Union for Programmers
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
I think in general we are a highly paid workforce already. When you start out you may be on a lower wage, but this improves as you gain experience. A union would just get in the way, and how would it protect the workers of one company by getting another companies employees to strike etc? Now, if there were 100+ employees at the same firm, I could see them having a roll, but in small firms such as mine, it would be useless. I stand up for what I am worth. I just realised I had to go through some lean years to get where I am today. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill, Individual programmers have the power in their hands and that is how it should be. Let me spell out a scenario for you. Let’s suppose we have two programmers, the first is Neo; he’s a regular genius that can crank out C++ code while sleeping. He’s proficient and meets deadlines consistently and his code is an example of clear and concise programming. The second programmer is Sam. Sam is lazy and hates his job and fails to meet deadlines, not to mention that Sam’s code never passes a peer review. They make the same amount of money. Why? Well because that’s what labor unions do. They standardize pay and work hours and benefits. They do this to the point that there is no distinction between workers that perform their jobs and those that are slackers. I’m against the organization of labor unions for programmers. Unions had a time and a purpose. That time was when big business where treating workers unfairly. The purpose was to make those big companies pay a fair wage for and honest and fair days work. Nowadays unions treat big business (and small companies) unfairly. How? By protecting the worker at any cost. The companies that they work for can not touch workers that are constantly late or perform poorly and this is because of unions. Myself, as an entrepreneur, want to have the ability to hire and fire as I see fit. If a programmer at my company is not cutting it in anyway, I want to be able to let him move on and find someone more suitable for the task. Conversely, if I have a programmer that is cranking out code like Neo in my example above, then I want to be able to reward him. Today unions are more a form of socialism than they are anything else and to that I say “No thanks!” Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
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Stan Shannon wrote: I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. With all due respect, Stan, it's the not the company's responsibility to pay you what you're worth. The company's responsibilities are to its share holders and to its customers/clients. Part of fulfilling that task is keeping expenses (including salaries) as low as possible while still producing a quality product or service. As the man said, You don't make what you deserve. You make what you negotiate. Cheers, Tom Archer Author - Inside C#, Visual C++.NET Bible
Tom Archer wrote: The company's responsibilities are to its share holders and to its customers/clients. That is precisely why I included the modifier "and to the economy in general". There are many factors which the employer must consider when deciding what I'm worth. It still boils down to the issue that the employer has a clearer picture of how much (little) he must pay me for my services. For a healthy economy, employers should be free to do that otherwise we will have economic resources diverted to people not based on their value to the economy in general but based upon some arbitrary and inefficient bureacratic formula of some kind. I should be paid what I'm worth, and the employer is the only one who can truly make that judgement. Of course the employer is going to try to pay me as little as possible. So what? I'll get my $150,000 - if I am producing at that level. Yes, I want to make as much money as possible, but I also want to live in a healthy, stable, robust economy. In other words, I would rather have a 90% chance of keeping a $70k job than a 10% chance of keeping a $150k job. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Best answer yet! Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
You are not the slave of your employer. You have the right and the ability to seek a better paying job or to create your own better paying job. If you don't like the pay or the benefits, take your skills elsewhere. Heck, you may even convince your current employer to give you a raise if they know you are looking around. IMHO, unions are a construct of socialists. If you live in a free country, stand up for yourself! Like it or not, I'm right.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Oh dear Bill, ewe have been away for far too long... :rolleyes: ____________________ David Wulff hu·mour Pronunciation Key (hymr) n. & v. Chiefly British Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The lounge can be a real page-turner at times. - Jason (SonorkID 100.611) "I just recieved an email from myself but I didn't send it ?" - Colin Davies, Sonork conference
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Tim Smith wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The lounge can be a real page-turner at times. - Jason (SonorkID 100.611) "I just recieved an email from myself but I didn't send it ?" - Colin Davies, Sonork conference
My wit even amuses me. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Is there any way to stop taking crap from Sergio? Even if I was upset with my situation the last place I'd go for help is to somebody like this guy.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
$100k? If only. The games industry would fall apart overnight if us games programmers demanded that :( -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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Bill SerGio wrote: Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Is there any way to stop taking crap from Sergio? Even if I was upset with my situation the last place I'd go for help is to somebody like this guy.
Unless you needed an infomercial :-D -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
You're not making $100,000 yet?
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life! -
Bill SerGio wrote: stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Oh dear Bill, ewe have been away for far too long... :rolleyes: ____________________ David Wulff hu·mour Pronunciation Key (hymr) n. & v. Chiefly British Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Fergetaboutit. I could'nt take the pay cut. Any decent programmer with any cojones of his own is either self employeed or doing contract jobs anyway. The active word here is decent. You would be suprised at the number of people who think they are programmers but have no idea what data structures, alogrithms, state machines, etc.. are. They think drag and drop GUI's are the hot thing to do or will spend 2 weeks writing a new control to do something stupid like different color highlights or some such.. However ask the same person to parse in a delimited text file into records and then sort and eliminate duplicates and all you get is a blank stare. Richard ( Never trust anyone under 40 ) Monarchies, aristocracies, and religions....there was never a country where the majority of the people were in their secret hearts loyal to any of these institutions. Mark Twain - The Mysterious Stranger
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Fergetaboutit. I could'nt take the pay cut. Any decent programmer with any cojones of his own is either self employeed or doing contract jobs anyway. The active word here is decent. You would be suprised at the number of people who think they are programmers but have no idea what data structures, alogrithms, state machines, etc.. are. They think drag and drop GUI's are the hot thing to do or will spend 2 weeks writing a new control to do something stupid like different color highlights or some such.. However ask the same person to parse in a delimited text file into records and then sort and eliminate duplicates and all you get is a blank stare. Richard ( Never trust anyone under 40 ) Monarchies, aristocracies, and religions....there was never a country where the majority of the people were in their secret hearts loyal to any of these institutions. Mark Twain - The Mysterious Stranger
Richard Stringer wrote: ( Never trust anyone under 40 :laugh: Considering that designing for Windows users consists of spending 6% of your time doing the functional program and the rest dorking around with all the cutesy graphics stuff, those "other" programmers could be considered 94% expert!
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: Programmers are grossly under paid You have somewhat of a point here. Those that just program probably don't get paid a heck of a lot. It is usually those that do much more than program that achieve the significant rewards. Bill SerGio wrote: join the Teamsters My previous experiences with this crowd has never done anything to help fill my pocket. You remind me of the starving artists. Chris
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Fergetaboutit. I could'nt take the pay cut. Any decent programmer with any cojones of his own is either self employeed or doing contract jobs anyway. The active word here is decent. You would be suprised at the number of people who think they are programmers but have no idea what data structures, alogrithms, state machines, etc.. are. They think drag and drop GUI's are the hot thing to do or will spend 2 weeks writing a new control to do something stupid like different color highlights or some such.. However ask the same person to parse in a delimited text file into records and then sort and eliminate duplicates and all you get is a blank stare. Richard ( Never trust anyone under 40 ) Monarchies, aristocracies, and religions....there was never a country where the majority of the people were in their secret hearts loyal to any of these institutions. Mark Twain - The Mysterious Stranger
Richard Stringer wrote: ( Never trust anyone under 40 ) Glad I'm near the big 50 :) I know, it's all downhill from there. Chris
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
No thanks. I rely on the competition between companies to pay me what I'm worth. Software is a pretty volitile industry. Establishing a union will burn the entire industry everytime there is a downturn. Whereas *not* establishing a union will allow the industry to adjust to downturns by (1) giving companies more flexibility in paying employees, and (2) allow for the firing of useless employees. (In fact, one of the main jobs of unions seems to be to prevent companies from firing useless employees, and it hurts everyone else.) Overall, I think unions would hurt software companies and would be the best way to move job overseas. (Have learned anything by watching the US steel industry?) Besides, Bill, you are the *king* of infomercials. As the local CP royalty, aren't you afraid of giving power to the commoners? :)
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Fergetaboutit. I could'nt take the pay cut. Any decent programmer with any cojones of his own is either self employeed or doing contract jobs anyway. The active word here is decent. You would be suprised at the number of people who think they are programmers but have no idea what data structures, alogrithms, state machines, etc.. are. They think drag and drop GUI's are the hot thing to do or will spend 2 weeks writing a new control to do something stupid like different color highlights or some such.. However ask the same person to parse in a delimited text file into records and then sort and eliminate duplicates and all you get is a blank stare. Richard ( Never trust anyone under 40 ) Monarchies, aristocracies, and religions....there was never a country where the majority of the people were in their secret hearts loyal to any of these institutions. Mark Twain - The Mysterious Stranger
Richard Stringer wrote: Never trust anyone under 40 I hope that's a joke. Jeremy L. Falcon "You do not know the power of the dumb side." Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants momentarily?