What programming language?
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
CWIn the "old days" it was true that Visual Basic was much slower than C, C++. But now is not the "old days" if you use Visual Studio .NET 2005. Now there is not much difference in speed between VB and C++. Oh I'll admit that if you are writing an embedded application on a slow processor that C++ might be a better choice - then again, I could make a compelling argument that Assembly Language is faster than C++:-) I've been programming in the days of Assembly Language, was a C programmer on UNIX, and done a lot of C++ programming using Borland C++ Builder. Did a lot of Pascal using Delphi. Now late in my career I'm a VB.NET programmer and am convienced that Visual Studio is the most advanced compiler or RAD (Rapid Application Development) that has thus far been developed. In the "old days" you could not write console (command line) applications in VB nor write DLL's - now you can. In fact, Microsoft's Visual Studio compiles both C++ and Visual Basic into a CLR (Common Language Runtime) intermediary language, for both VB and C++, and that tells me that VB.NET is so close to C++ speed that it is negligable for nearly all needs. Where I work now, its an all VB shop. I could have used my C++ skills to write code in C++ but that would introduce a level of unfamilarity to others - so I adapted to VB.NET. What I advocate is that the *reason* to use a language is generally not because of things like speed - but other more compelling things like adapting to the culture and environment where you work. Another reason for VB.NET is that I sense that there are more programming opportunites in VB than in C++. Then again, if you know VB.NET well, you should be able to pick up C++ much faster. CW
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I've had to answer this question for a couple of guys that wanted to enter programming. I would suggest learning VB.NET and C#, in that order. The end product is essentially the same, neither is better than the other in terms of performance or capability. VB.NET uses a language syntax that is more modern than C#, and is thus the easiest to learn. In learning VB.NET, you will be learning aspects of programming that you must know for any modern language. You will learn object oriented design and programming, the use of a framework, and the various levels of a program (UI, business logic, database logic, etc.). Having learned VB.NET, I would next recommend C#. C# keeps the legacy syntax it inherited from C/C++. That terse syntax is not necessary for programming, and can make development a little less productive. Having learned to program in both syntax models, you should learn C++ and Java after that.
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
Look, Languages are like machine frames where Libraries are the tools and Accessories. You can have your own sets of tools also. So If you are using .net framework, it matters you a lot the libraries you are using rather than the languages. So focus about the logic, design. Once you have the concept of a modern laguage like VB, C#, you can learn others coz while jumping to a new language, you want similar functionalities as given by your previous language and more of the new language. Bijay Bhaskar Deo
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here is how I learnt programming: BASIC -> Pascal -> Scheme -> C -> C++ -> Prolog -> Visual C++ -> Java -> Visual Basic -> JavaScript -> C# -> Python -> Ruby (Just started) But as Leckey said :
Once you get the logic and concepts, each language just has it's own syntax.
This is true for Basic, Pascal, C/C++, Java, Python and Ruby. Scheme and Prolog are totally different, they make you think in a different way too. I am trying to practice some programs in them again as they are two of my favorite languages: good for hobby programming (but not good for professional programming).
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
How you compare Basic , C/C++, Java as the snytax will allow you to work on your logic. My dear, i feel sorry, but i dont argee with u. This is true if you are doing certain type of programming. For example, if you are doing Graphics programming or database application how all these allow you to the same task with same effectiveness. Paricularly with GDI/graphics programming C++ will help you a lot than anything in terms of performance as it uses the handy pointers. So your view is partially correct.
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I think Java is a pretty cool language to learn; it can be as challenging or as easy as someone makes it for you based on what libraries/packages you use. I think everyone's right though that you should focus first on the concepts, and secondly on the syntax. The programming language that I actually learned basic coding skills in was ADA - which is old school, but learning the fundamentals through that helped me branch out into other languages with more ease!
Respectfully, Chad Johnson Tools Programmer
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
From my experience, I would suggest C# first and then vb. I have worked both for small and large companies. Being an old vb6 and asp programmer, I started with vb.net and then picked up c#. The guys (gender unspecific) I worked with that went from c# to vb seemed to have it easier. However, it is extremely to understand the .net framework. tball
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JasonTheNewb wrote:
Well the only experince i have had about C++ CLI was someone
Take this advice from me... or not... your choice... The world is full of idiots, every shape, every size, with every bias known to man. Question, examine, think for yourself and make your own decisions. Trust, but verify! If they didn't like something for a feature that was lacking or present, etc. Look for yourself, see if you can change the settings, you might find that they just didn't know what they were talking about. And even if your own research agrees with them, you learned more by verifying what they said, rather than just parotting someone else's opinions. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I'm confused, I thought the question was: What programming language should I learn? Is it too hard to 'define' the strengths, weaknesses, uses, wastes of time or how many jobs would hire you if you used a certain language? The poster asked a simple question, respected replies could have been at least something like: "I used #### and I love it, though it give me a headache one in a while." or "I am programming in #5309# currently and it is taking me time to pick it up. Though I recommend #911#, I can give you some help once in a while and some links." I got to this thread and thought "Man, are people on the net psycho?". Can anyone actually give a helpful answer? I'm going to keep reading and see how this ends. Mercy. www.catch-the-frog.com - catch him if you can.
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How you compare Basic , C/C++, Java as the snytax will allow you to work on your logic. My dear, i feel sorry, but i dont argee with u. This is true if you are doing certain type of programming. For example, if you are doing Graphics programming or database application how all these allow you to the same task with same effectiveness. Paricularly with GDI/graphics programming C++ will help you a lot than anything in terms of performance as it uses the handy pointers. So your view is partially correct.
The question is not about performance. It was about learning to program.:) Scheme/Prolog/Lisp are quite different than the rest of the languages. in other words if you know C++ you can easily pick up the VB/Java/Pascal/C# but not Scheme or Prolog.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
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If you want to learn, forget about speed, optimization and performance, those issues will be resolved later when you have learned most of the basics and are familiar with the language you choose; or will be resolved by switching to a lower level language. I suggest you try them both. If you can, go to a technical bookstore and have a look at the different "learn <insert language here >" books and decide from what you can read what looks TO YOU seems the easiest to learn. once you get the hang of how to program, learning other languages will be easier.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Very nice reply!! That is how I buy my design books and magazines. I used to just look at the cover, read what I THINK could help me, flip through the book rather fast, say in 5 minutes and then buy it ($15 to $60) get it home and it would be worthless to me. Sure I 'read' it in the store, but at home, I can not 'read' it to help me. Now I 'read' 60% of the books in the store and walk away for like a week come back and read it again, if it makes sense then, then I will buy it. Best tip in this entire thread Maximilien Lincourt! www.orlandoguy.com
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I'm confused, I thought the question was: What programming language should I learn? Is it too hard to 'define' the strengths, weaknesses, uses, wastes of time or how many jobs would hire you if you used a certain language? The poster asked a simple question, respected replies could have been at least something like: "I used #### and I love it, though it give me a headache one in a while." or "I am programming in #5309# currently and it is taking me time to pick it up. Though I recommend #911#, I can give you some help once in a while and some links." I got to this thread and thought "Man, are people on the net psycho?". Can anyone actually give a helpful answer? I'm going to keep reading and see how this ends. Mercy. www.catch-the-frog.com - catch him if you can.
warreng_online wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
It still comes down to what you want to do with it. Do you want to learn to program because you think 3D computer games are "cool" and you want to write your own? In which case you will be extremely disappointed in both the languages he said were his choices: VB and C#. Which is why I asked why he wanted to learn to program, and what he wanted to do with it. If he wants to make cool looking UI based applications with all kinds of business functionality, C# is probably the better choice than VB, especially with VB trying very hard to die. In the end, I always believe the "right tool for the right job" is the best way to focus. You get an answer directed at your true goal. "I want to learn to make UI's" [what do you want to make them for?] "I want to program" [what do you want to make?] "I want a new computer" [what do you want to do with it] I can easily answer the question, but what **I** want/need/use may not be what he wants. But if you want to force an answer that does not focus on what his goals are. I can do that to. Forget C#, VB, go C++ with either full out Direct3D with shader 4 capability (sure you have to search because it isn't out yet, but hey, you asked) or even OpenGL 2.0 (forget 1.5 or before, jump for 2.0 and OSL). Then learn C# to suppliment it. that gives you high resolution 3D game capability as well as business application capability. Add in an art class, 3D modelling, landscape rendering and special effects training, some AI and creative solution training (Creativity Boot Camp, nice!). Mind map all your ideas so that you are accustomed to using the tools, and you are a one-man gaming studio, you can give me some competition to keep me moving forward. Is that better? :rolleyes:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
If you are just learning how to program I would highly recommend starting with Java. Java handles a lot of issues that are complex to deal with for example: memory management, allowing you to focus on concepts instead of language specific issues. A good place to start is with a book on object oriented design concepts or algorithms and data structures, a reference book on Java is a good idea (though not necessary just go to sun.java.com and use their api documentation if you feel comfortable learning that way), then from there a good book on object oriented software engineering will go a long way. If you have access to a good library you can find a lot of these books for free. Good luck, §Madelyn
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warreng_online wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
It still comes down to what you want to do with it. Do you want to learn to program because you think 3D computer games are "cool" and you want to write your own? In which case you will be extremely disappointed in both the languages he said were his choices: VB and C#. Which is why I asked why he wanted to learn to program, and what he wanted to do with it. If he wants to make cool looking UI based applications with all kinds of business functionality, C# is probably the better choice than VB, especially with VB trying very hard to die. In the end, I always believe the "right tool for the right job" is the best way to focus. You get an answer directed at your true goal. "I want to learn to make UI's" [what do you want to make them for?] "I want to program" [what do you want to make?] "I want a new computer" [what do you want to do with it] I can easily answer the question, but what **I** want/need/use may not be what he wants. But if you want to force an answer that does not focus on what his goals are. I can do that to. Forget C#, VB, go C++ with either full out Direct3D with shader 4 capability (sure you have to search because it isn't out yet, but hey, you asked) or even OpenGL 2.0 (forget 1.5 or before, jump for 2.0 and OSL). Then learn C# to suppliment it. that gives you high resolution 3D game capability as well as business application capability. Add in an art class, 3D modelling, landscape rendering and special effects training, some AI and creative solution training (Creativity Boot Camp, nice!). Mind map all your ideas so that you are accustomed to using the tools, and you are a one-man gaming studio, you can give me some competition to keep me moving forward. Is that better? :rolleyes:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yes, that is A LOT better. People always ask me what program is best for graphic design, sound editing, video editing, etc. I give a list of what I have and the ease of usage. I've used FinalCut Pro and it is a great program, but I'm a windows user (and usually they are too). I now own and use Adobe Premiere Pro 2 (Professional) and I love it just as much as I love FinalCut Pro, actually a little more now that I can import PSD and AI files for dynamic interactivity. Jeff, very well said. The "What do you want to do?" questionaire it a good base to start with. The best tool is your patience combined with your amibition drive. Keep with it even when you hit a brick wall is key to pressing on. 'Drag, drop, complete product' attitudes usually deadend on their own. Thanks Jeffry J. Brickley www.orlandoguy.com
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Yes, that is A LOT better. People always ask me what program is best for graphic design, sound editing, video editing, etc. I give a list of what I have and the ease of usage. I've used FinalCut Pro and it is a great program, but I'm a windows user (and usually they are too). I now own and use Adobe Premiere Pro 2 (Professional) and I love it just as much as I love FinalCut Pro, actually a little more now that I can import PSD and AI files for dynamic interactivity. Jeff, very well said. The "What do you want to do?" questionaire it a good base to start with. The best tool is your patience combined with your amibition drive. Keep with it even when you hit a brick wall is key to pressing on. 'Drag, drop, complete product' attitudes usually deadend on their own. Thanks Jeffry J. Brickley www.orlandoguy.com
warreng_online wrote:
Yes, that is A LOT better. People always ask me what program is best for graphic design
I have a few people who ask me about my latest computers, but only to drool. Most folks gave up on me a long time ago, even though I dropped the million dollar SGI for 10K PC/workstations, that is still enough to scare most people. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I would learn C#. It would be wise to learn a C style language as it will be easier to learn C, C++, Java ... if you learned C# or another C style language. Also C# is my recommendation because Microsoft gives Visual C# 2005 Express Edition for free, they also have an Express Edition for VB, C++/CLI, and ((J#) X| ). Its your choice, choose one that works best with you. Play around with some languages and see which one you like the best. My personal favorite is C#
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Yes, that is A LOT better. People always ask me what program is best for graphic design, sound editing, video editing, etc. I give a list of what I have and the ease of usage. I've used FinalCut Pro and it is a great program, but I'm a windows user (and usually they are too). I now own and use Adobe Premiere Pro 2 (Professional) and I love it just as much as I love FinalCut Pro, actually a little more now that I can import PSD and AI files for dynamic interactivity. Jeff, very well said. The "What do you want to do?" questionaire it a good base to start with. The best tool is your patience combined with your amibition drive. Keep with it even when you hit a brick wall is key to pressing on. 'Drag, drop, complete product' attitudes usually deadend on their own. Thanks Jeffry J. Brickley www.orlandoguy.com
I agree with all the opinions that the language of choice will depend on what you want to create with your programming knowledge. But, to cut to a general answer for a beginner, I first learned VB, but always felt I was missing something not using a more robust language like C++. I have spent the last 18 months learning C#. I find it very powerful, easy to understand, and easy to use for all our companies needs. One added note, if you are creating web-based programs, then you have to learn ASP.NET on top of VB or C#. If a database is involved, then you also need to understand SQL and/or T-SQL. The three languages would really compliment each other, like C#, ASP.NET, and MSSQL.
Regards, Gary
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
The first computer language I learned was Autocoder for the IBM 1401. This was in late 1969 when the Marine Corps decided I should go to computer science school, the computer was the size of the average refrigerator, and it boasted a whole 4k (yes, that means 4,000 and only 4,000) bytes of memory. We dragged them around in the back of trailers in the Marine Corps. Then I moved to assembly for the IBM 360, COBOL, FORTRAN, and PL1. After that I diverged into high level data base languages and left the world of more basic programming to others. Today I have come back to more basic programming and am learning C++ and Visual C++. So, I am somewhat amazed at the strides the language has taken since those early days. But I am also delighted to see that the basics are the same as they were in those green trailers in 1969. That same foundation has served me well in dealing with any language or system. So, my advice? Start with a basic language that leaves as much as possible for the programmer to do himself. At this stage the objective is to gain a firm grasp of principles rather than to develop products. After mastering that task, one is in a far better position to tackle other languages. To gain that foundation I recommend C++ from Bloodshed Development plus "C++ for Dummies." The system is free for download. The book costs about $10. Good luck.
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
NewB seems like everyone go on a soap box on you there. Here is my advice. Go with C# more businesses are using that right now. It will be a little more difficult for you to pick up but you will get it just keep at it. Also, you should start learning a ASP as well. The reason is that a lot of companies are deploying web appliations nowadays and this will make you mor marketable when you start to look for work. Ping me if you have any ?'s that I can help with. If you are looking to program games I am not the person to give advice.
Jim Blexrude Senior Software Developer/Consultant
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
Wrong question. It's not really about the language :p - unless you have the misfortune to pick a really bad one (sadly, too many of those). To answer your question: NOT VB. maybe C#, it's been getting better and better lately. Learn C# and Python at least! To learn how to program computers, here's a path (not the only one, but the one I personally believe will get you the most amount of useful knowledge in the shortest time). Read these: 1) Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (sicp, full text available online, with videos - google for sicp full text and sicp video) - by Abelson and Sussman. It teaches programming, not programming languages. It's the MIT CS introductory course and it will make you a better programmer for the rest of your days. Learning C++/C and others will be easier after reading it. For studying 1) using drscheme as an ide is probably ideal for beginners. Read at least the first 3 chapters (and work on the exercises). 2) Introduction to Algorithms, by Cormen, Leiserson and Rivest (and Stein, for the 2nd edition). Also a "MIT book", great as both tutorial and reference for many algorithms and data structures. Don't need to read it all - chapters are pretty independent (assuming you've at least skimmed through the first part). Try to work on the homework it suggests for the chapter you decide to study. 3) The C Programming Language, by Kernighan and Ritchie. THE book about C. Teaches a lot of things that are also useful when learning C++, Java and C#. C being pretty low level you'll learn lots about computer guts. Do the exercises here too! 4) ... some assembler language book? (Optional, this is useful to learn how stuff works at the CPU level) 5) ... some digital circuits book? (Optional, to understand how CPUs are built - when FPGA become fashionable this knowledge may be worth a lot of money) The first 3 will probably take one year of study. Mostly everything CS you'll learn afterwards will be easier to understand, so they're very much worth the effort. And the knowledge gained will not "go out of fashion" (like, say, MFC knowledge - or FoxPro or many technologies that are slowly but surely fading out). The first 2 books are great because you find most of the currently known programming fundamentals in them. You could get the same fundamental knowledge reading 10-20 other books and slowly and painfully extracting the essentials yourself - your choice.
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Very nice reply!! That is how I buy my design books and magazines. I used to just look at the cover, read what I THINK could help me, flip through the book rather fast, say in 5 minutes and then buy it ($15 to $60) get it home and it would be worthless to me. Sure I 'read' it in the store, but at home, I can not 'read' it to help me. Now I 'read' 60% of the books in the store and walk away for like a week come back and read it again, if it makes sense then, then I will buy it. Best tip in this entire thread Maximilien Lincourt! www.orlandoguy.com
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
First of all, speed is not an issue when comparing VB.NET and C# (or any .NET compliant language): both are converted into MSIL and then compiled at runtime. If your main goal is to learn programming, you have to know that "programming" doesn't merely mean to write code, nor to write "fast" code. Regardless of the size of your team, you *must* learn to analyze your problem and split between data and interface layers, then to write consistent code that's easy to mantain (if you're re-readingy our own code after a few weeks it will look like someone else wrote it), then to re-read your code to find better ways to accomplish tasks (they call it "refactoring"). If you're going to write code for someone else, you'll have to learn how to listen to your customer and user (it could be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that your money depend on them:^)) I don't want to discourage you, but I want to let you know that "writing code" is just a part of the programmer's work, perhaps the easiest one. That said, my personal taste suggests VB.NET or Delphi as good choices for learning, since they're pretty simple to start, yet require precision in writing; but I'm sure many will disagree with me and suggest something else: I won't go on war for this. After all, in my career, I've programmed in about ten different languages: of course switching form one to another takes a little time (and nerve), but if you learn the general basis of programming, the language is merely a tool. A last word, just in case you're thinking to choose the programmer's career; "Welcome to Hell, dude!":-D
Marco Turrini