Is this a good thing?
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The Grand Negus wrote:
The owner does not, in my opinion, have the "right to edit or otherwise alter any post or content" because that, in effect, may put words in the poster's mouth that are not an accurate representation of the poster's views. You, for example, wouldn't want Maunder adding some curse-words or a meaning-altering "not" to the sentence above, would you?
That is when you would exercise "your right to leave".
The Grand Negus wrote:
Which brings us to the issue of responsibility. Rights imply responsibilities and the owner of a site, therefore, must exercise his rights with propriety and equity; in other words, he does not ethically have the right to remove or delete posts arbitrarily or unfairly or inconsistently; he may have the means, the opportunity, and the inclination to do so, but he does not have the right to do so. The site may be owned by Maunder; but Maunder is owned by God.
Any time a person interjects God in a discussion about an Internet forum and its usage I have to wonder about that person's priorities about life and their perspective.
Epitaph: Foolish humans, never escaped Earth.- Vernor Vinge
Jerry Hammond wrote:
ForumThe Lounge Any time a person interjects God in a discussion about an Internet forum and its usage I have to wonder about that person's priorities about life and their perspective.
I agree. As a Christian (I have no idea what his religious affiliation is) I say that was not an appropriate statement.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
The owner does not, in my opinion, have the "right to edit or otherwise alter any post or content" because that, in effect, may put words in the poster's mouth that are not an accurate representation of the poster's views. You, for example, wouldn't want Maunder adding some curse-words or a meaning-altering "not" to the sentence above, would you?
That is when you would exercise "your right to leave".
The Grand Negus wrote:
Which brings us to the issue of responsibility. Rights imply responsibilities and the owner of a site, therefore, must exercise his rights with propriety and equity; in other words, he does not ethically have the right to remove or delete posts arbitrarily or unfairly or inconsistently; he may have the means, the opportunity, and the inclination to do so, but he does not have the right to do so. The site may be owned by Maunder; but Maunder is owned by God.
Any time a person interjects God in a discussion about an Internet forum and its usage I have to wonder about that person's priorities about life and their perspective.
Epitaph: Foolish humans, never escaped Earth.- Vernor Vinge
Jerry Hammond wrote:
That is when you would exercise "your right to leave".
And when my activities cease to bear fruit - there are communications generated by these discussions that do not appear in the forums - I shall.
Jerry Hammond wrote:
Any time a person interjects God in a discussion about an Internet forum and its usage I have to wonder about that person's priorities about life and their perspective.
You were the one who brought up "rights" and "ownership". From whence, if not God, do rights and ownership come? Or do you simply mean "power" when you used the word "right", as in, "the owner of a site has the power to delete, etc"?
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
True teaching is about the student, not the instructor.
True. But I can't teach, say, horseback riding, because I don't know how to do it myself. So I offer to teach what I know best, using the product I know best, which is based on research to which I have devoted a great deal of time, energy, and money. So when I say, "Come, follow me. Join the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers!" what I'm saying is, "Come. Let me teach you everything I know about programming - and some auxiliary things along the way. You can take what you want and disregard the rest." In other words, I am what I am and I offer what I have. Why should that occasion abuse from anyone? Those who are not interested can simply ignore my posts - the name, "Grand Negus" is clearly displayed on the header line and no one is forced to read those entries.
The Grand Negus wrote:
You can take what you want and disregard the rest.
which has NEVER been your offer in the past, those are the bridges you burned. When someone disagreed with you, you corrected them, listed your commandment from God, or your "illustrious education" in math, or other nonsense to talk down the person, tell them they are wrong, that they cannot take what they want, they MUST TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE MADE, and be happy about it because only YOU are right and they are so much gum under your shoe. That is how you have treated people here. And so when they see an offer, genuine or not, it is unfathomable that you could have changed from the egomaniac to the teacher, from the obsessive to the flexible, from the rude to kindness. Personally, I doubt the offer is genuine, but I am willing to accept a second chance to prove it is which was why I didn't comment. But it is up to you to prove you have changed, so far you simply say that you can do what you want, whenever you want, because you are right by God, and everyone else here, including the owner of the sight must bow to your will and let you do what you want. That is still the cry of the egomaniac that we all have seen from you. Prove you have changed. Ask that others give you the chance even though the bridges are on fire, or bombed to smithereens. Still, maybe someone will offer a rope bridge of contact, though they might hold a knife to the end. Perhaps your faith can find a modicum of respect for other experiences and meet people half-way. But in the end you have to prove you have changed, not that everyone else here are idiots for not following your beliefs.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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A couple of days ago a guy asked for assistance "getting over the beginner hump" in the General Discussions forum. He's a C# programmer; his request said, "I am looking for something that would walk a person through completion of a mildly complex program, starting from the design and planning phase and ending with a final release product." I offered to walk him through a re-write of our Plain English development system in C# - without cost or obligation. This offer was met, surprisingly, with strong resistance and nasty remarks from many; and - thankfully - with a few words of support from others. Fine; everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
The Grand Negus wrote:
Is this a good thing?
I doubt it. But i left for the holidays, and missed that thread. My guess is, the people left were bored, and thinking wistfully of all the winter driving they could be doing were they not stuck in front of a computer. Such dissatisfaction leads naturally to anger and anarchy...
---- I just want you to be happy; That's my only little wish...
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A couple of days ago a guy asked for assistance "getting over the beginner hump" in the General Discussions forum. He's a C# programmer; his request said, "I am looking for something that would walk a person through completion of a mildly complex program, starting from the design and planning phase and ending with a final release product." I offered to walk him through a re-write of our Plain English development system in C# - without cost or obligation. This offer was met, surprisingly, with strong resistance and nasty remarks from many; and - thankfully - with a few words of support from others. Fine; everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
You aren't related to Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King by chance are ya?
Todd Smith
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Is this a good thing?
I doubt it. But i left for the holidays, and missed that thread. My guess is, the people left were bored, and thinking wistfully of all the winter driving they could be doing were they not stuck in front of a computer. Such dissatisfaction leads naturally to anger and anarchy...
---- I just want you to be happy; That's my only little wish...
Shog9 wrote:
I doubt it. But i left for the holidays, and missed that thread. My guess is, the people left were bored, and thinking wistfully of all the winter driving they could be doing were they not stuck in front of a computer. Such dissatisfaction leads naturally to anger and anarchy...
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Epitaph: Foolish humans, never escaped Earth.- Vernor Vinge
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The Grand Negus wrote:
You can take what you want and disregard the rest.
which has NEVER been your offer in the past, those are the bridges you burned. When someone disagreed with you, you corrected them, listed your commandment from God, or your "illustrious education" in math, or other nonsense to talk down the person, tell them they are wrong, that they cannot take what they want, they MUST TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE MADE, and be happy about it because only YOU are right and they are so much gum under your shoe. That is how you have treated people here. And so when they see an offer, genuine or not, it is unfathomable that you could have changed from the egomaniac to the teacher, from the obsessive to the flexible, from the rude to kindness. Personally, I doubt the offer is genuine, but I am willing to accept a second chance to prove it is which was why I didn't comment. But it is up to you to prove you have changed, so far you simply say that you can do what you want, whenever you want, because you are right by God, and everyone else here, including the owner of the sight must bow to your will and let you do what you want. That is still the cry of the egomaniac that we all have seen from you. Prove you have changed. Ask that others give you the chance even though the bridges are on fire, or bombed to smithereens. Still, maybe someone will offer a rope bridge of contact, though they might hold a knife to the end. Perhaps your faith can find a modicum of respect for other experiences and meet people half-way. But in the end you have to prove you have changed, not that everyone else here are idiots for not following your beliefs.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
But in the end you have to prove you have changed, not that everyone else here are idiots for not following your beliefs.
I don't think - and have never said - that the people here are "idiots" for not following my beliefs. I have said, and will say again now, that I think they are wrong, as in incorrect in not doing so; certainly wrong in not first studying those beliefs before rejecting them. But how else can things be? You think I'm wrong in many of my beliefs, and you therefore fervently oppose them, giving various facts and examples to support your opinion. You think I'm wrong in my approach to propagating those beliefs, and so you passionately criticise it, suggesting improvements according to the light that's been given you. Fine; that's called discussion and argument and "the free exchange of ideas". But you don't delete my posts! That would be nothing but censorship. Yes. I have a great deal of meaningful things in my head (in my opinion) and I intend to "download" those things into other heads before I die; the good parts, I trust, will stick and be further developed, while the nonsense will fall away. But I won't apologize for that; that's exactly what teachers do. And I encourage you to do the same. When I heard that you were teaching your girlfriend's son (I think it was) about computers, I thought, "Good. I think the kid would benefit more from hearing from both of us, rather than either one of us alone, but good nevertheless." (By the way, if you'd like a copy of Plain English for the little guy, just let me know. It will give you a lot to talk about!)
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You aren't related to Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King by chance are ya?
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
:omg: Now you have done the unspeakable and mentioned the name of "He who shall not be named." Have you no mercy?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Jerry Hammond wrote:
That is when you would exercise "your right to leave".
And when my activities cease to bear fruit - there are communications generated by these discussions that do not appear in the forums - I shall.
Jerry Hammond wrote:
Any time a person interjects God in a discussion about an Internet forum and its usage I have to wonder about that person's priorities about life and their perspective.
You were the one who brought up "rights" and "ownership". From whence, if not God, do rights and ownership come? Or do you simply mean "power" when you used the word "right", as in, "the owner of a site has the power to delete, etc"?
The Grand Negus wrote:
You were the one who brought up "rights" and "ownership". From whence, if not God, do rights and ownership come? Or do you simply mean "power" when you used the word "right", as in, "the owner of a site has the power to delete, etc"?
Better keep an eye on that all consuming zealotry or before you know it, in the blink of an eye, you'll be hijacking a plane and flying it into the CP forums...
Epitaph: Foolish humans, never escaped Earth.- Vernor Vinge
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The Grand Negus wrote:
You were the one who brought up "rights" and "ownership". From whence, if not God, do rights and ownership come? Or do you simply mean "power" when you used the word "right", as in, "the owner of a site has the power to delete, etc"?
Better keep an eye on that all consuming zealotry or before you know it, in the blink of an eye, you'll be hijacking a plane and flying it into the CP forums...
Epitaph: Foolish humans, never escaped Earth.- Vernor Vinge
Jerry Hammond wrote:
Better keep an eye on that all consuming zealotry or before you know it, in the blink of an eye, you'll be hijacking a plane and flying it into the CP forums...
Wait! You're about to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It is not likely that I will take violent action against CodeProject, because my "zealotry" is directed toward positive ends; the development of better solutions, not the destruction of lesser ones. I'm an artist, a designer, a teacher, a developer; not a destroyer. I've spent way more time, energy, and money developing the Plain English compiler than I'll ever spend lamenting the state of the industry. If the terrorists who flew planes into the World Trade Center spent as much time building infrastructure in foreign lands as they did hating those who already have an infrastructure, they'd wouldn't have time to do the damage they do. In other words, they know what's wrong, but they don't know what's right; so instead of building, all they can do is destroy. Not so in our case. We don't have to destroy Visual Studio, for example, because we hate it but don't know what to do about it - we can simply ignore it and use our own development system because we have done something about it. Energies directed in this way, however zealous, are not available for destructive purposes. So I hope you can see that it is not zeal that leads to terrorism, but undirected and unproductive zeal. Directed and productive zeal is a good thing.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Is this a good thing?
Let's see what happens: I hereby make the same offer as the Grand Negus regarding my proprietary, commercial, closed source Interacx[^] system. (heck, Negus didn't even provide a clickety link, IIRC!) The point being, that if I had made the offer, I doubt very much the post would have been deleted. Therefore, it isn't the post itself that appears to be the problem, but rather a bias towards the history of the poster. (Of course, I'm sure there's a bias toward my posts as well, just a different bias. :) ) IMO, I think deleting your post was going too far. Ideally, this post should be deleted as well if the playing field is level. Any takers? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI think you should replace the DNN-theme with something that doesn't look like DNN. ;) (When I signed up for CP, it never agreed to stay on topic!)
-- Deciphered from crop circles
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Is this a good thing?
Let's see what happens: I hereby make the same offer as the Grand Negus regarding my proprietary, commercial, closed source Interacx[^] system. (heck, Negus didn't even provide a clickety link, IIRC!) The point being, that if I had made the offer, I doubt very much the post would have been deleted. Therefore, it isn't the post itself that appears to be the problem, but rather a bias towards the history of the poster. (Of course, I'm sure there's a bias toward my posts as well, just a different bias. :) ) IMO, I think deleting your post was going too far. Ideally, this post should be deleted as well if the playing field is level. Any takers? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI'm going to agree with Joergen here. Make it look less DNN-ish. ;P
And I get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again
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A couple of days ago a guy asked for assistance "getting over the beginner hump" in the General Discussions forum. He's a C# programmer; his request said, "I am looking for something that would walk a person through completion of a mildly complex program, starting from the design and planning phase and ending with a final release product." I offered to walk him through a re-write of our Plain English development system in C# - without cost or obligation. This offer was met, surprisingly, with strong resistance and nasty remarks from many; and - thankfully - with a few words of support from others. Fine; everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
Hey Grand Negus, Keep posting, dont give up. I like your vision for programming languages. We shouldnt have to specify everything in such great detail. Your plain english compiler (which I downloaded and tried a few months back) is not there yet. It is a baby step in the right direction. Think about starting a blog. Luckily you have folks like Marc who are not too "pissed off" yet, find out from them how to take your ideas forward via blogging or other methods.
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I'd rather read about the Plain English Compiler (even though I too find it mildly annoying) than the stupid "It's Friday"-threads. So maybe if the "Clan of CodeProject" stopped playing the police of the Internet there would be something for everybody.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandRohde wrote:
So maybe if the "Clan of CodeProject" stopped playing the police of the Internet
We're not policing the entire Internet, just the "Your Visual Studio and .NET homepage", otherwise known as The CodeProject.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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Well I don't go off about how PHP is going to control my future computer drones. Admittedly your Plain English Compiler would be a nice step in the advance of programming, however computers do not speak english. So for this reason you would have to convert whatever the input is into machine code. Basically what you now have is Visual Basic. It is indeed true that if you were to shut up you would not be able to express yourself. I believe this would be your intelligent side.
Brad Australian -CAUTION- The previous statement may contain traces of PHP, and by reading this statement you negate the right to vote me down.
Bradml wrote:
Basically what you now have is Visual Basic.
I'll have to take exception to that. VB is too terse to be compared with Plain English. COBOL, yes...
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
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A couple of days ago a guy asked for assistance "getting over the beginner hump" in the General Discussions forum. He's a C# programmer; his request said, "I am looking for something that would walk a person through completion of a mildly complex program, starting from the design and planning phase and ending with a final release product." I offered to walk him through a re-write of our Plain English development system in C# - without cost or obligation. This offer was met, surprisingly, with strong resistance and nasty remarks from many; and - thankfully - with a few words of support from others. Fine; everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
The Grand Negus wrote:
But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
Okay - I saw that thread before it was deleted and some of your other recent posts and I figured that at least you were staying on-topic. When the topic didn't directly invoke anything that could do with your Plain English compiler you didn't mention it. When it did mention something you did. Which I think is fair enough. So long as you are actively taking part in the site I don't have a problem with you mentioning your PE compiler from time-to-time. However, for some people I think it has become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. You cried out over and over about your Plain English compiler so often that people are tired of hearing about it. They want to ignore those comments and they want to remove them from the site, so they report it as spam. Just as in the story the villagers thought the boy was spamming them about the presence of a wolf. I think that because of the unfortunate reputation that you seem to have built up you need to be a bit more canny about mentioning your PE compiler.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Bradml wrote:
Hey good for you. Typing the word Dim isn't such a big task for me... but maybe you are missing fingers?
Clearly, you speak about things you do not understand. Our variable naming and reference methods are not merely different in syntax from the norm, but represent an entirely different - and more natural - way of looking at the matter. But since you've decided to speak before investigating the thing you are speaking about, you wouldn't know that. See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice.
Bradml wrote:
Well if someone went around constantly claiming Visual Basic was gods answer to I.T. then I would probably have hit the spam button (Well maybe just a 1.. but you get the point).
Yes, I do get the point. You are not interested in improving the quality of posts on this site, nor are you interested in increasing the diversity of opinions presented; you're simply interested in expressing your own feelings about things, however ill-conceived and destructive they may be.
The Grand Negus wrote:
See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice
Bible thumping belongs in the Soap Box! :rolleyes: This is a diverse site with some 3M members from all over the world having very diverse political and philosophical views. That doesn’t mean that we can’t all get along in the “no man’s land” known as the CP lounge. In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me. X| I do not want to go into why because that would be a philosophical discussion not suitable to the lounge. :~ Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge. :cool: We will all get along better if we respect each other. :rose:
The Grand Negus wrote:
everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be [from your original post in this thread]
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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Bradml wrote:
Basically what you now have is Visual Basic.
I'll have to take exception to that. VB is too terse to be compared with Plain English. COBOL, yes...
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
VB is too terse to be compared with Plain English
I never thought I would ever see VB and terse in the same sentence! :wtf:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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The Grand Negus wrote:
See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice
Bible thumping belongs in the Soap Box! :rolleyes: This is a diverse site with some 3M members from all over the world having very diverse political and philosophical views. That doesn’t mean that we can’t all get along in the “no man’s land” known as the CP lounge. In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me. X| I do not want to go into why because that would be a philosophical discussion not suitable to the lounge. :~ Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge. :cool: We will all get along better if we respect each other. :rose:
The Grand Negus wrote:
everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be [from your original post in this thread]
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
JimmyRopes wrote:
In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”.
You missed programming questions. :rolleyes:
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Marc Clifton wrote:
One thing this site has taught me more than just about any other life experience, is not to hold a grudge. It's also really hammered home "you can't control things you're not in charge of". Frankly, I would suggest you continue to develop your ideas and promote your product and just let CP go.
Thanks. And as I've said before, I think you are a fair and reasonable man. But it's not really a "grudge" that we're talking about here - though I can see how it might sound that way. It's more that I don't see any significant encouragement to justify the effort necessary to take steps in the direction you suggested earlier. If and when a light at the end of the tunnel appears, however, I would sincerely hope that I wouldn't let bygones interfere with movement toward that light. Regarding the most recent suggestion above, however, I need to remind you that what you see on these forums is not the whole story. This very thread, for example, generated a request from a person who does not appear on the thread, and the same thing happened just yesterday; it is these people we hope to reach through CodeProject. So, when should the Apostle Paul abandon the Jews and restrict himself entirely to a Gentile ministry? And at what point should Martin Luther make his less-than-graceful exit from the Roman Catholic church? How often should Gene Amdahl go back to IBM and try to convince them he's right, before he sets out on his own? Should Steve Jobs stay at Apple, leave, come back, or leave again? We know that we will most likely, in the end, part company with CodeProject altogether. But now? When so many of the members haven't yet expressed an opinion either way? Well, perhaps...
The Grand Negus wrote:
So, when should the Apostle Paul abandon the Jews and restrict himself entirely to a Gentile ministry?
Soap Box! :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes