The big problem – Another View
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Reverend Stan wrote: No, I'm pretty sure he meant: "Any opinion that disagrees with my party line dogma is party line dogma". I think that whatever he meant with the words is his to say. You can't be 'pretty sure', you can only 'think' or 'believe'. Reverend Stan wrote: Everyone believes that their opinion is uniquely free of 'party line' thinking, regardless of how dogmatic it actually is. How many people do you know closely? 100? 1000? 10000? how many people are alive right now? do you think that the percent of people you 'know for sure' is enough to support such a claim? Excuse me, but I think it is a bit childish to arrive to such a 'definite' result except if it was supported by a fairly solid 'information' base. Also, I am quite curious about your sources and your 'education' about Islam. I am a muslim, in particular, I am a Palestinian. Let me start out by making the following statements: 1- If I knew were bin laden was, I would go shoot him myself. 2- I really believe what they do is wrong, absolutly wrong, though I do sympathize with their reasons. At least our suicidals, which come out of a situation I know very well. Reverend Stan wrote: But it is very difficult for me to understand how any sane civilization could think that any thing we have done could warrent such violence. The way you put it, it seems the whole islamic world (or should I say more specifically, the Arab World) prepared for this 'violence'. Bin Laden is no civilization. period. Reverend Stan wrote: I do not believe that the source of Islamic rage is based upon mere disagreements over Cold War policies, anti-communism, the Shah (sp?), or Israel (which is of mere symbolic importance to Islam). The real issue is not 'islamic' rage, although rage is an issue. It is more of a 'popular' rage. The people are angry. Sadly, some people are using this rage along with a distorted Islam to gain power, money, or both. Why there is rage, however, the reasons vary. Palestinians, for example, are quite angry that USA is always siding with Israel, something which we believe is not fair. And BTW, Israel is not of mere sybolic importance to Islam. Again I am curious about your sources on Islam. The importance is summed in two words: Palestine and Al-Quds (Jerusalem), and I don't think these words are considered 'merely symbolic', at least not with more than 4 million refugees scattered around the region
For what it is worth, I am no friend of Israel. I think the most stupid thing the U.N., and the U.S., ever did was to support the establishment of a Jewish state. If it disappeared tomorrow I would shed no tears. However, I have to disagree with you. If Israel gave in to every Arab demand, it would solve nothing. Hell, if they bowed gracefully and floated away on the Mediterranian it would solve nothing, and you know it. The Palestinians would still be as poor and hungry and crowded as they are now. Your Arab brothers would happily stand and watch you starve. Nothing would be different, nothing would be gained, so what the hell are you fighting for? The Palestinians are being played for saps by the rest of the Arab world. You guys are being used to keep the entire Arab world in aggitation against the west. Your real enemies are your own leaders, and they don't want to give you the opportunity to stop for a moment and think about that. Your blood keeps them in power. They use Israel to keep things stirred up. Without Israel, the Islamic leadership of the Middle East would be doomed, you guys would turn on them and rip their throats out. Which is what they are afraid of, and so richly deserve. You need to wake up and realize that. What is my source of information on the Arab world? I admit I am no student of Islam. I try to stay well read on world news, and I try to make sense of things in my own way. I read many different sources. It is obvious that terrorist operate openly through out that entire region, they derive support from the wealthy and the common people alike. Something has gone horribly wrong in your culture, and it is not about Israel or the U.S. It can't be. You guys need to take a long hard look at yourselves and back off from this insanity before it is too late. There is absolutely no reason for any of this crap. MSH_ILC wrote: A question : Doesn't the Right Of Vito contradict with the principles of Democracy? that Everbody is equal => Everybody has equal vote ? It is not a right for the USA alone but I am 20 years old I don't recall hearing about anybody using it except the USA. The U.S. is *not* a democracy, and we never have been, we are a Constitutional Republic. The power to veto is granted by our Constitution. MSH_ILC wrote: Please, if you think anything in my post offends you, or assaults you in anyway, I apologize. I only want to comunicate what I think, of the situation and of your opinion, and
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For what it is worth, I am no friend of Israel. I think the most stupid thing the U.N., and the U.S., ever did was to support the establishment of a Jewish state. If it disappeared tomorrow I would shed no tears. However, I have to disagree with you. If Israel gave in to every Arab demand, it would solve nothing. Hell, if they bowed gracefully and floated away on the Mediterranian it would solve nothing, and you know it. The Palestinians would still be as poor and hungry and crowded as they are now. Your Arab brothers would happily stand and watch you starve. Nothing would be different, nothing would be gained, so what the hell are you fighting for? The Palestinians are being played for saps by the rest of the Arab world. You guys are being used to keep the entire Arab world in aggitation against the west. Your real enemies are your own leaders, and they don't want to give you the opportunity to stop for a moment and think about that. Your blood keeps them in power. They use Israel to keep things stirred up. Without Israel, the Islamic leadership of the Middle East would be doomed, you guys would turn on them and rip their throats out. Which is what they are afraid of, and so richly deserve. You need to wake up and realize that. What is my source of information on the Arab world? I admit I am no student of Islam. I try to stay well read on world news, and I try to make sense of things in my own way. I read many different sources. It is obvious that terrorist operate openly through out that entire region, they derive support from the wealthy and the common people alike. Something has gone horribly wrong in your culture, and it is not about Israel or the U.S. It can't be. You guys need to take a long hard look at yourselves and back off from this insanity before it is too late. There is absolutely no reason for any of this crap. MSH_ILC wrote: A question : Doesn't the Right Of Vito contradict with the principles of Democracy? that Everbody is equal => Everybody has equal vote ? It is not a right for the USA alone but I am 20 years old I don't recall hearing about anybody using it except the USA. The U.S. is *not* a democracy, and we never have been, we are a Constitutional Republic. The power to veto is granted by our Constitution. MSH_ILC wrote: Please, if you think anything in my post offends you, or assaults you in anyway, I apologize. I only want to comunicate what I think, of the situation and of your opinion, and
There are a couple of points I'd like to make clear. When I asked about your sources I meant Islam and not arab world, for your sources about arab world were fairly correct in general. For example what you said about arab leaders I admit is quite right. To talk about the 'arab world' means talking about two kinds of people; The Leaders, and The Rest. The Leaders have money and power, The Rest havn't. Yes, the arab leaders are abusing the palestinian cause for personal profit, or a as a cartoon that appeared in one of our newspapers said, "We are quite prepared to fight Israel until the last palestinian blood-drop" and sometimes "~ the last palestinian child". Terrorism has been unfairly linked to Islam and the Arabs. Well yes, we do have our criminals and wackos, and I also admit we have more than a fair share of terrorists. Where do these come from? This is a painful subject, at least to me. Sadly, most arab-based terrorist groups are Islam-based, or should I say claim they are Islam-based and that they are doing the will of God. That really hurt the picture of Islam. Moreover, some of our own cultural flows are linked to Islam as an excuse to avoid discussion about their 'wrong'ness or 'right'ness. This has resulted in a quite distorted and blurry picture of Islam. Some people use this picture to further their own agendas in the name of Islam. Terrorists, leaders and the like. About terrorists claiming the act in the name of God and by the directions of Islam. I won't go much into this. I think it is enough to tell you some of the directions the prophet Mohammad always gave to his soldiers before battle. It goes like this: "A man who is in his house is under protection. A man who drops his weapon is under protection. Do not kill the women. Do not kill the children. Do not kill the old. If you go into a room and find someone praying, leave him be. Do not burn houses, and do not take what is not yours. Do not burn trees, and do not kill animals, unless it was needed for food. ...". Any resemblance to what BinLaden's plane jockeys did? What I wanted to point out was the wrong picture of Islam everybody is being given. Most of it, sadly, comes from muslims. Muslims who fell under the guidance of demons in the guise of priests. What they are doing is not Islam. People in the arab world support these? Unwillingly. An opposed opinion is called a Heretic. And sadly we don't enjoy the freedom of opinion you have. Some people do protest, but they are silenced and kicked aside by the Leadership, which is rea