Tools - some advice please
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc Clifton -
If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonBuild Automation - Visual Build Pro[^]
Graham Anything that can be automatically done for you can be automatically done to you. Wyland's Law of Automation
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc Clifton$26k would buy a lot of beer
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonSplit the money among each of the developers in your team. The productivity will be more than what the tools will provide:)
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action CP Quote of the Day: It is the same Friday that blooms as a new enriching day with novelty and innovation for us every week. - Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
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$26k would buy a lot of beer
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Split the money among each of the developers in your team. The productivity will be more than what the tools will provide:)
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action CP Quote of the Day: It is the same Friday that blooms as a new enriching day with novelty and innovation for us every week. - Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
You beat me to it. I was going to suggest Christmas Bonuses ;)
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | The Windows Cheerleader
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonPersonally I've found build automation to be of huge benefit. I would put nearly any amount of time or money on that if it can get you a nearly one click build process. It will improve nearly every aspect of your time to market but in particular it let's you do full builds more frequently which lets you do more real world testing more frequently which catches things earlier etc etc. A profiler is useful only to alleviate a painful situation, it's not very useful for day to day work but it's very good to have on on hand when that situation arises. NDoc is great. FXCop is sort of helpful as long as you realize good software sometimes doesn't play by the "rules" it has. I have a personal bias against unit testing, I think it's a colossal waste of money the way it's over used today but I'm sure lot's of cubicle type developers will have a different opinion. I think if it's used very sparingly where it will actually matter then it's a fine thing. If I had 26k I'd spend a while trolling through the old Joel on software columns about productivity with an open mind and a simple list of overall objectives rather than pre-determining what's needed specifically, I've never found anything he said to not resonant completely with what I've learned through hard knocks over the years.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
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Personally I've found build automation to be of huge benefit. I would put nearly any amount of time or money on that if it can get you a nearly one click build process. It will improve nearly every aspect of your time to market but in particular it let's you do full builds more frequently which lets you do more real world testing more frequently which catches things earlier etc etc. A profiler is useful only to alleviate a painful situation, it's not very useful for day to day work but it's very good to have on on hand when that situation arises. NDoc is great. FXCop is sort of helpful as long as you realize good software sometimes doesn't play by the "rules" it has. I have a personal bias against unit testing, I think it's a colossal waste of money the way it's over used today but I'm sure lot's of cubicle type developers will have a different opinion. I think if it's used very sparingly where it will actually matter then it's a fine thing. If I had 26k I'd spend a while trolling through the old Joel on software columns about productivity with an open mind and a simple list of overall objectives rather than pre-determining what's needed specifically, I've never found anything he said to not resonant completely with what I've learned through hard knocks over the years.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
And some non-cubicle types.
My head asplode!
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonHow much do you score on the Joel Test[^]? Visual Assist if you do C++ An "industry-strength" Espresso machine Some guy to set up all the dev tools Visual Assist if you do C#
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|[">FoldWithUs!](http://tinyurl.com/37q6tt<br mode=) | sighist -
Split the money among each of the developers in your team. The productivity will be more than what the tools will provide:)
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action CP Quote of the Day: It is the same Friday that blooms as a new enriching day with novelty and innovation for us every week. - Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Nah, you'll hurt productivity in the long run. (Unless there's a reason for a phat bonus now)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|[">FoldWithUs!](http://tinyurl.com/37q6tt<br mode=) | sighist -
If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonI belive NDoc is no longer updated and has been replaced with Sandcastle (free). Resharper is nice but I ran into some performance problems with it and uninstalled it (inexpensive). We use CruiseControl.NET and NAnt for build automation (free). Most projects I've used integrate NUnit (free). log4net is a good logging library (free). What about bug tracking? We use TestTrack but it gets expensive. I've never used BugZilla but I hear it recommended often. Use the rest of the money to buy everyone big phat dual monitors.
Todd Smith
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Personally I've found build automation to be of huge benefit. I would put nearly any amount of time or money on that if it can get you a nearly one click build process. It will improve nearly every aspect of your time to market but in particular it let's you do full builds more frequently which lets you do more real world testing more frequently which catches things earlier etc etc. A profiler is useful only to alleviate a painful situation, it's not very useful for day to day work but it's very good to have on on hand when that situation arises. NDoc is great. FXCop is sort of helpful as long as you realize good software sometimes doesn't play by the "rules" it has. I have a personal bias against unit testing, I think it's a colossal waste of money the way it's over used today but I'm sure lot's of cubicle type developers will have a different opinion. I think if it's used very sparingly where it will actually matter then it's a fine thing. If I had 26k I'd spend a while trolling through the old Joel on software columns about productivity with an open mind and a simple list of overall objectives rather than pre-determining what's needed specifically, I've never found anything he said to not resonant completely with what I've learned through hard knocks over the years.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
John C wrote:
I have a personal bias against unit testing, I think it's a colossal waste of money the way it's over used today but I'm sure lot's of cubicle type developers will have a different opinion.
It has it's place like version control. On some projects it made the difference between me getting paged weekly for production issues and having to dust off my docs to figure out what was going on because I hadn't gotten a page in over a year even though usage went up 10x in the mean time. I agree with you that for most development where refactoring is rare and you have relatively stable requirements it is of limited use. If you have to make large changes in architecture due to randomly changing requirements, it can save your butt in more ways then you ever imagined.
John C wrote:
f I had 26k I'd spend a while trolling through the old Joel on software columns about productivity with an open mind
That's the real key. There isn't one way to do development well. It really has to be tailored to the type of developers and the current team. Just because something works with one group doesn't mean it will be just as effective with another group or product.
This blanket smells like ham
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I belive NDoc is no longer updated and has been replaced with Sandcastle (free). Resharper is nice but I ran into some performance problems with it and uninstalled it (inexpensive). We use CruiseControl.NET and NAnt for build automation (free). Most projects I've used integrate NUnit (free). log4net is a good logging library (free). What about bug tracking? We use TestTrack but it gets expensive. I've never used BugZilla but I hear it recommended often. Use the rest of the money to buy everyone big phat dual monitors.
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
Use the rest of the money to buy everyone big phat dual monitors.
I wouldn't mind a bump up to quadruple monitors. :rolleyes:
This blanket smells like ham
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonPick some categories and have your team go out and do some research on their own. If you want tools that have a chance of getting used, personal choice is important. I like dotTrace for a profiler, and I like code historian for viewing source history as well.
This blanket smells like ham
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonResharper from JetBrains, I love it.
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And some non-cubicle types.
My head asplode!
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$26k would buy a lot of beer
:beer: Always an excellent choice :D
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Todd Smith wrote:
Use the rest of the money to buy everyone big phat dual monitors.
I wouldn't mind a bump up to quadruple monitors. :rolleyes:
This blanket smells like ham
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If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonHire a code monkey to do all the boring/trivial work :)
xacc.ide
IronScheme a R5RS/R6RS-compliant Scheme on the DLR
The rule of three: "The first time you notice something that might repeat, don't generalize it. The second time the situation occurs, develop in a similar fashion -- possibly even copy/paste -- but don't generalize yet. On the third time, look to generalize the approach." -
If you had $26k to spend on your dev team (12 devs) where would you spend it? We've got decent hardware & won't be moving to VS2008 next year. We don't care about any GUI tools as our business is completely service based. We're looking for tools that'll help us with • Code Optimisation/Refactoring • Productivity • Testing (we currently use NUnit) • Build Automation • Code Documentation We've been looking at tools like the ANTS profiler, JetBrains ReSharper, FxCop, NDoc, Sandcastle, etc. & will be evaluating most of these over our code freeze period to see what we find most suitable to us. Still, I'd like to hear what others experiences with these tools were & if they could make any recommendations (even if it's a recommendation to avoid a certain product!) This isn't about spending money just for the sake of spending - we're looking for maximum gain for our team within the budget we have. Any suggestions? Opinions?
But fortunately we have the nanny-state politicians who can step in to protect us poor stupid consumers, most of whom would not know a JVM from a frozen chicken. Bruce Pierson
Because programming is an art, not a science. Marc CliftonTake them to Jamaica and !YES! I am serious. It will be the single biggest investment you make in your team and the ROI will be huge. I'm not joking at all. Do it! Hire me first though...