
code-frog wrote:
Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn't work but our jobs still stay there.One word... SUCKS!!!
Umm, why would you say that the quality of work sucks and the product doesnt work? That's a very generalised statement without proof. You've said that in the previous para as well Perhaps you should come down yourself and check out the standards of work here before commenting like this. Please do refrain from making such generalised statements for which you can offer no solid tangible proof.
Well let's see... I worked at Micron Technology for 4+ years and while there I was the U.S. code contact for a huge project being developed by WIPRO. We paid WIPRO *TONS* of money for this project and in return their 1.0 release contained about 300,000 lines of code without a single error handler. When I told them no way, they missed the spec they sent the code back with 200,000 new lines of code: ErrorHandler: On Error Resume Next That was lazy, it sucked and was no solution. We forced them to put in correct and specific error handling and they missed 1.0 by over a month because of it. As the project grew and got larger the code grew and got uglier. It was the most horrid, bloated crap I've ever seen in my life and this was from WIPRO who had given us over 20 Indian Project Managers on site to work with. The code sucked, deal with it. I work with people from Dell, Microsoft and other large American corporations on a very regular basis. I always here the same thing from them. "The code coming from India sucks. We are bringing those jobs back to American and ending ties." If you don't like that too bad. It's not problem your products speak for themselves. If you think I'm making this up ... fine. I really don't care. The news is out in many companies jobs are being brought back because of quality. If you don't believe me now you will soon just watch the headliens in U.S. papers. My statements are hardly generalized. After working with Indian contractors for 4 years and having some really good conversations with many that became friends I can promise you I make no generalizations. But again, I really don't care and sorry but... I won't refrain from anything. Sorry to make you mad guess you'll have to get used to it the same way I had to learn how to lose my house, my job and over $40,000 in savings when I got laid off and 3 Indian contractors took my job. I wasn't happy about that but *I* had to deal with it. 6 months later I was contacted to see if I would come back as a consultant to fix the project. When it was my code it had a down time of .0001% over 4 years and none of that from my code. 6 months after the 3 Indian's took over the downtime (in a manufacturing environment) had risen to over 20%. I told them I had zero interest in helping them and they could sleep in the bed they made. Guess what? They didn't like it and *they* got to deal with it. Looks like in this FUBAR mess known as out sourcing a lot of people don't like what's going on and guess what? They can deal with it.
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Well let's see... I worked at Micron Technology for 4+ years and while there I was the U.S. code contact for a huge project being developed by WIPRO. We paid WIPRO *TONS* of money for this project and in return their 1.0 release contained about 300,000 lines of code without a single error handler. When I told them no way, they missed the spec they sent the code back with 200,000 new lines of code: ErrorHandler: On Error Resume Next That was lazy, it sucked and was no solution. We forced them to put in correct and specific error handling and they missed 1.0 by over a month because of it. As the project grew and got larger the code grew and got uglier. It was the most horrid, bloated crap I've ever seen in my life and this was from WIPRO who had given us over 20 Indian Project Managers on site to work with. The code sucked, deal with it. I work with people from Dell, Microsoft and other large American corporations on a very regular basis. I always here the same thing from them. "The code coming from India sucks. We are bringing those jobs back to American and ending ties." If you don't like that too bad. It's not problem your products speak for themselves. If you think I'm making this up ... fine. I really don't care. The news is out in many companies jobs are being brought back because of quality. If you don't believe me now you will soon just watch the headliens in U.S. papers. My statements are hardly generalized. After working with Indian contractors for 4 years and having some really good conversations with many that became friends I can promise you I make no generalizations. But again, I really don't care and sorry but... I won't refrain from anything. Sorry to make you mad guess you'll have to get used to it the same way I had to learn how to lose my house, my job and over $40,000 in savings when I got laid off and 3 Indian contractors took my job. I wasn't happy about that but *I* had to deal with it. 6 months later I was contacted to see if I would come back as a consultant to fix the project. When it was my code it had a down time of .0001% over 4 years and none of that from my code. 6 months after the 3 Indian's took over the downtime (in a manufacturing environment) had risen to over 20%. I told them I had zero interest in helping them and they could sleep in the bed they made. Guess what? They didn't like it and *they* got to deal with it. Looks like in this FUBAR mess known as out sourcing a lot of people don't like what's going on and guess what? They can deal with it.
Yes, people mess. Companies mess up. I accept that. By the looks of it,WIPRO messed up BIG time. My issue is with the fact that you imply or seem to think that *every* piece of code coming out of India is crap. That's simply not true.If it were, companies like TCS, Infosys,Satyam wouldnt be bagging multi-million dollar contracts. We've got the brains, quality work cannot be far behind. Sorry that you had to lose things close to you the way you did. I know what it feels like, haveing experienced similar losses but for different reasons. May I ask when the incident with WIPRO happened?? ITs funny that jobs are going back to America. More and more Indian students are pursuing their Masters in the US and then staying back to work. Looks like code-frog's worst nightmare:laugh:
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Yes, people mess. Companies mess up. I accept that. By the looks of it,WIPRO messed up BIG time. My issue is with the fact that you imply or seem to think that *every* piece of code coming out of India is crap. That's simply not true.If it were, companies like TCS, Infosys,Satyam wouldnt be bagging multi-million dollar contracts. We've got the brains, quality work cannot be far behind. Sorry that you had to lose things close to you the way you did. I know what it feels like, haveing experienced similar losses but for different reasons. May I ask when the incident with WIPRO happened?? ITs funny that jobs are going back to America. More and more Indian students are pursuing their Masters in the US and then staying back to work. Looks like code-frog's worst nightmare:laugh:
Truth be told many things that start bad end very good. Truth be told I've written more than my share of my crappy code. This was 1999-2003. For me at least the nightmare had some real life implications. Micron laid me off while my daughter was in the hospital and we were smack in the middle of a 3 year fight to keep her alive. I will *NEVER* forgive them for that and I despise American corporate mentallity because of it. I also blame the yellow-spined nature of the U.S. Government as well. We have no trouble dropping bombs and invading other countries to fix their problems but we won't raise a finger to fix our own. The U.S. Economy sure could have done amazing things with all the money that got exploded, fired, shot, etc in Iraq. But I'm a fighter. I'm a die hard. The day I die will be 3 weeks after my body died. I'm self employed now and loving every minute of it. I've been doing it going on 3 years now and sustained about 400% growth each quarter. It turns out that my worst nightmare was the most amazing blessing that could ever happen to me. I'm completely independant and self-sustaining and love it. I am so diversified that I could lose 50% of my business, still pay my bills and just expand in another sector. It's not so much that I think India is crap (but sometimes I do rant a bit). I think that the way the "Global Economy" emerged was done very poorly and in doing it the way U.S. corporations did they crippled their own source of prosperity in the American Middle-Class laborer. I think that India has grown to quickly in the tech sector and really didn't have the manpower or infrastructure to handle the demand with consistent quality. So India has all this work but doesn't have the manpower to deliver consistent quality. As a result they had to fill positions at a very fast pace with under trained developers (who could blame them, you have to do what you have to do at times) and quality suffered. Again I don't blame India (but I'm a cranky outspoken son-of-a-gun) I think the whole process grew way to fast and has many weak areas as a result. Now after an over-elastic growth both India and the U.S. are having to make adjustments. I believe that India needs to turn away from the U.S. as a source of income and they need to innovate on their own. This will take away an artificial dependence on the U.S. and strengthen the Indian Technical sector so that it can be self-sustained. I'd really love to see India emerge as *CONTRIBUTORS* to the world rather than *EMPLOYEES* for the world. Right now you are mainly
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
I'm not exactly sure how to go about this. Ultimately, after showing that for k=n=5 the inequality is true, you have to prove it for k=n+1, right? That boils down to
2(n+2) - 1 > 2n2 + 6n + 5
The left side of the inequality has exponential growth, while the right side has quadratic growth. So of course for all values greater than some critical value c (which can be determined by setting them equal to each other) the left side will always be greater than the right side. Outside of just knowing that exponential growth > quadratic growth, how else can you do this?