Solving the ASP.NET Designer / Developer dilemma
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I do all the asp.net coding for my company. I try to involve my co-worker as much as possible by letting her do some of the design (color schemes, layout, etc) but she can't code at all. I'm attending an MS function in early june and they're handing out free copies of expression web. I had never heard of it until recently but your post has helped shed some light on what it may be good for. Perhaps I can continue to use VS for the code and my co-worker can use EW for design? That would be good! Is expression web the new name for front page?
Front Page has offically gone away with Office 2007. Is was too inflexible. EW is not really a replacement (At least thats what Microsoft advertises), but is to be a stand alone product. As far as I know, EW would be an excellent product for your use - you can have her update your asp pages via project files thru email or she can edit your client side web site directly on your intranet web server and then publish from there when complete. EW can't affect server controls except for placement, looks, colors, etc... Functionallity of the asp page is still in VS and EW only affects what the client sees. :)
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Front Page has offically gone away with Office 2007. Is was too inflexible. EW is not really a replacement (At least thats what Microsoft advertises), but is to be a stand alone product. As far as I know, EW would be an excellent product for your use - you can have her update your asp pages via project files thru email or she can edit your client side web site directly on your intranet web server and then publish from there when complete. EW can't affect server controls except for placement, looks, colors, etc... Functionallity of the asp page is still in VS and EW only affects what the client sees. :)
I may be talking out of turn here, but if EW is going to edit the look of the page and be able to change, place, delete and create ASP controls on the form, then it will have to also have some (possibly limited) control of the code page, because that is where the defines are for ASP.Net to use them. Or will VS.Net insert them on its own? I'll have to look at EW myself to see how it works. Also it occurs to me that some sort of allowance for coding choice will have to be indicated for that to work as well. Wow now I've confused myself..
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I may be talking out of turn here, but if EW is going to edit the look of the page and be able to change, place, delete and create ASP controls on the form, then it will have to also have some (possibly limited) control of the code page, because that is where the defines are for ASP.Net to use them. Or will VS.Net insert them on its own? I'll have to look at EW myself to see how it works. Also it occurs to me that some sort of allowance for coding choice will have to be indicated for that to work as well. Wow now I've confused myself..
EW only allows changes on the client side - html, java, etc... ASP controls are still under VS programming, but placement, color, size and other properties are still client side html properties and EW has access. Controls are still run on the server, but the output to the browser is still html. As a developer, I know how to make something very functional - either it works or it don't. (Black or white) But a Graphic Designer thinks in color or emotion. They look at a User Interface and think what I do is not user friendly - it works, but not pleasant. They look at something and see the same thing in a different way. Tell me which one sells? Nobody pays for a plain Jane program that does everything you could ask for, but looks like blah. Clients would rather pay for something that looks pretty, but does not have the full functions available. To have the ability to hand the design off to somebody else without them breaking my code is a very good thing. That is where EW shines.
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Sorry to post this in the lounge, but this is where all the smart people/people with plenty of experience hang out...so it makes the most sense to me to post this here. In my 3 years or so of creating ASP.NET web apps with various employers, I have yet to see a good solution that allows development by both designers as well as developers. Designers don't really like Visual Studio ( and I understand why ). They don't want to learn asp.net controls, etc, they just want to design. On the other hand, developers like ASP.NET and Visual Studio because it allows us to focus on coding the business logic and data acess faster than ever. Can any of you provide a somewhat detail explanation of your designer/developer set-up? do you use a combination of VS and Expression Web? What about Visual Web Developer? Do both designer and developer us VS? do you use Source Safe? There has to be a good solution that makes both professions happy - but it's definately elusive.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental." - Yogi Berra If you can read thank a teacher, if you can read in English, thank a Marine.
Some ideas * Designer designer - illustrator, photoshop etc idea --> image / pdf * Web designer - html, css; idea --> markup OR image / pdf --> markup (a .NET webdesigner could use the right controls directly, --> skins, themes asp:controls) - Use MS cssadapters - Use MS Css Properties addin (more like expression web and "orcas") both can be found at www.asp.net (downloads) * web developer - html, css --> skins, themes and asp:net-controls With good co-development and the right controls for the job, there are plenty of possibilites to work in paralell. some notes: - use markup when no need for dynamic server behavior meaning stop useing
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EW only allows changes on the client side - html, java, etc... ASP controls are still under VS programming, but placement, color, size and other properties are still client side html properties and EW has access. Controls are still run on the server, but the output to the browser is still html. As a developer, I know how to make something very functional - either it works or it don't. (Black or white) But a Graphic Designer thinks in color or emotion. They look at a User Interface and think what I do is not user friendly - it works, but not pleasant. They look at something and see the same thing in a different way. Tell me which one sells? Nobody pays for a plain Jane program that does everything you could ask for, but looks like blah. Clients would rather pay for something that looks pretty, but does not have the full functions available. To have the ability to hand the design off to somebody else without them breaking my code is a very good thing. That is where EW shines.
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Sorry to post this in the lounge, but this is where all the smart people/people with plenty of experience hang out...so it makes the most sense to me to post this here. In my 3 years or so of creating ASP.NET web apps with various employers, I have yet to see a good solution that allows development by both designers as well as developers. Designers don't really like Visual Studio ( and I understand why ). They don't want to learn asp.net controls, etc, they just want to design. On the other hand, developers like ASP.NET and Visual Studio because it allows us to focus on coding the business logic and data acess faster than ever. Can any of you provide a somewhat detail explanation of your designer/developer set-up? do you use a combination of VS and Expression Web? What about Visual Web Developer? Do both designer and developer us VS? do you use Source Safe? There has to be a good solution that makes both professions happy - but it's definately elusive.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental." - Yogi Berra If you can read thank a teacher, if you can read in English, thank a Marine.
An interesting discussion ! It 'feels' to me like a 'mute' 3rd. party is listening to this discussion, confused by it all : I mean the end-user who would, in the future, like to make changes in colors, styles, of their web-site at a 'reasonable' leel of abstraction ... without going through a bunch of design/mark-up/implement/test cycles involving significant expense. 'Content Style Management System' vs. 'Content Management System' ? Just a reaction ... best, Bill
"The greater the social and cultural distances between people, the more magical the light that can spring from their contact." Milan Kundera in Testaments Trahis