PS3 Nonsense
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Really, I could care less if it played ATARI games or whatever... The point is my expectation was set experience by the prior two models performing a function, that when I purchased it, I was flabbergahsted when it didn't perform the exact function. Imagine if you used Office 2003 on Vista Ultimate at work. Love Vista Ultimate sooo much because of other features as well, loaded it on your PC to come to find out, no, really you can't run Office 2003 on it anymore. We changed that with all distributions after yesterday, but are selling it under the same name. Oh..in that case go buy Windows XP. (sorry if this comes off wrong)
Oh no, I appreciate your point in that you had expectations which Sony failed to meet and in doing so did themselves no favours by losing a customer. I was merely pointing out that other (cheaper) options exist should you still wish to play PS2 games.
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TigerTechie wrote:
Fustrated, I called Sony. They were happy to inform me that only the 20, 60, and 80 GB models play PS2 games and it says it on the box.
But the 40GB model won't? Huh. That seems a rather arbitrary limitation. Is there any other difference between the 40GB model and the others?
TigerTechie wrote:
I am pretty furious at this point, for one that they would eliminate a major feature from the new model without changing the name (like buying a corvette only to learn it runs on deisel) , two, because it is on the box, but I didn't have much time to examine it at the store with my family in tow , and three the sales associates didn't let me know of this major limitation.
Yup, I hear you on that.
TigerTechie wrote:
In the end, I got my money back.
I'm glad to hear it. :) Thanks for the head's up. I've been considering buying a PS3 and now know to watch out for this.
Leslie Sanford wrote:
But the 40GB model won't? Huh. That seems a rather arbitrary limitation. Is there any other difference between the 40GB model and the others?
Here's the differences: 20 gb -- hardware PS2 compatibility, no Wi-Fi, no memory card reader, 4 USB ports 40 gb -- no PS2 compatibility, Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 2 USB ports 60 gb -- hardware PS2 compatibility, Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 4 USB ports 80 gb -- software PS2 compatibility (~85% compatible), Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 4 USB ports Both the 20 gb and 60 gb models are discontinued. 80 gb units are currently being sold with Metal Gear Solid 4 bundled in (can't buy it separately that I can tell). The 40 gb is the only stand-alone version sold at this time. I shudder to think how hard it would be to replace my current 60 gb unit if something happens to it. :( Flynn
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Ok. Now the blue-ray vs. HD-DVD war is over, I thought I would treat my family with a new PS3. ;) My parents bought one six? months ago, so whenever we go over, my kids play it. They bought a few PS2 games for it. Happily I go out to a national retailer to by it. They only had the 40GB model in stock (I could care less since I am not a big gamer) for $399, so while they get the box out of the back, we pick up several games that my parents have for the kids. I make it home (after flipping coins to see which game is played first to stop the fighting), and while I am plugging it in, the kids open all four of the games. I pop it in and get an unrecognized format error. Try another one, same thing. I called my parents to make sure those were PS2 games. Yup. Fustrated, I called Sony. They were happy to inform me that only the 20, 60, and 80 GB models play PS2 games and it says it on the box. :mad: I am pretty furious at this point, for one that they would eliminate a major feature from the new model without changing the name (like buying a corvette only to learn it runs on deisel) :wtf: , two, because it is on the box, but I didn't have much time to examine it at the store with my family in tow :sigh:, and three the sales associates didn't let me know of this major limitation. :confused: So, an hour later, I take it back. No harm, just lost time and my kids are upset. Come to find out, that they have a store policy that does not allow them to take back open games, you will have to talk to the manager. :mad: In the end, I got my money back. :cool:
TigerTechie wrote:
I am pretty furious at this point, for one that they would eliminate a major feature from the new model without changing the name
They actually didn't, however, they modified it. Every PS2 game my son plays on the PS3 works on his model. The difference is perhaps the model, or perhaps my knowlege of the PS3 from research for the Air Force (yeah, I know, odd combo, but hey, it pays the bills). Anyhow The history of the PS3... PS3 enters with a fancy smancy chip that emulates the PS2, compatibility is constant, but poor at about an 80% compatible mark. 20% failure is enough to cause at least a number of customers to get very angry.... Enter phase 2, or model 2, or what every you want to call it. They dropped the emulation chip, and tossed an extra cell on board, and software to emulate the PS2 via software emulation. With software emulation, the compatibility mark started at about 50% which was poor, but with each update, which there have been six since Christmas when my son got his, the compatibility gets better. When we find a game that doesn't work, we update the system software, and viola, it works. We have the software emulation series, 80gb unit. right now the score is 10 for 10 on PS2 and PS3 games look beautiful.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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TigerTechie wrote:
I am pretty furious at this point, for one that they would eliminate a major feature from the new model without changing the name
They actually didn't, however, they modified it. Every PS2 game my son plays on the PS3 works on his model. The difference is perhaps the model, or perhaps my knowlege of the PS3 from research for the Air Force (yeah, I know, odd combo, but hey, it pays the bills). Anyhow The history of the PS3... PS3 enters with a fancy smancy chip that emulates the PS2, compatibility is constant, but poor at about an 80% compatible mark. 20% failure is enough to cause at least a number of customers to get very angry.... Enter phase 2, or model 2, or what every you want to call it. They dropped the emulation chip, and tossed an extra cell on board, and software to emulate the PS2 via software emulation. With software emulation, the compatibility mark started at about 50% which was poor, but with each update, which there have been six since Christmas when my son got his, the compatibility gets better. When we find a game that doesn't work, we update the system software, and viola, it works. We have the software emulation series, 80gb unit. right now the score is 10 for 10 on PS2 and PS3 games look beautiful.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
Only problem is that they don't support it at all on model 2 40GB version (as per Sony customer support). Sucked for me. Since I am not a big gamer, I didn't want to drop the doe for the 80GB version. I tried 4 PS2 games for my kids, a couple of them worked fine on the 20GB or 60GB model (not sure which of the model 1).
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Leslie Sanford wrote:
But the 40GB model won't? Huh. That seems a rather arbitrary limitation. Is there any other difference between the 40GB model and the others?
Here's the differences: 20 gb -- hardware PS2 compatibility, no Wi-Fi, no memory card reader, 4 USB ports 40 gb -- no PS2 compatibility, Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 2 USB ports 60 gb -- hardware PS2 compatibility, Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 4 USB ports 80 gb -- software PS2 compatibility (~85% compatible), Wi-Fi, memory card reader, 4 USB ports Both the 20 gb and 60 gb models are discontinued. 80 gb units are currently being sold with Metal Gear Solid 4 bundled in (can't buy it separately that I can tell). The 40 gb is the only stand-alone version sold at this time. I shudder to think how hard it would be to replace my current 60 gb unit if something happens to it. :( Flynn
Y'all can think yourselves lucky. Here in Aus you can't buy the 80Gb version - so the only available model is 0Gb - no PS2 emulation. The reason is purely financial - Sony Gaming are losing BILLIONS per annum - and these changes haven't hurt sales - they're now outselling Xbox 360 and over the last couple of weeks has outsold the WII (which I find hard to believe - but there you are) Now, if they were smart they would have two models, identical except ofr the backward compatibility - with a price differnce which made sense to them - then we'd have the choice. And the lack of backward compatibility sure has put the price up - just look at EBay prices for 2nd hand 60Gb PS3 - they're going for well over original retail price... Which leads me to wonder - if I put a 60Gb drive in my PS3 I wonder how much I could get for it ??? Nah - that would be plain dishonest :) P.S. Just got these figures Pricing the PlayStation 3 below its production cost caused Sony to lose $2.16 billion in 2007 and $1.16 billion in 2008, the company revealed today. Sony's fiscal 2008 annual report delineated potential risk factors to its investors, outlining that "the large-scale investment required during the development and introductory period of a new gaming platform may not be fully recovered." The loss figures were provided as an example of the "significant negative impact" introducing a new platform can cause at first.
Take a chill pill, Daddy-o .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
modified on Monday, June 23, 2008 11:59 PM
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Only problem is that they don't support it at all on model 2 40GB version (as per Sony customer support). Sucked for me. Since I am not a big gamer, I didn't want to drop the doe for the 80GB version. I tried 4 PS2 games for my kids, a couple of them worked fine on the 20GB or 60GB model (not sure which of the model 1).
There was a huge press release that stated the 'new' PS3 (that 40gig one) would not be compatible with PS2 games. Infact, it showed up on digg 249 days ago. Not that I am saying this is the right or wrong of them to do, but certain people should have known I think...
The Wall Street Journal has a new story up about the price drop of the 80GB PS3 and the upcoming 40GB model. Contained in the article, however, is yet another gem from Sony's camp -- more specifically, president and chief executive officer of Sony's U.S. games division Jack Tretton. According to the WSJ: "Mr. Tretton conceded that removing that capability [backwards compatibility], along with a few other features, isn't dramatically reducing Sony's cost of manufacturing the console but will instead encourage buyers of the entry-level PlayStation 3 to purchase more games designed specifically for the new system." The article continues, "Mr. Tretton said the company's research showed that compatibility with PlayStation 2 games isn't likely to be missed by customers, who most likely already own the older system." I guess Sony's research camp didn't discuss their findings with the NPD, who found that BC was very important to gamers.
Like the article[^] says, I guess they were wrong... (I post that one because I do not have access to the online WSJ)
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Not even vaguely.....as it happens, the only reason that I even have a PS3 is cos I got it free with my phone - I was a Wii owner LONG before that..... If anything, I'm a Samsung fan - phones, tvs, dvd players et al are all Samsung in my house :). Pesonally I wouldn't touch Sony kit - too overpriced and not functional enough for me I'm afraid.....
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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RichardGrimmer wrote:
Absolute rubbish.....even for those models that were able to play PS2 game, it's CLEARLY stated in the manual that they may not play correctly or at all....
Dude, I had to BUY it first to read the manual. And what engineer reads manuals? ;)
RichardGrimmer wrote:
I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for you - ....let's call a spade a spade here - it says it all over the box, and if you didn't read that, who's fualt is it?
You are right. It is my fault for not reading the box first. The problem is that they changed the feature set without changing the product name. If my kids had never experienced playing PS2 games on a PS3, I probably would not have ever have tried. But they did, so I expected it to continue to do so under the same product name. So in a nutshell... 20GB - My kids played Sonic the Hedgehog (PS2) on a PS3. 40GB - They could not play Sonic the Hedgehog (PS2) on a PS3. They should have named the 40GB model the PS3-2. No problem from me.
TigerTechie wrote:
Dude, I had to BUY it first to read the manual. And what engineer reads manuals?
Sorry - should've been clearer - it mentions that the 40GB won't play on the box, but for those that do play them, it mentions that they might not play completely correctly in the manual....
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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Y'all can think yourselves lucky. Here in Aus you can't buy the 80Gb version - so the only available model is 0Gb - no PS2 emulation. The reason is purely financial - Sony Gaming are losing BILLIONS per annum - and these changes haven't hurt sales - they're now outselling Xbox 360 and over the last couple of weeks has outsold the WII (which I find hard to believe - but there you are) Now, if they were smart they would have two models, identical except ofr the backward compatibility - with a price differnce which made sense to them - then we'd have the choice. And the lack of backward compatibility sure has put the price up - just look at EBay prices for 2nd hand 60Gb PS3 - they're going for well over original retail price... Which leads me to wonder - if I put a 60Gb drive in my PS3 I wonder how much I could get for it ??? Nah - that would be plain dishonest :) P.S. Just got these figures Pricing the PlayStation 3 below its production cost caused Sony to lose $2.16 billion in 2007 and $1.16 billion in 2008, the company revealed today. Sony's fiscal 2008 annual report delineated potential risk factors to its investors, outlining that "the large-scale investment required during the development and introductory period of a new gaming platform may not be fully recovered." The loss figures were provided as an example of the "significant negative impact" introducing a new platform can cause at first.
Take a chill pill, Daddy-o .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
modified on Monday, June 23, 2008 11:59 PM
maxxx# wrote:
Which leads me to wonder - if I put a 60Gb drive in my PS3 I wonder how much I could get for it ??? Nah - that would be plain dishonest
Nothing like snarking off a customer, eh? :) I picked up my PS3 in March '07 just after they announced the European consoles would have the software PS2 emulation. Backwards compatibility was pretty important to me (I have around 160 PS2 games), so I figured I'd better get the system with hardware emulation. I wonder how many people in Europe imported the NA or Asian consoles? Games aren't region-locked, only the movies. Flynn
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maxxx# wrote:
Which leads me to wonder - if I put a 60Gb drive in my PS3 I wonder how much I could get for it ??? Nah - that would be plain dishonest
Nothing like snarking off a customer, eh? :) I picked up my PS3 in March '07 just after they announced the European consoles would have the software PS2 emulation. Backwards compatibility was pretty important to me (I have around 160 PS2 games), so I figured I'd better get the system with hardware emulation. I wonder how many people in Europe imported the NA or Asian consoles? Games aren't region-locked, only the movies. Flynn
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I must be getting old - I don't know what "snarking off" means!
Take a chill pill, Daddy-o .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
The same as angering or annoying. :) Flynn
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The same as angering or annoying. :) Flynn
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There was a huge press release that stated the 'new' PS3 (that 40gig one) would not be compatible with PS2 games. Infact, it showed up on digg 249 days ago. Not that I am saying this is the right or wrong of them to do, but certain people should have known I think...
The Wall Street Journal has a new story up about the price drop of the 80GB PS3 and the upcoming 40GB model. Contained in the article, however, is yet another gem from Sony's camp -- more specifically, president and chief executive officer of Sony's U.S. games division Jack Tretton. According to the WSJ: "Mr. Tretton conceded that removing that capability [backwards compatibility], along with a few other features, isn't dramatically reducing Sony's cost of manufacturing the console but will instead encourage buyers of the entry-level PlayStation 3 to purchase more games designed specifically for the new system." The article continues, "Mr. Tretton said the company's research showed that compatibility with PlayStation 2 games isn't likely to be missed by customers, who most likely already own the older system." I guess Sony's research camp didn't discuss their findings with the NPD, who found that BC was very important to gamers.
Like the article[^] says, I guess they were wrong... (I post that one because I do not have access to the online WSJ)
I'm grateful I was able to get one of the original 60 gb units before they started neutering the backwards compatibility. I'd hate to get a second copy of Metal Gear Solid 4 just to have gimped BC. :( Though I've been toying with the idea of getting a 40 gb unit to hook up in the bedroom with the PS2. Could use a second Blu-Ray player... :-\ Flynn