Another irrefutable argument for creation

Chris Kaiser

you sure can use quite a pile of words to say nothing I say the bible is a parable. Allegorical even. A collection written by man. But a good collection. Assembled largely while in captivity in Babylon. 6000 years, heh. Not logical.

This statement was never false.

Matthew Faithfull

The Bible certainly contains parables but it is much more that. It also contains, history, poetry, song, prophesy and letters. It was written down both before and after the captiviy in Babylon and the book of Daniel possibly during that time. The first five books date back to Moses at least, the historical books are essentially in order with some overlap and the authorship and or dating of most of the others is clear with a few notable exceptions like Job which you could possibly justify as allegorical as it is hard to pin to a particular period or place. Some people believe it is very old and may also date back to the original phase of the text, probably written down by Aaron at Moses direction.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

6000 years

Where do you get that from?

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Chris Kaiser

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

We are saying the same thing, you just haven't seen that yet.

No we are not. I am saying that demons have no influence since pentacost. None. You are saying they still do. If you let them, or are not saved. If they are bound then they can't. You can't be bound and free at the same time.

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

Was not Job afflicted by the Devil?

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

Yes, completely agree but when does a person began to inherit that victory?

Was Job not Old Testament? I'm talking after Pentecost. Was not Job referenced by Jesus during his ministry? What do you mean? If they are conquered then they are conquered. Or are you suggesting they are tools to afflict the unbelievers? Is this the mercy of the son as is referenced in the father?

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

What I am saying is that, if we give room or opportunity to demons they will exercise what power they have.

And I am saying that after Pentecost they have no power. If they still have power then they were NOT defeated.

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

What would you like? I shall research it to night when I get home and post back.

Scripture that validates your view. Scripture that states by Jesus that you can be afflicted by Demons after Pentecost.

This statement was never false.

Chris Kaiser

Bullshit. If Scripture doesn't spell it out then you can't infer it with accuracy. And I said nothing of Evil. Only of Demons. They are either bound and defeated or not. And we would certainly not live in a paradise, as that's entirely up to us. Not demons nor angels. We still have to make the choices to bring it about. And that starts with the gospel of brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God. Where in the bible does it specifically state the ban on divination? Where does it state that we can get cancer from demons? (This is what I am refuting.) Being time based creatures perfection isn't even possible. Only growth is.

This statement was never false.

lost in transition

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

I am saying that demons have no influence since pentacost.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12 KJV

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Or are you suggesting they are tools to afflict the unbelievers?

If you are implying that I said God uses demons to afflict the unbelievers, then you should read back over what I said.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

And I am saying that after Pentecost they have no power. If they still have power then they were NOT defeated.

I am saying they of no authority to unless given but do have the power to afflict Man. 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:21-23 KJV Think about it. Don't quickly responded to this post. Think about what I am saying. I think you are confusing the word power with authority. I am talking about authority to do something, while you are talking about the power (ability or strength) to do something.

God Bless, Jason

Paul Conrad wrote:

Chuck Norris keeps the hamsters going whenever Chris is gone on vacation. Just stares them down and they keep the servers going

Matthew Faithfull

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

They are either bound and defeated or not.

No, chained, limited, doomed, their war is lost but not impotent. If you go stand in the prison yard and pull faces at the murders do you think the fact they've been caught and convicted is going to protect you? Pentecost changes nothing for the unbeliever. You would need evidence for that to claim the situation of demonic activity clearly evident in the gospels had changed. The lack of a statement that it hadn't proves nothing.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Where in the bible does it specifically state the ban on divination?

Deuteronomy 18:10 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witch-craft,"

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Where does it state that we can get cancer from demons? (This is what I am refuting.)

It does not state that we can or cannot. I know of at least one case of a demonically caused heart attack but that is neither here nor there. You cannot state it categorically one way or the other because

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Scripture doesn't spell it out

but the evidence leads me to say probably yes. It is certainly not the usual or only cause.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Being time based creatures perfection isn't even possible. Only growth is.

Being time based has little to do with it. We are born in sin as you know well and into a fallen world.

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Tim Craig

Red Stateler wrote:

No, but I have a good nose for BS.

I guess that's because it's constantly bathed in what comes out of your mouth?

Vivi Chellappa

Add to that: Who put a watertight@rsehole in the sharks? That ought to add a powerful punch to arguments in favor of Intelligent Design.

Lost User

I didn't know sharks had email addresses.

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams

Vivi Chellappa

If electrical appliances can have IP addresses, there is no reason for sharks not to have e-mail addresses.

Chris Kaiser

Bullshit. I'm talking about what Jesus did. You are talking about what Paul wrote. If these principalities and powers are something we have to strive against, then Jesus didn't have the power to reign them in. Then he isn't all powerful. But, Jesus won the battle during his 40 days. He either has the power or doesn't. No demon has the ability to get into my mind. You can wrestle with them if you like, but I refuse to, as I only wrestle with myself. Anything dark in my life has come from me. My own projections, or misunderstandings, but mostly from dwelling on negative things such that that dwelling brought it to surface. We need to take responsibility for our own dark sides instead of foisting it onto some external source. Sorry, but I will just disagree with you on this one. You won't win this battle. And I don't prescribe to Paul's (Saul the tent maker) interpretation of the Master's teachings. He wasn't even an apostle. Yet he has the dominant voice. Interesting isn't it? That one who didn't travel with Jesus knows the most?

This statement was never false.

Chris Kaiser

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Being time based has little to do with it. We are born in sin as you know well and into a fallen world.

Bullshit. Stop putting words into my mouth. I don't well know it. The weeds and the fruit are allowed to grow side by side as they will get sorted upon harvest.

This statement was never false.

lost in transition

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

Jesus won the battle during his 40 days.

If Christ defeated Hell during his 40 days in the wilderness, then why did he die on the cross. For if He had the victory before the cross, the why die on the cross.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

You won't win this battle.

I am not in a battle with you. If you don't like what I say, then you don't like it and vice-versa. But there is not a battle.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

I'm talking about what Jesus did.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:15-18 KJV Also, friend be careful what you are calling BS. I hope that you are not referring to the Bible.

God Bless, Jason

Paul Conrad wrote:

Chuck Norris keeps the hamsters going whenever Chris is gone on vacation. Just stares them down and they keep the servers going

Chris Kaiser

Its my right to call any text BS. And anything from Paul I view with skepticism. I actually think for myself in this regard. If I'm punished for that then so be it. I'd gladly pay for that. The texts are conflicting. Jesus didn't demand baptism. That was John's domain. He did support it, but not as a requirement. Faith is the only requirement. I don't believe in hell. Sorry. I just don't. Jesus preached a merciful father. Hell contradicts that and no amount of sophistry will change my view. Jesus died on the cross because humans decided to kill him. He lived a human life and drank full that cup. To fully live the life of a human to gain the understanding of life in his creation he lived a fully human life. He could have escaped had he chosen that course, but decided against it as this life was to live the will of the Father and that was to live a fully human life but bring a greater understanding of the Father and our relationship to him. Never in his speech did he say he was to die for our sins. That is entirely interpretation. And I would wager, Paul's doing. By the way, how do you interpret "They will take up serpents..." in the passage you quote above?

Chris Kaiser

Why? Does yours leak when you go swimming? Does your own butt fill up with water? Do you only have to go for a swim to get an enema? :laugh:

This statement was never false.

lost in transition

Well then we should end this conversation. Until the next one... BTW, to this was not a battle but a good conversation.

God Bless, Jason

Paul Conrad wrote:

Chuck Norris keeps the hamsters going whenever Chris is gone on vacation. Just stares them down and they keep the servers going

Chris Kaiser

Fair enough. And, yeah, a good conversation.

This statement was never false.

Vivi Chellappa

Nope, I use the banana explicitly created by Jesus' Dad (http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=3768875037baca5de6e2)as an @rse plug. ;P

Synaptrik

Well sir, then you are craftier than I. Careful if you wiggle alot. There's an erogenous zone down there as well. You might find yourself explaining the strange faces you are making.

This statement is false