What would you do [modified]
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Been a 12 year system coder on Win/xNix. Coded working demos for 128 byte compos in assembly in old days, versatile in asm/C/C++/C#, got to know Delphi along the way, VB enough to translate to C, etc, but most of what I did for production purposes was Web related (ASP, PHP, .NET, anything capable of JS), Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL... Been a developer, team leader, project manager too. However, my employer insist that I stay support for clients just because I know English well and can talk to them without insulting them. I hate being a support, but in area where I am there are no better jobs and my employer is seeking about 12 senior positions on market I'm more than fit to fill. Of course, they ignored my numerous requests to advance. I had one "promotion" from senior analyst programmer to head of support & maintenance, where I got two additional team members, of which one was C# expert, but it turned out that she doesn't know that C is case-sensitive language. In 5 years of service I had no salary increase. Say, what would you do? In my area, company I work for is like a Microsoft, but I feel as welcome desk receptionist there. I keep forgetting what I knew and am learning nothing new, but salary is good - the only reason I keep reconsidering over years. Boss is the girl straight from collage, no experience, but drives a team of ten (given unto her for reasons unknown) and insisting that we share knowledge, which she doesn't have. I know this is a developer's hell, my personal hell for sure that I don't wish for anyone. But job pays well. What is the tradeoff in your opinion?
modified on Monday, July 7, 2008 11:16 PM
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Been a 12 year system coder on Win/xNix. Coded working demos for 128 byte compos in assembly in old days, versatile in asm/C/C++/C#, got to know Delphi along the way, VB enough to translate to C, etc, but most of what I did for production purposes was Web related (ASP, PHP, .NET, anything capable of JS), Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL... Been a developer, team leader, project manager too. However, my employer insist that I stay support for clients just because I know English well and can talk to them without insulting them. I hate being a support, but in area where I am there are no better jobs and my employer is seeking about 12 senior positions on market I'm more than fit to fill. Of course, they ignored my numerous requests to advance. I had one "promotion" from senior analyst programmer to head of support & maintenance, where I got two additional team members, of which one was C# expert, but it turned out that she doesn't know that C is case-sensitive language. In 5 years of service I had no salary increase. Say, what would you do? In my area, company I work for is like a Microsoft, but I feel as welcome desk receptionist there. I keep forgetting what I knew and am learning nothing new, but salary is good - the only reason I keep reconsidering over years. Boss is the girl straight from collage, no experience, but drives a team of ten (given unto her for reasons unknown) and insisting that we share knowledge, which she doesn't have. I know this is a developer's hell, my personal hell for sure that I don't wish for anyone. But job pays well. What is the tradeoff in your opinion?
modified on Monday, July 7, 2008 11:16 PM
Vladimir S. wrote:
But job pays well.
Support is a burn-out position, use the money if it pays that well, to set you up for something better. FIND something better, you will have to take an active part. I had a lousy job when I started. I spent 2 years working my way into a new position (once I realized I needed to move). I jumped from accounting to engineering. But I had to work to get what I wanted. If you are waiting for your ship to come in, try setting sail to meet it. :)
Last modified: 53mins after originally posted --
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Been a 12 year system coder on Win/xNix. Coded working demos for 128 byte compos in assembly in old days, versatile in asm/C/C++/C#, got to know Delphi along the way, VB enough to translate to C, etc, but most of what I did for production purposes was Web related (ASP, PHP, .NET, anything capable of JS), Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL... Been a developer, team leader, project manager too. However, my employer insist that I stay support for clients just because I know English well and can talk to them without insulting them. I hate being a support, but in area where I am there are no better jobs and my employer is seeking about 12 senior positions on market I'm more than fit to fill. Of course, they ignored my numerous requests to advance. I had one "promotion" from senior analyst programmer to head of support & maintenance, where I got two additional team members, of which one was C# expert, but it turned out that she doesn't know that C is case-sensitive language. In 5 years of service I had no salary increase. Say, what would you do? In my area, company I work for is like a Microsoft, but I feel as welcome desk receptionist there. I keep forgetting what I knew and am learning nothing new, but salary is good - the only reason I keep reconsidering over years. Boss is the girl straight from collage, no experience, but drives a team of ten (given unto her for reasons unknown) and insisting that we share knowledge, which she doesn't have. I know this is a developer's hell, my personal hell for sure that I don't wish for anyone. But job pays well. What is the tradeoff in your opinion?
modified on Monday, July 7, 2008 11:16 PM
It must have paid REAL well if it still pays well and you haven't had a rise in 5 years! Only you can make the call; what's more important? The cash or job satisfaction? If there's really nothing else in your area - then how much do you like living there? Why not move somewhere else? How busy are you? If you have time to spare, then use it productively to improve whatever skills you think will make you able to get the position you want - either in your company or another. Also remember to look at it from both angles - are you really not getting the move because of your good english skiolls - or is that an excuse? Perhaps the powers that be don't appreciate your skills. If they ar advertising externlly - why not apply externally for one of the jobs - make up a pseudonym if you need to and don't mention which company you work for (obviously). Would be interesting if you then got an interview... good luck!
Take a chill pill, Daddy-o .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Vladimir S. wrote:
But job pays well.
Support is a burn-out position, use the money if it pays that well, to set you up for something better. FIND something better, you will have to take an active part. I had a lousy job when I started. I spent 2 years working my way into a new position (once I realized I needed to move). I jumped from accounting to engineering. But I had to work to get what I wanted. If you are waiting for your ship to come in, try setting sail to meet it. :)
Last modified: 53mins after originally posted --
El Corazon wrote:
If you are waiting for your ship to come in, try setting sail to meet it.
Good point, there.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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El Corazon wrote:
If you are waiting for your ship to come in, try setting sail to meet it.
Good point, there.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
Good point, there.
when people find out I was once an accountant their first question is "how did you manage that?" I wanted to change, I needed new skills, I acquired them, I needed connections, I acquired them, I needed to brag more about myself, so I achieved something worth bragging about through side jobs. All in all I made a reputation that I could do the job, and then moved to the job I wanted. I didn't wait around and hope things got better, I just set my eyes on what I wanted and then jumped for it. When the chance was offered, I jumped without a second thought. Accounting was boring, now I do a few more fun things. :)
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Paul Conrad wrote:
Good point, there.
when people find out I was once an accountant their first question is "how did you manage that?" I wanted to change, I needed new skills, I acquired them, I needed connections, I acquired them, I needed to brag more about myself, so I achieved something worth bragging about through side jobs. All in all I made a reputation that I could do the job, and then moved to the job I wanted. I didn't wait around and hope things got better, I just set my eyes on what I wanted and then jumped for it. When the chance was offered, I jumped without a second thought. Accounting was boring, now I do a few more fun things. :)
El Corazon wrote:
I didn't wait around and hope things got better
No, you can't do that since some other guy could beat you to the better things.
El Corazon wrote:
I just set my eyes on what I wanted and then jumped for it. When the chance was offered, I jumped without a second thought.
That is good. Have you ever considered being an inspirational speaker?
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Been a 12 year system coder on Win/xNix. Coded working demos for 128 byte compos in assembly in old days, versatile in asm/C/C++/C#, got to know Delphi along the way, VB enough to translate to C, etc, but most of what I did for production purposes was Web related (ASP, PHP, .NET, anything capable of JS), Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL... Been a developer, team leader, project manager too. However, my employer insist that I stay support for clients just because I know English well and can talk to them without insulting them. I hate being a support, but in area where I am there are no better jobs and my employer is seeking about 12 senior positions on market I'm more than fit to fill. Of course, they ignored my numerous requests to advance. I had one "promotion" from senior analyst programmer to head of support & maintenance, where I got two additional team members, of which one was C# expert, but it turned out that she doesn't know that C is case-sensitive language. In 5 years of service I had no salary increase. Say, what would you do? In my area, company I work for is like a Microsoft, but I feel as welcome desk receptionist there. I keep forgetting what I knew and am learning nothing new, but salary is good - the only reason I keep reconsidering over years. Boss is the girl straight from collage, no experience, but drives a team of ten (given unto her for reasons unknown) and insisting that we share knowledge, which she doesn't have. I know this is a developer's hell, my personal hell for sure that I don't wish for anyone. But job pays well. What is the tradeoff in your opinion?
modified on Monday, July 7, 2008 11:16 PM
"I hate being a support" Your obviously not happy, so move on. It may require you to leave the area, which can be very stressful on you and family for the short term, but in the long term it can be a great move. "in area where I am there are no better jobs and my employer is seeking about 12 senior positions on market I'm more than fit to fill." Nothing better then support at any other company??? You are being taken advantage of big guy. Heck take a support job somewhere else that would give opportunity for advancement is better then what you describe. So, suck it up and stay in a dead end lousy job, look hard for a different job somewhere else (even in a different area) and become happy and satisfied again or maybe just start your own business...Best of luck.
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El Corazon wrote:
I didn't wait around and hope things got better
No, you can't do that since some other guy could beat you to the better things.
El Corazon wrote:
I just set my eyes on what I wanted and then jumped for it. When the chance was offered, I jumped without a second thought.
That is good. Have you ever considered being an inspirational speaker?
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
That is good. Have you ever considered being an inspirational speaker?
two divorces, abused as a child and by my 2nd wife? naw, not very inspirational. :)
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Paul Conrad wrote:
That is good. Have you ever considered being an inspirational speaker?
two divorces, abused as a child and by my 2nd wife? naw, not very inspirational. :)
Actually, yes it is. All that and you've turned out a good person, not a sociopath. "I have overcome" has far more inspirational potential than "My life has always been peaches and cream".
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Actually, yes it is. All that and you've turned out a good person, not a sociopath. "I have overcome" has far more inspirational potential than "My life has always been peaches and cream".
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
dan neely wrote:
Actually, yes it is. All that and you've turned out a good person, not a sociopath.
and if I play "El Mariachi" on the weekends where is your theory? ;) there is always choice. My brother came through the same environment, disturbing enough having him as a brother, any crime acclaimed to him would not surprise me, any. A human being can come through any environment with three choices: choose the same path, choice the opposite path (not always a good path), or choose his/her own path. A good upbringing can produce a bad egg, a bad upbringing can produce a good egg. The latter is rarer because of the first two choices tend to be the most common out of fear. Fear is never a good reason for choice, and rarely produces good results. I took the second choice, and didn't fair so good, but I knew something was still wrong, so I chose to get help understanding. The hardest part of abuse, and what is least able to help someone outside understand is that... well, you don't know another world, or at least you can't understand another world. No matter what choice you make it is based on a world of bad examples, the only good path through that is pure luck. I was not so lucky. :) But I do have a head that continuously asks questions, and even though I knew nothing else, and though my mistakes kept emulating that environment, I had to ask myself why. And why led to change, lots and lots of change, and lots and lots of hard work. But as far as inspiration... I got my job here before I got out of my bad mind at home. I had completely separated my home and work life. At home you would not have recognized me, meek and timid, and easily abused. At work, although still a bit timid, I was eager, hungry for knowledge and enthusiastic about my work. Work was a rescue from home, which went unnoticed, but not unsurprising once the truth came out. Still, I got help, I learned a better life, and I learned to take the good things about my work personality and spread it throughout my life so that my mind never finished the break of personalities completely. Had things continued, chances are things would have gotten a lot more messy, mentally. :)