Linux exploits and vulnerabilities: All the excuses are valid now!
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jparsons wrote: ( easily runnable from cron ) This 'cron' thing - is that another linux desktop? ;P Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans?Oh, it isn't C. Ron? Hmm... Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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just FYI, not all Linux programmers are working for free. RedHat, for example, employs a bunch of developers, testers, designers, etc. -c
To explain Donald Knuth's relevance to computing is like explaining Paul's relevance to the Catholic Church. He isn't God, he isn't the Son of God, but he was sent by God to explain God to the masses.
/. #3848917Chris Losinger wrote: not all Linux programmers are working for free. RedHat, for example, employs a bunch of developers, testers, designers, etc. I know that, but it only an handful of developers from the linux crowd that don't work for free. And it's not like the linux companies are in a very comfortable economic posicion right now. (Well the same could be said about Enron, Worldcom, etc. but I think you get my point)
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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Eddie Velasquez wrote: But, remember, what do you get with a "free" product? Zero, nada, zip, nothing! Doesn't work? Too bad, How is that any different than anything that comes from Microsoft (or any other software manufacturer for that matter)? ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: How is that any different than anything that comes from Microsoft (or any other software manufacturer for that matter)? I must be the luckiest bastard of the world, because I've never had one thing to complain about Microsoft's support. I even had the explorer and shell lead developer help me out with something I was working on after 24 hours of requesting the help. And no, I didn't work with a huge company, it was you average dot-gone.
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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I'm also against the idea of open source software with regards to the GPL. Don't get me wrong. Russell Morris wrote: I think what alot of Linux zealots seem to forget is that the vast majority of the world A) wants to use a computer for a small, specific set of tasks, and B) can't understand(and does not want to) anything more than double click this and point to that. True, but when I was back at University in 1998, I remember a friend of mine took half the semester just to get X-Windows up and running on his RH box for his final year project. Now you buy a distro put in the CD and voila. Ok maybe it's not still THAT simple on some distros but you can't deny that progress has been made. I don't like Linux zealots any more than you do, but facts are facts. I'll always prefer my brand new XP box (God I love that thing, first computer I ever bought that I actually clean regularly, hehe) but I don't see too many obstacles left for Linux to conquer. Compare Linux of 1998 to Linux of today. You have to admit there has been a great deal of improvment :-) Finish this sentence: We're movin' on up, to the top...
Senkwe Chanda wrote: Compare Linux of 1998 to Linux of today. You have to admit there has been a great deal of improvment Compare the Windows of '94 with the Windows of today. You have to admit there has been a great deal of improvement. :)
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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Why is it that there's no justification for a Windows vulnerability, but when there's a Linux vulnerability all the Windows excuses are suddenly valid?
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
Maybe because Linux was built without a budget and Windows was built by the world's largest, most powerful software company. I'd expect more from a company that charges money for it's OS and has tens of billions in the bank. ------------------------------------------ When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me. - Emo Phillips
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There is a HUGE difference between a student who wants to install Linux and has a resonable idea about computers and your average Joe who just got a computer to balance his checkbook. We have people stamping on mice because they think it is a foot switch. But it is true that Linux is getting easier every day. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: There is a HUGE difference between a student who wants to install Linux and has a resonable idea about computers and your average Joe who just got a computer to balance his checkbook. I think part of the point was that in '98 it took someone with some technical know-how to install Linux, and today it doesn't.
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I'm also against the idea of open source software with regards to the GPL. Don't get me wrong. Russell Morris wrote: I think what alot of Linux zealots seem to forget is that the vast majority of the world A) wants to use a computer for a small, specific set of tasks, and B) can't understand(and does not want to) anything more than double click this and point to that. True, but when I was back at University in 1998, I remember a friend of mine took half the semester just to get X-Windows up and running on his RH box for his final year project. Now you buy a distro put in the CD and voila. Ok maybe it's not still THAT simple on some distros but you can't deny that progress has been made. I don't like Linux zealots any more than you do, but facts are facts. I'll always prefer my brand new XP box (God I love that thing, first computer I ever bought that I actually clean regularly, hehe) but I don't see too many obstacles left for Linux to conquer. Compare Linux of 1998 to Linux of today. You have to admit there has been a great deal of improvment :-) Finish this sentence: We're movin' on up, to the top...
Senkwe Chanda wrote: Compare Linux of 1998 to Linux of today. You have to admit there has been a great deal of improvment Yes, there has been tremendous progress. However, there hasn't been as much progress between 98's linux and today's linux than there has been between Windows 98 and XP. And I think that is because MS pays developers (quite handsomely) to spend all day, every day busting their butt on that one product. It's their full-time job. Not to mention the fact that for every coder working on Windows there's a UI specialist tasked with making sure that the common person can actually make use of it. Linux should be seen for what it is - an ongoing research project. It has made tremendous gains, overcome alot, made lots of people famous, a few rich, provided 'OS Design 101' instructors with the world's best teaching resource, etc... . But it's not a magic bullet (neither was Java or OO). It won't make running lots of servers cheap, nor will it make their administrators less error-prone. It won't make everything secure out-of-the-box. It won't put a computer in every grass hut or ghetto. It won't make people want to work for free, and - for goodness sake! - it won't make people stop needing money to get things done. At the end of the day it is mostly run by academics (who live off of stipends and such) and people contributing in their spare time. Said in a toungue-in-cheek way, it's an asylum that's being run by the inmates. It's awesome for what it's intended to be. The thing is, it's not intended to be the common person's OS. I didn't intend to go into this much of an off-topic rant. I need to get more sleep... -- Russell Morris "WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.
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Tim Smith wrote: There is a HUGE difference between a student who wants to install Linux and has a resonable idea about computers and your average Joe who just got a computer to balance his checkbook. I think part of the point was that in '98 it took someone with some technical know-how to install Linux, and today it doesn't.
and today it doesn't. ROFL. You have to be kidding me. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Maybe because Linux was built without a budget and Windows was built by the world's largest, most powerful software company. I'd expect more from a company that charges money for it's OS and has tens of billions in the bank. ------------------------------------------ When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me. - Emo Phillips
Linux is EXTREMELY well funded. This is another one of the big snow jobs of the last 10 years. While the fan boys work for free, the fat cats cash their checks. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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We'll reach a point where Linux is the dominant OS and then Windows will look sexy again, the same way people think the Mac is superior. Finish this sentence: We're movin' on up, to the top...
Senkwe Chanda wrote: We'll reach a point where Linux is the dominant OS Oh, you have just got to be kidding me, right? With the popularity of PCs for the masses, you now have a very large percentage of people who own PCs and yet are completely intimidated by anything as technical as even a VCR. These are people who have difficulty wiring up their home stereo without calling their techie friends, and there's a lot of them out there. You know, mere mortals? And you think they're going to be able to handle UNIX? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Maybe because Linux was built without a budget and Windows was built by the world's largest, most powerful software company. I'd expect more from a company that charges money for it's OS and has tens of billions in the bank. ------------------------------------------ When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me. - Emo Phillips
Brit wrote: I'd expect more from a company that charges money for it's OS and has tens of billions in the bank. Windows has had problems, like every other piece of software ever coded. But you make it sound like Windows is just a smelly pile of dong and you were ripped off. And I believe it's that is far from the truth. Windows is an amazing piece of software that has allowed even the most technophobic and clueless people access to a computer and the internet. I'd like to see how that could happen with any unix or unix clone out there.
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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Tomasz Sowinski wrote: So - which distro is the best? Debian. Debian's package management system is leagues ahead of any other distros. You can keep your linux system up todate with two simple commands ( easily runnable from cron ) $>apt-getupdate $>apt-getdistupgrade This will not only go out, get the latest debian package for all applications you run. For most daemon applications ( example sshd ) it will stop the daemon and start running the newer version. Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
jparsons wrote: You can keep your linux system up todate with two simple commands ( easily runnable from cron ) Kinda like the single
uptodatecommand in Redhat? :) Although I am not sure if it restarts running dæmons... Peace! -=- James. "There is nothing worse than being oblivious to the fact that you do not know what you are doing." [Get Check Favorites 1.4 Now!] -
jparsons wrote: www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n Go Jackets! :-D -- Russell Morris "WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.
Russell Morris wrote: Go Jackets! And get that staduim built too so we can see some games this coming year. Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
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jparsons wrote: You can keep your linux system up todate with two simple commands ( easily runnable from cron ) Kinda like the single
uptodatecommand in Redhat? :) Although I am not sure if it restarts running dæmons... Peace! -=- James. "There is nothing worse than being oblivious to the fact that you do not know what you are doing." [Get Check Favorites 1.4 Now!]After many terrible, terrible experiences with RPMs I have lost faith in that packaging system. If you downloaded the package you didn't have the dependencies. If you downloaded the dependecies they had dependencies. You have those dependencies but not the right version. You get hte right version. Wait that creates a conflict with the original package. You get hte lastest version. You type rpm --install package. Wait the RPM database crashes. Damnit. Rebuild the database(basically reinstall). This time you're lucky you get it installed. Then you try and update the RPM. Good luck. Their updates almost always failed for me. Maybe uptodate has fixed this. Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
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Brit wrote: I'd expect more from a company that charges money for it's OS and has tens of billions in the bank. Windows has had problems, like every other piece of software ever coded. But you make it sound like Windows is just a smelly pile of dong and you were ripped off. And I believe it's that is far from the truth. Windows is an amazing piece of software that has allowed even the most technophobic and clueless people access to a computer and the internet. I'd like to see how that could happen with any unix or unix clone out there.
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
Windows has had problems, like every other piece of software ever coded. But you make it sound like Windows is just a smelly pile of dong and you were ripped off. I was merely commenting that if a piece of software made makes someone the world's richest man, it should be better than it is. I wasn't saying it was shit. (BTW, I use Windows at home and develop on Windows at work. I'm not some Linux zealot.) ------------------------------------------ When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me. - Emo Phillips
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and today it doesn't. ROFL. You have to be kidding me. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: You have to be kidding me. I have had several occasions where I have poped in a Linux distro, and it took care of everything for me. I mean most times I actually want to customize, but it is certainly possible to have a seemless install (at least no harder than installing a version of windows on a machine). I'm certainly not saying that Linux is anywhere near the level it would need to be for public consumption. I'm just saying that several distros have put together pretty nice installers.
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Tim Smith wrote: You have to be kidding me. I have had several occasions where I have poped in a Linux distro, and it took care of everything for me. I mean most times I actually want to customize, but it is certainly possible to have a seemless install (at least no harder than installing a version of windows on a machine). I'm certainly not saying that Linux is anywhere near the level it would need to be for public consumption. I'm just saying that several distros have put together pretty nice installers.
Ryan Johnston wrote: I have had several occasions where I have poped in a Linux distro, and it took care of everything for me. I mean most times I actually want to customize, but it is certainly possible to have a seemless install (at least no harder than installing a version of windows on a machine).
- Mandrake
- Suse
- Redhat
All of these distros have braindead installs. Last I saw Mandrake had the best install. You could customize it. Options ranged from Braindead(don't remember the exact name ) to Expert ( Used linux for quite some time and this was quite a difficult install). Still Go with Debian. It's install needs some work but once its up. It stays up Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
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After many terrible, terrible experiences with RPMs I have lost faith in that packaging system. If you downloaded the package you didn't have the dependencies. If you downloaded the dependecies they had dependencies. You have those dependencies but not the right version. You get hte right version. Wait that creates a conflict with the original package. You get hte lastest version. You type rpm --install package. Wait the RPM database crashes. Damnit. Rebuild the database(basically reinstall). This time you're lucky you get it installed. Then you try and update the RPM. Good luck. Their updates almost always failed for me. Maybe uptodate has fixed this. Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
jparsons wrote: After many terrible, terrible experiences with RPMs I have lost faith in that packaging system. :wtf: I have never anywhere near that many problems with RPMs. When I do have problems with dependencies, it usually ends up being Operator Failure (IOW: I did not read all of the docs carefully enough). Peace! -=- James. "There is nothing worse than being oblivious to the fact that you do not know what you are doing." [Get Check Favorites 1.4 Now!]
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Windows has had problems, like every other piece of software ever coded. But you make it sound like Windows is just a smelly pile of dong and you were ripped off. I was merely commenting that if a piece of software made makes someone the world's richest man, it should be better than it is. I wasn't saying it was shit. (BTW, I use Windows at home and develop on Windows at work. I'm not some Linux zealot.) ------------------------------------------ When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me. - Emo Phillips
Brit wrote: I wasn't saying it was shit. I read more into your post than was written. I apologize for that.
All of my opinions are correct, even when reality makes the mistake of disagreeing with me.
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jparsons wrote: After many terrible, terrible experiences with RPMs I have lost faith in that packaging system. :wtf: I have never anywhere near that many problems with RPMs. When I do have problems with dependencies, it usually ends up being Operator Failure (IOW: I did not read all of the docs carefully enough). Peace! -=- James. "There is nothing worse than being oblivious to the fact that you do not know what you are doing." [Get Check Favorites 1.4 Now!]
My main gripe was KDE updates/install. I got so frustrated trying to get all of he dependencies met that it turned out to be quicker to build from source. Jared jparsons@jparsons.org www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte477n
