How many of you use WPF
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
Not me. You don't develop for a living do you? 99% of what clients look for is the Look and Feel of an application rather than the feature set. besides, you can do some really cool things with WPF.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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Not me. You don't develop for a living do you? 99% of what clients look for is the Look and Feel of an application rather than the feature set. besides, you can do some really cool things with WPF.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You don't develop for a living do you?
Nope, its just a hobby.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
99% of what clients look for is the Look and Feel of an application rather than the feature set. besides, you can do some really cool things with WPF.
You can make some professional looking apps without WPF. I believe a rock solid app thats easy to use and with a GUI designed by good standards and common sense will be far more successful than some big half transparent colorful thing with rounded edges.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
Fortunately, I am still on XP along with my customer base. I don't have to worry so much about silly new three letter acronyms. Hopefully, by the time we migrate to something new, Vista will either be much improved or a bad memory.
CodeWiz51 -- Life is not a spectator sport. I came to play. Code's Musings | Code's Articles
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
I don't use it myself but our application (software for controlling an industrial print machine) uses it. Many of the UI elements would just not be possible (or would be extremely difficult to implement) using Windows Forms.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form.
Correct. You should use a toolset such as Expression Blend.
Kevin
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
At first, I was of the same opinion. However, the more I've played with it, the more I'm coming to like it. It is possible to produce some really good applications without too much fuss - however, you really need to look at using Expression Blend (version 2 on) to get the best out of it. Now that I've got the hang of it, it's just as productive - but I do agree that it is a pain having to learn the ins and outs of WPF in the first place.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Not me. You don't develop for a living do you? 99% of what clients look for is the Look and Feel of an application rather than the feature set. besides, you can do some really cool things with WPF.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You don't develop for a living do you?
He said the other day what he does for a living. http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=2605&msg=2529900[^]
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You don't develop for a living do you?
Nope, its just a hobby.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
99% of what clients look for is the Look and Feel of an application rather than the feature set. besides, you can do some really cool things with WPF.
You can make some professional looking apps without WPF. I believe a rock solid app thats easy to use and with a GUI designed by good standards and common sense will be far more successful than some big half transparent colorful thing with rounded edges.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
Nope, its just a hobby.
Kinda figures.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
You can make some professional looking apps without WPF.
Of course. WPF was just born yesterday, [professional looking] GUI development has been going on for much longer.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I believe a rock solid app thats easy to use and with a GUI designed by good standards and common sense will be far more successful than some big half transparent colorful thing with rounded edges.
You obviously don't know the first thing about WPF then. Check out Sasha Barber's series and look into Karl Shifflett and Josh Smith's articles. All three ought to completely alter your perception of WPF. Having an extremely impressive UI (WPF) and writing proper, rock solid code for the application is not an issue of WPF. Its the issue of the developer.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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I don't use it myself but our application (software for controlling an industrial print machine) uses it. Many of the UI elements would just not be possible (or would be extremely difficult to implement) using Windows Forms.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form.
Correct. You should use a toolset such as Expression Blend.
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I don't use it myself but our application (software for controlling an industrial print machine) uses it.
Why couldn't you design the application without the use of such controls? In the world of programming and application design there are many possibilities to accomplish the goal. I believe a simple bitmap would be a better solution that a 3d rendered control.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
Nope, its just a hobby.
Kinda figures.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
You can make some professional looking apps without WPF.
Of course. WPF was just born yesterday, [professional looking] GUI development has been going on for much longer.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I believe a rock solid app thats easy to use and with a GUI designed by good standards and common sense will be far more successful than some big half transparent colorful thing with rounded edges.
You obviously don't know the first thing about WPF then. Check out Sasha Barber's series and look into Karl Shifflett and Josh Smith's articles. All three ought to completely alter your perception of WPF. Having an extremely impressive UI (WPF) and writing proper, rock solid code for the application is not an issue of WPF. Its the issue of the developer.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
I think people devote too much attention to sparkle and piz'az of the GUI. The GUI should be functional not some kind of art show.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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At first, I was of the same opinion. However, the more I've played with it, the more I'm coming to like it. It is possible to produce some really good applications without too much fuss - however, you really need to look at using Expression Blend (version 2 on) to get the best out of it. Now that I've got the hang of it, it's just as productive - but I do agree that it is a pain having to learn the ins and outs of WPF in the first place.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
It is possible to produce some really good applications without too much fuss
You mean really neat looking and shiny applications. A good application is functional and easy to use.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
It's a pain to learn. I do see that it's performance just is poor! I've got a pretty impressive machine and I have to wait for it to draw/or catch up. Hopefully by the time we have to go out and shell for VS2*** we'll have a drag and drop interface to creating it and the machines will be fast enough you don't have to wait for it to catch up to your typing. And I don't type fast.
ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
modified on Sunday, May 4, 2008 5:32 PM
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need!
WinForms? GDI? OpenGL? DirectX?! That's an awful lot of mess and complication there. Gimme a framebuffer and an event queue and i'll give you all the buttons you need. Well, unless you want properly-kerned, nicely-antialiased text on those buttons. Or want them scaled appropriately for the actual resolution of the display. I'll need a bit of extra support for that. Oh, and maybe you'd like to support screen readers and other accessibility tools for disabled users. Yeah, i'll need some extra stuff there too. Oh, you want an image drawn on the button? Loaded from a file at runtime? A vector image, drawn with proper antialiasing, blending, filtering... Yeah, no sense re-inventing the wheel - i guess i could use a bit of support on that front as well. Don't get me wrong - there are problems with WPF, first and foremost that it was released a decade later than it should have been. But there are reasons for a lot of it, and you should learn what those are before talking too much trash. ...And FWIW, you don't actually have to use XAML.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You don't develop for a living do you?
He said the other day what he does for a living. http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=2605&msg=2529900[^]
I wasn't aware. Thank you for enlightening me.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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I'm thinking of just boycotting the technology. Why should I have to learn something new and complicated just for the sake of being up to date? I don't like WPF and how it makes thinks seem messy and more complicated. I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need! Who is with me on this?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
I haven't found a use for it yet, neither have I found a use for anything other than winforms in any case for the type of stuff I work on. I guess if I was writing some kind of visual fluff stuff like a shopping portal or gardening software then maybe.
"The pursuit of excellence is less profitable than the pursuit of bigness, but it can be more satisfying." - David Ogilvy
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I think people devote too much attention to sparkle and piz'az of the GUI. The GUI should be functional not some kind of art show.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
The GUI should be functional not some kind of art show.
Huh? Oh, no. You're thinking of a command line, a glass teletype UI. GUIs are all about the pizazz...
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
It is possible to produce some really good applications without too much fuss
You mean really neat looking and shiny applications. A good application is functional and easy to use.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
You mean really neat looking and shiny applications. A good application is functional and easy to use.
Don't put words in my mouth because that's not what I mean. I mean business applications that can be put together quickly and without too much fuss. Yes, it's great to be able to put funky animations into an application, but it's better still to be able to deliver an application without too much hardwork. For instance - rather than having to hardwire menus and toolbars to determine whether or not an item can run, it's better to use routed commands and the rather neat Routed Commands architecture.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I should not have to write XML and hoolaguh boolahuh to make a button on a form. WinForms, GDI/+, OpenGL, and DirectX is all we need!
WinForms? GDI? OpenGL? DirectX?! That's an awful lot of mess and complication there. Gimme a framebuffer and an event queue and i'll give you all the buttons you need. Well, unless you want properly-kerned, nicely-antialiased text on those buttons. Or want them scaled appropriately for the actual resolution of the display. I'll need a bit of extra support for that. Oh, and maybe you'd like to support screen readers and other accessibility tools for disabled users. Yeah, i'll need some extra stuff there too. Oh, you want an image drawn on the button? Loaded from a file at runtime? A vector image, drawn with proper antialiasing, blending, filtering... Yeah, no sense re-inventing the wheel - i guess i could use a bit of support on that front as well. Don't get me wrong - there are problems with WPF, first and foremost that it was released a decade later than it should have been. But there are reasons for a lot of it, and you should learn what those are before talking too much trash. ...And FWIW, you don't actually have to use XAML.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
You don't need antialising, or vector graphics on a button.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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I think people devote too much attention to sparkle and piz'az of the GUI. The GUI should be functional not some kind of art show.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
The GUI should be functional not some kind of art show.
Riiiiight. GUI is all about making it look so good you want to lick it.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "You're an idiot." John Simmons, THE Outlaw programmer "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You don't develop for a living do you?
He said the other day what he does for a living. http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=2605&msg=2529900[^]
Yikes! Reading some of that thread reminded me entirely why I avoid the SB like the plague. What a lot of pointless, witless tripe fermenting in there. If I were Chris I'd dump that crap post haste and show the door to anyone who posted some of what I read there.
"The pursuit of excellence is less profitable than the pursuit of bigness, but it can be more satisfying." - David Ogilvy
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You don't need antialising, or vector graphics on a button.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
:doh: Written a lot of graphical controls from scratch with no supporting framework or library have you? Never mind, after accidentally seeing some of the stuff you've posted in the soapbox just now, I really don't want to talk to you, ever.
"The pursuit of excellence is less profitable than the pursuit of bigness, but it can be more satisfying." - David Ogilvy