What a day!
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Phew! I got home from work last night (Fri night), went to the PC (which was on) and tried to use it. Bah! Nothing. Turns out my HDD had crashed. So this morning I hunted down a new HDD, a OEM WinXP, and spent the rest of the morning installing all this. Not quite the way I had pictured spending my Saturday morning. I'm currently downloading the .NET SDK to reinstall. Wooo Hooo! It's finished. See ya!
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Phew! I got home from work last night (Fri night), went to the PC (which was on) and tried to use it. Bah! Nothing. Turns out my HDD had crashed. So this morning I hunted down a new HDD, a OEM WinXP, and spent the rest of the morning installing all this. Not quite the way I had pictured spending my Saturday morning. I'm currently downloading the .NET SDK to reinstall. Wooo Hooo! It's finished. See ya!
This waste of time is sadly common and is not going to change anytime soon, MS and vendors are more than happy to make you think about buying another PC once your first PC crashes, The fact the a HDD crashes is by nature - it may happen through the years - but the fact that the OSes have no recovery tools is beyond my shame thresholds, I happen to have had similar problems with a new HDD, the master boot record was obviously gone berzerk, and none of the OS cmdline tools (fixmbr, ...) have made it run again. To recover from crash, I should in fact have bought a recovery tool BEFORE and installed it BEFORE I crashed, which is of course utterly stupid, In other words, the "grand public" computers have never been reliable, and I am afraid will never,
And I swallow a small raisin.
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This waste of time is sadly common and is not going to change anytime soon, MS and vendors are more than happy to make you think about buying another PC once your first PC crashes, The fact the a HDD crashes is by nature - it may happen through the years - but the fact that the OSes have no recovery tools is beyond my shame thresholds, I happen to have had similar problems with a new HDD, the master boot record was obviously gone berzerk, and none of the OS cmdline tools (fixmbr, ...) have made it run again. To recover from crash, I should in fact have bought a recovery tool BEFORE and installed it BEFORE I crashed, which is of course utterly stupid, In other words, the "grand public" computers have never been reliable, and I am afraid will never,
And I swallow a small raisin.
This was, I think, an unrecoverable crash. After trying to recover last night, I decided to reinstall the OS. Couldn't even format the drive. Luckily, I didn't lose any source code. My projects directory is on another drive, which is stored on the main drive as source control. So I only lost my history, not the whole lot. StephaneRodriguez wrote: In other words, the "grand public" computers have never been reliable, and I am afraid will never, I'll disagree with you there. Computers per se, are fairly reliable. I've had one disk crash before. So long ago that I can't remember when or the circumstances. My old 200MHz Pentium died a few years ago too. But I've had to replace my other consumer electronics as well. My TV recently wore out. My second VCR is wearing out too. CD player recently died. So as far as computers go, I think they are just about on par with every other electronic gizmo.
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This was, I think, an unrecoverable crash. After trying to recover last night, I decided to reinstall the OS. Couldn't even format the drive. Luckily, I didn't lose any source code. My projects directory is on another drive, which is stored on the main drive as source control. So I only lost my history, not the whole lot. StephaneRodriguez wrote: In other words, the "grand public" computers have never been reliable, and I am afraid will never, I'll disagree with you there. Computers per se, are fairly reliable. I've had one disk crash before. So long ago that I can't remember when or the circumstances. My old 200MHz Pentium died a few years ago too. But I've had to replace my other consumer electronics as well. My TV recently wore out. My second VCR is wearing out too. CD player recently died. So as far as computers go, I think they are just about on par with every other electronic gizmo.
Londo wrote: So as far as computers go, I think they are just about on par with every other electronic gizmo. Eh..eh... do you start/stop your PC in a fraction of second, like other electronic stuff ? Though W2K boasts process isolation, I happen almost half of the time to be forced to be physically here for the couple minutes after I have told the OS to shut down, and help the system kill the running processes. This happens both for my home PC, and 3 PCs at work. Besides that, the OS is not transaction based. Everything you ask it to do may end up with GPF!, no rollback or intermediate save, and btw lost work:((. Figure out we are in 2002 !
And I swallow a small raisin.
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Londo wrote: So as far as computers go, I think they are just about on par with every other electronic gizmo. Eh..eh... do you start/stop your PC in a fraction of second, like other electronic stuff ? Though W2K boasts process isolation, I happen almost half of the time to be forced to be physically here for the couple minutes after I have told the OS to shut down, and help the system kill the running processes. This happens both for my home PC, and 3 PCs at work. Besides that, the OS is not transaction based. Everything you ask it to do may end up with GPF!, no rollback or intermediate save, and btw lost work:((. Figure out we are in 2002 !
And I swallow a small raisin.
StephaneRodriguez wrote: Eh..eh... do you start/stop your PC in a fraction of second, like other electronic stuff ? No. Nor do I expect to. My PC is not a radio, VCR, or toaster. It has different functionality, so I expect different behaviour. I was talking about reliability. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Though W2K boasts process isolation, I happen almost half of the time to be forced to be physically here for the couple minutes after I have told the OS to shut down, and help the system kill the running processes. This happens both for my home PC, and 3 PCs at work. Sometimes happens for me with NT at work. Usually MSDev or Rational Rose doesnt properly shut down. That's not the OS by the way, or the hardware. That's the program that you are running that is at fault. W2K, I rarely, if ever have had those sort of problems. The only times I've ever had a freeze where I had to hit reset are when I'm playing a game. I don't remember the last time I had to restart to solve a problem caused by the OS or non-game software. AFAIC, thats more of an indictment on the game developers than on the hardware and OS. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Besides that, the OS is not transaction based. I'm not sure I see need for a transaction based OS. Surely that's what the application software is meant to do? Interesting idea though. I wonder what sort of performance hit would be caused by this? StephaneRodriguez wrote: Everything you ask it to do may end up with GPF!, no rollback or intermediate save, and btw lost work. Again, in my experience, very rare. And, also again, the application should manage this. Excel does autosave, for example.
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StephaneRodriguez wrote: Eh..eh... do you start/stop your PC in a fraction of second, like other electronic stuff ? No. Nor do I expect to. My PC is not a radio, VCR, or toaster. It has different functionality, so I expect different behaviour. I was talking about reliability. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Though W2K boasts process isolation, I happen almost half of the time to be forced to be physically here for the couple minutes after I have told the OS to shut down, and help the system kill the running processes. This happens both for my home PC, and 3 PCs at work. Sometimes happens for me with NT at work. Usually MSDev or Rational Rose doesnt properly shut down. That's not the OS by the way, or the hardware. That's the program that you are running that is at fault. W2K, I rarely, if ever have had those sort of problems. The only times I've ever had a freeze where I had to hit reset are when I'm playing a game. I don't remember the last time I had to restart to solve a problem caused by the OS or non-game software. AFAIC, thats more of an indictment on the game developers than on the hardware and OS. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Besides that, the OS is not transaction based. I'm not sure I see need for a transaction based OS. Surely that's what the application software is meant to do? Interesting idea though. I wonder what sort of performance hit would be caused by this? StephaneRodriguez wrote: Everything you ask it to do may end up with GPF!, no rollback or intermediate save, and btw lost work. Again, in my experience, very rare. And, also again, the application should manage this. Excel does autosave, for example.
Londo wrote: AFAIC, thats more of an indictment on the game developers than on the hardware and OS. Well actually no, for instance display card drivers are hardly certified (MS WDM certification or something like that) before they go in the market. Those that pass certification are only the leaders and, guess what, they also happen to have agreed on distribution deals with MS (from a former semi-public DirectX ng the MS/nVidia connivance was clear). This does not result in quality products for the end user, unless you choose that one. Cheap PCs don't have that one. Unfortunately, you develop programs that are meant to run properly, even of those cheap PCs. MS must go back to the basics to show they are willing to bring quality products in the future. Lately, I have seen too much programs that don't run on someonelse machines, though well coded and properly using COM interfaces and stuff like that. The ability to run the program you have developed on someone else's machine is the basis of everything for the whole software industry. That's where we are today, in 2002, and I see regression in the future especially with the already many incompatible and non-versioned .Net framework run-times we have. Yes I personally think about doing programs just for me, to avoid these troubles. What a shame!:(( Londo wrote: I wonder what sort of performance hit would be caused by this? Don't know either. What I know however is the slow down when I run VS.Net. Or when I start my home computer with those many more started services than before. I believe we could have a fairly decent trade off between all those MS object-based OS layers, on top of which is based .Net, and the possible apparition of a new OS with built-in transactions. If we don't give up all this code layers, then yes soon we'll need a 2Ghz/15000RPM/512MB system to run Word. All what I see from this is customers forced to buy new hardware, and new OS licenses. Product quality becomes an option, for those that can afford it. That's not exactly the way I see computing stuff help everyone's life.
And I swallow a small raisin.
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StephaneRodriguez wrote: Eh..eh... do you start/stop your PC in a fraction of second, like other electronic stuff ? No. Nor do I expect to. My PC is not a radio, VCR, or toaster. It has different functionality, so I expect different behaviour. I was talking about reliability. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Though W2K boasts process isolation, I happen almost half of the time to be forced to be physically here for the couple minutes after I have told the OS to shut down, and help the system kill the running processes. This happens both for my home PC, and 3 PCs at work. Sometimes happens for me with NT at work. Usually MSDev or Rational Rose doesnt properly shut down. That's not the OS by the way, or the hardware. That's the program that you are running that is at fault. W2K, I rarely, if ever have had those sort of problems. The only times I've ever had a freeze where I had to hit reset are when I'm playing a game. I don't remember the last time I had to restart to solve a problem caused by the OS or non-game software. AFAIC, thats more of an indictment on the game developers than on the hardware and OS. StephaneRodriguez wrote: Besides that, the OS is not transaction based. I'm not sure I see need for a transaction based OS. Surely that's what the application software is meant to do? Interesting idea though. I wonder what sort of performance hit would be caused by this? StephaneRodriguez wrote: Everything you ask it to do may end up with GPF!, no rollback or intermediate save, and btw lost work. Again, in my experience, very rare. And, also again, the application should manage this. Excel does autosave, for example.
Try to explain a normal person that : - he must click on start to shut down - the user has to agree total lack of product or hardware support when proceeding with a EULA - understand the logics behind a RAS connection before being able to connect the net, depending on the sequence of how some software has been installed - we developers distribute programs made with MSDev, a program which in turn often crashes itself for any reason - programs that he might install might without notice take total control of whatever happens (trendy ::SetWindowsHookEx) and no one will ever be responsible for it. Of course, unless reformatting and reinstalling the operating system, the normal user may solve his problem by $paying$ MS support. The normal user is of course recommended to buy books (one per month for instance) to make sure he gets the best of his commie, even though in fact all what the user wants is type and print letters with any Word processor. - explain the user that software developers are locked by third party patents in whatever good they might do in the market - explain the user that freely sharing photos he made with his camera will soon be thing of the past
And I swallow a small raisin.
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This waste of time is sadly common and is not going to change anytime soon, MS and vendors are more than happy to make you think about buying another PC once your first PC crashes, The fact the a HDD crashes is by nature - it may happen through the years - but the fact that the OSes have no recovery tools is beyond my shame thresholds, I happen to have had similar problems with a new HDD, the master boot record was obviously gone berzerk, and none of the OS cmdline tools (fixmbr, ...) have made it run again. To recover from crash, I should in fact have bought a recovery tool BEFORE and installed it BEFORE I crashed, which is of course utterly stupid, In other words, the "grand public" computers have never been reliable, and I am afraid will never,
And I swallow a small raisin.
StephaneRodriguez wrote: but the fact that the OSes have no recovery tools is beyond my shame thresholds, You could do a Raid and have a cloned hdd for your backup. You can't leave everything to MS to do for you, then they wouldn't have time to work on the xbox. -Jack
If things are as bad as they can be, you can be sure there'll be a brighter tomarrow.
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StephaneRodriguez wrote: but the fact that the OSes have no recovery tools is beyond my shame thresholds, You could do a Raid and have a cloned hdd for your backup. You can't leave everything to MS to do for you, then they wouldn't have time to work on the xbox. -Jack
If things are as bad as they can be, you can be sure there'll be a brighter tomarrow.
I could have two cars, to make sure that I can take an alternative when the main car has a problem. Thus constraining myself with a useless car 99.99% of the time, and twice waste of money. Such a spirit reveals quite a lot about how you buy stuff. Whether that's your own or corporate money is not key. That's just sooooo bad! I guess that's time to get a little more pragmatic. If I cannot assume that when I buy an operating system, I actually buy an operating system - a system that lets me operate - then why should I buy it, and why should I call it an operating system any longer. It's much like windows is a game, not serious stuff. And for the name, then I would rather call it "windows system" because what it does 99% of the time is show windows. My 2 cents.
And I swallow a small raisin.
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Phew! I got home from work last night (Fri night), went to the PC (which was on) and tried to use it. Bah! Nothing. Turns out my HDD had crashed. So this morning I hunted down a new HDD, a OEM WinXP, and spent the rest of the morning installing all this. Not quite the way I had pictured spending my Saturday morning. I'm currently downloading the .NET SDK to reinstall. Wooo Hooo! It's finished. See ya!
Londo wrote: So this morning I hunted down a new HDD, a OEM WinXP, and spent the rest of the morning installing all this. Not quite the way I had pictured spending my Saturday morning. Ah.. it's a typcial "the arse has fallen out of my computer" saturday morning. YA can't beat those!!! :-) Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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I could have two cars, to make sure that I can take an alternative when the main car has a problem. Thus constraining myself with a useless car 99.99% of the time, and twice waste of money. Such a spirit reveals quite a lot about how you buy stuff. Whether that's your own or corporate money is not key. That's just sooooo bad! I guess that's time to get a little more pragmatic. If I cannot assume that when I buy an operating system, I actually buy an operating system - a system that lets me operate - then why should I buy it, and why should I call it an operating system any longer. It's much like windows is a game, not serious stuff. And for the name, then I would rather call it "windows system" because what it does 99% of the time is show windows. My 2 cents.
And I swallow a small raisin.
StephaneRodriguez wrote: I could have two cars, to make sure that I can take an alternative when the main car has a problem. Thus constraining myself with a useless car 99.99% of the time, and twice waste of money. Such a spirit reveals quite a lot about how you buy stuff. How do you propose they do a recovery tool that saves you from a hdd crash (which is what we are talking about here) without having a 2nd hdd? -Jack
If things are as bad as they can be, you can be sure there'll be a brighter tomarrow.